Wounding comparison

[throttleman]

Hello Veral,

I am wondering what to expect for wounding charachteristics and effectiveness from a hard cast 300 grain FPGC versus a 300 grain jacketed hollowpoint, both in .458 diameter and both in the 1600-1900 fps range.  I am planning on using them on deer.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Veral]

  The hardcast wound will depend entirely on how large the meplat is, and I'll give you my displacement velocity formula for calculating it in a minute. You can measure the meplat of the bullet you are planning to use and calculate the DV for yourself.  Bullet shape and design aren't factors, as the flat causes a spray of tissue which doesn't tough the sides of the bullet, and this spray is what makes the wound, whether the bullet is an expanding type or non-expanding.  i.e. A SWC shoulder never gets wet during penetration unless it nearly stops in the animal.
  First the jacketed hollow point.  It will expand to very large diameter and probably blow at least a 3-4 inch wound channel after the first 2 inches of penetration if start velocity is around 1600 fps, and at 1900 will remove about half the ribcage on the off side of an average deer.  If I were using heavy 45 cal JHP's I'd load at a velocity to try to get an impact speed of around 1200 fps max.

  My displacement velocity formula is:  Velocity times meplat width in thousandths of an inch divided by 4.  Ideal DV range for big game is 100 to 125,  130 at the very max for fastest kills.  At 100, wound diameter will average about 1 inch, at 125 it will be around 1 1/4 inch.  If the wound diameter is 1 1/2 inch or larger in diameter the animal will normally run like it's tail is afire for 50 to 150 yards before expiring, though the shot is centered in the vitals.  Yes even with a 4 inch diameter exit wound on a deer.  Many will drop instantly with large wounds, if nerve shock anchors them, but many will run violently because blood flow is slowed by too large a wound.
  If wound diameter is 3/4 inch, about 85 DV, kills can be instant if well placed but some run can be expected.  With a 70 DV, wounds will be about 1/2 to 5/8 inch.  VERY deadly if well placed in the vitals, but some run is quite certain.
 
 

[throttleman]

Thanks for the great information, Veral.

Jeff

[Veral]

  You and the world are welcome, Jeff.

  When calculating displacement velocity the numbers aren't exactly comapritive to wound diameter.  This because the calculated portion of the wound is from the meplat out.  i.e. A .4 meplat will produce a .2 larger wound than a .25 meplat, etc, etc,  Toughness of tissue varies depending on where an animal is hit, and the type of animal etc.  But internal organs seem to be pretty uniform among the varying animals, and that's the area where the formla addresses.  Muscle around the rib and shoullder area will wound a bit smaller than the vital organs internally. --  The bullet / load that punches a 1 inch or larger hole through big game, will vaporize a grouses body, especially if it was hatched that summer.

  Also of extreme importance for small game hunters.  If a flatnosed bullet is loaded down so it doesn't mess up the meat on rib shot rabbits and squirrls, but hits the shoulder joint going in, you have a mess with the extra and very large projectile which the joint becomes.  Ditto with head shots if the jaw bone is strick going in, in which case everything behind the bone  comes out at all angles and in tiny sizes!

  When calculating DV, don't think about how it changes with range.  The numbers were worked out over my 'normal' hit ranges, which will most likely be by close to yours, and may exceed yours, and mine now.  The experiance period was from 16 to 30 years ago, at which time I rarely missed a rabbit out to 100 yards, with a revolver.  I'm 65 now, and prefer to get into any competition.

[Bandito]

I have a 240 gr WLN style bullet shot at moderate velocity from a .33 Winchester. The gun is an 86 Winchester, made in 1906, with a replacement barrel. The wound channel in a six point whitetail I would guestimate at 3/8ths inch in and out of the upper shoulder. I would have thought that the exit wound would have been larger in appearance than the entry wound. The bullets came from Mt Baldy. I forgot, the shot was at 20 yards, and he went maybe 20 yards.  (maybe I need a 50-110?) I don't know the exact bullet hardness but it does not mark much with a fingernail. Was a wonderful hunt in the Ozark hills. What do you think about this meplat to wound channel comparison? Thanks and God Bless. Bandito

[ND Sharpshooter]

Gentlemen,

I used Veral's 225 grain 35 caliber cb cast of 3 to 1 wheel weights and linotype with the smaller nose to kill two deer this past week.  Both shots were at standing deer at 65-70 yards.  Rifle is Marlin 336 in 35 Remington.  Velocity is between 1400 and 1450 fps using 12 grains of Herco.  First deer taken in left shoulder and exiting behind right shoulder.  It ran about 15-20 feet and dropped.  It lost a lot of blood in those 15 feet.  The second one took the cb in the right shoulder and exited behind the left shoulder.  She ran 35 of my steps leaving a good blood trail as well.  Very little meat was bloodshot and there were no huge exit holes---maybe an inch at most. It all goes back to where you put the slug and how excited the deer is...neither of these were in any sort of hurry.  The first one knew I was there but the second one was totally unknowing being on the prowl for a buck, we think,  by the way she was acting and responding to my partner's grunting calls.  -30-

[Veral]

  I presume you were looking at the entrance and exit holes in the skin?  The place to look at wound size is through the vital organs and to some extent in muscle that isn't worked hard.  You quite clearly popped an inch or more hole throught he vitals to put the animal down, as 20 yards is a very short run for a 3/8 inch diameter wound channel.  Such a small wound almost has to pass through the heart and the animal not be spooked by the shot to go down that quickly.  Next time, study the organs that are chopped up and you'll get a better picture of what's happening.  I'm assuming here that your 'moderate' 33 winchester speed is at least 1400 fps, and probably closer to 1800 + fps.  At 1800 fps start velocity that bullet will punch at least a one inch hole through the vitals.