Author Topic: First time out with 22 hornet superlight (Read 1982 times)

aulrich · « **on:** November 13, 2006, 07:18:01 AM »

I finally got the superlight hornet out of lay away and give it a quick test drive this past weekend. And it did reasonably well, all I had time for was a quick sight in and a little mud clump shooting. I tried both winchester(gray box) and Hornady. I am not really good with v-notch sights so it's hard to tell at this point which load was more accurate. But both loads were plenty accurate to kill a coyote @ 100 2-3" so it is easily meeting the expectations I had for it with me shooting open sights.

I hauled it out one night deer hunting I tried some coyote calling on the hike in to my spot, nothing showed up. But on the hike out draging a whitetail doe I hardly noticed it was there, it is one compact package.

I had my one son try it and he managed to center shoot a gallon jug at ~40 Yards just shooting off his knee, he was itching to go deer hunting so he only tried it once. But in his bulky coat it was plain to see I'll need to get a youth stock, the long stock would be to clumsy.

I will be scoping it as well the v-notch would be OK for coyote hunting but it is just too course for shooting gophers. I was thinking I would use a rimfire scope they are a little lighter and the paralex setting should be well suited for the hornet, and it's not like the hornets recoil would damage it.

All in all a neat little gun.

shaner · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2006, 02:21:06 AM »

so if i read it right you took a deer with the hornet? if so how did it perform , on a larger animal , what bullet? distance? notto many use a hornet deer hunting you got my interests,

aulrich · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2006, 09:51:40 AM »

No my 270 took the doe, I just hauled the hornet along to shoot a coyote if the chance presended itself. 22 cal is illegal for biggame where I am.

shaner · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2006, 10:25:45 AM »

oh ok well i wondered i knew 22 cal was illegal most places, but it is ok in some iam told, just wondered,

Paul5388 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2006, 03:24:11 PM »

My neighbor used some reloads I made for him on a 125+ yard doe a couple of years ago. I'm pretty sure I used Lil'Gun and a Sierra 45 gr HP and I'm pretty sure it was a .223" Hornet bullet. A neck shot dropped her on the spot.

The Handis seem to shoot either one pretty well, but they don't want to shoot the Win and Rem 45-46 gr bullets as well. My super light barrel likes a 40 gr V-Max with Lil'Gun. I zapped another stinking pecan eating crow with that combination yesterday.

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2006, 06:12:27 PM »

I really like shooting the smaller CF 22's--I shoot 218 Bee, hornet, 22 jet and none of my guns shoot the Win or Rem 45-46 gn bullets worth a hoot.

I've had good luck with the Hornady 45gn "hp Bee" bullet in several guns though--I recommend it highly for splatter factor.

aulrich · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:19:17 AM »

Seirra only has 2 bullets in the .223 range and they are both SP's so my guess it is a .224. I have some bulk remy 45's and they are .223 the 46's in the winchester ammo seems to be as well.

There is no question lil'gun will be the first powder I try when I start reloading, hornets are supposed to be primer sensitive so i'll be giving both small rifle and small pistol a try. As for the head I am thinking the 45gr seirra spitzer, I ran some what if's and the heavier bullets carry the magic 400 ft/lbs (an arbitrary min energy for killing a coyote) a little further without giving up too much trajectory.

I went and mounted a scope on it it is just a 3-9 simmons 22mag but I should get a better idea of the actual accuracy. One thing is man is that weaver #82 a long base half of it is hanging in the air. Hopefully I can find an uncle mike's hammer extension though the scope is small enough that in a pinch I could go without.

Fred M · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:39:33 AM »

One thing you should do is to uniform the flash holes, drill them all the same size.
Find the largest hole and get a drill to suit that hole size. About 0.062". Uniformity is the name of the game, use only recommended standard primers.

Don't use CCI they are too hard for the Handi hammer spring, Federal and Winester primers are best for the Handi.

aulrich · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2006, 07:15:38 AM »

Fred that is a good point about the flash hole, if a round is known to be primer sensitive the flash holes should have the same sort of impact. Good thing I have a lyman flash hole tool. Would a primer pocket tool be useful here too?

Fred M · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2006, 08:06:24 AM »

Aulrich.
Yes the primer pocket depth is also important should be 0.125". I have a carbide K&M primer pocket uniformer tool that is driven with an electric screw driver I also use it to clean the pockets.

I don't know about a flash hole tool. I have all sorts of drill bits for this job. I use moly plated bullets and they need a bit more spark. For the 6PPC and 6x47 I drill all the flash holes 0.069". You will find that most flash holes in different brands will vary, some considerable.

You don't need to worry about the size too much as long as they are all the same.
Anywhere from 0.058 to 0.063 is ok. Try to use a powder that fills the case to the underside of the bullet. The Hornet is a nice plinker.

Nixter · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2006, 08:48:45 AM »

Fred, I have been using CCI small pistol primers in my H&R 22 Hornet and have had no issues with them.

What's the deal, should, I be looking for problems? Current load is a 35gr V-Max over a book load of Alliant 2400.

Just a newbie asking questions and would like some input. Round count with the CCI small pistol primers is low, am I just asking for trouble?

Nixter

Fred M · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2006, 09:24:53 AM »

Nixter.
Are small pistol primers specified for the Hornet? From what I know the Hornet uses small rifle primers. The small CCI rifle primers in my 6x47 did not ignite most of the time. Using a softer primer like the Fed or Win solved the problem.

If the pistol primers work for you, that is ok by me. Pistol and rifle primers are not the same for sure and are made with different parameters in mind. Why else would they make two different kinds? As I said to Aulrich use only standard recommended primers.

I am not the only one that had ignition trouble with small CCI rifle primers. No body in the BR clan will use them because they need a stronger firing pin spring.
Of course the stronger spring sets up more unwanted vibrations. There is no way to beef up the Handi hammer spring, when it gets soft you have to replace it.

aulrich · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2006, 10:48:52 AM »

I don't think there is any commercial data using the small pistol primers, pressure wise I don't think it is an issue A quick check and there are pistol rounds that work at the same pressure range, that is as long as it does not cause a wierd pressure spike. The idea has come from some articles and internet hearsay. But I was going to start with standard primers just to keep it simple.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2006, 10:56:08 AM »

Every reloading manual I have, Hodgdon, Lyman, Hornady, and IMR all call for small rifle primers.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2006, 12:16:19 PM »

Right Tim.
Is it perhaps that some people don't know the differenence between a rifle and a pistol?

A pistol primer is designed to ignite a powder charge with a fast spreading flame and is of short duration to help to burn most all of the powder in a short pistol barrel.

A rifle primer is designed to burn with a longer duration to burn powder even after it is in the barrel. The Mag rifle primer has an even longer and hotter burn rate, to ignite heavy deterant coated magnum powders for best combustion.

A rifle primer wil also generate less chamber pressure, compared to a pistol primer with any given load.

You guys, please use recommended loading components.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2006, 12:31:00 PM »

Accurate shows CCI 500 small pistol primers being used in their Hornet data.

Tim

http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/22Cal(5.56mm)/22%20Hornet%20pages%20177%20to%20178.pdf

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/html/products/primers/primer_chart.htm

Fred M · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2006, 01:01:35 PM »

That is why I ask the question above. Accurate are the only people that use pistol primers.

CCI does not recommend the 500 for rifle use.

Since Accurate has loading data recommending the 500 primer I say that is either OK or an error in Israel they might only have one kind?

. In the Hornet I guess it is mood point.

Me I would stick with standard small primers.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2006, 01:06:02 PM »

I guess there are some exceptions to everything, Accurate also recommends large rifle magnum primers in their 45-120 data.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2006, 04:02:11 PM »

Tim
There are many large rifle mag primer application. I use mag primers in my 25Hunter for extra cold weather uses. No it is not recommended unless you did extensive testing.

By the way I did the testing at 10F with Hodgdon Extream powder. The idea of it not being temperature sensitive is only applicable in a certain range. This year I hunted in 14F with the 25Hunter and the ammo worked flawless with mag sparks.

With the case vol and the expansion ratio of the 45-120 a mag primer is quite appropriate. Since that caliber is about as close as you can get to a magnum, specially in a strong action.

But we were talking about small pistol primers in rifles.

Would you not say we would be comparing apples with oranges.

I am wondering if anybody is really interested in my palaver.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2006, 04:05:44 PM »

Heh heh, more like apples and watermelons!!!

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:23:58 PM »

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. I love that one.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2006, 05:39:30 PM »

Fred,

I think some of the sports writers have written about using small pistol primers in the Hornet. They claim better accuracy, but I get just as good accuracy with CCI small rifle primers. Of course, I don't have any problems with CCI or I wouldn't use them! Come to think of it, I don't have anything other than CCI small rifle primers, except the Rem 6 1/2s I just bought last week.

hellacatcher · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2006, 01:45:16 AM »

Reloading for the hornet is the most fun I can have if I snezze wrong something changes. To make things worse every time I read something about it it is different from the last thing read.Can't rember withch one right now but one of my reload books recomends using a pistol primer with win. 296. It is a hair puller to load for and keep every thing the same. Small case and different primers and loads keep it fun. Now I have one more thing to try got to make sure the flash holes are all the same.

aulrich · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2006, 05:15:52 AM »

I tried to find my references but the only one I found so far was in my petloads manual but that was for light cast bullet loads so I don't think that counts. And actually since one of it's usages is as a coyote gun, cold weather ignition could be an issue if I used the pistol primer. If I find my references I'll post them but till then I'll keep with rifle primers.

Fred M · « **Reply #24 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:49:09 AM »

Paul 5388.
Forgot to mention that the small CCI primers I use are BR-4 Benchrest Primer.
Perhaps they might be harder? They misfired in my Viper action by Stiller.

Stiller advised to reverse the trigger hanger which improved ignition considerable by increasing the firing pin travel. But I reverted back to the factory hander setting and changed primers.

In the Handi these primer ignited sporadic. This could be the fault of a relaxed hammer spring. I replaced the hammer spring and changed primers, end of problem.

Exchanging rifle primers for pistol primers is not part of my handloading repertory.
Freezing temperatures will reduce the burning rate of just about any powder, and in my country it makes even more sense to use a primer with a good spark.

I know some BR experimenters have milled out small rifle primer seats and made them to suit large primers. It worked well under certain condition and powders.
More spark is rarely bad if the powder charge is compatible.

In a Hornet there is not enough powder to worry about a hot primer with a bonafied load. Ambient temperature is much more of a concern.

I really don't have anything else to add.

aulrich · « **Reply #25 on:** November 22, 2006, 12:37:22 PM »

All I'll add is hopfully a picture of a dead coyote or at least a report of how it shot with the scope on. I am heading out to fill my buck tags for the next few days (both mule and whitetail) the horrnet will make for a nice diversion if I am not forzen, by the weekend highs are supposed to be in the -20c range.

Paul5388 · « **Reply #26 on:** November 22, 2006, 04:44:35 PM »

Fred,

Obviously the ignition problems you may have, due to the cold weather, certainly aren't too much of a concern in East Texas!

I would have thought a BR primer would be softer, but I don't know that for a fact. Of course, I use CCI 400s in DA revolver loads (I shoot SA even with a DA) and don't have any problems there either. According to my old Speer #7, the energy is almost the same for the 400 and 500 primers. The major difference is cup hardness.

Fred M · « **Reply #27 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:20:49 PM »

Paul
Primer cup hardness that is it, with the CCI-4 I have. Yes things are much easier where it is warm all year round.

Like Aulrich I am heading out tomorrow to fill my last deer tag about 150miles north of here. The temperature for the next 4 days is going to be well below 0 F. or about -22C. Hope there is no wind blowing.

That blasted groundhog should have his hide taned, his forecast is pittyful.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:27:19 PM »

Good luck fellas!!

Tim

aulrich · « **Reply #29 on:** December 04, 2006, 05:16:14 AM »

Well the addition of the scope helped, groups ~1.25" wich I though was not too bad since the cross hars from the 22 scope covered a 1" circle @ 100 yards. Sorry still no dead coyotes actually yet.

And I finally found my proper reference to the use of pistol primers (I though I was going nuts). It was in the write-up of the 22 hornet in the pistol data of Nosler #5 (p501)

"Unlike many other calibers primer sensitivity is critical to accuracy in the Hornet. Even though the Hornet is a rifle cartridge, small pistol primers often provide the best accuracy. The handloader should try different brands of both small rifle/small pistol primers. Of course starting loads should be reduced when switching primers.""