Read and heed! Board Rules

[Double D]

Here are the rules of our board. Please follow them.

This board is for the making and shooting of blackpowder mortars and cannons that meet ATF's description of an antique or replica of an antique.  You will find Links to ATF's various descriptions in our FAQ's and references posted at the top of the board.

We as moderators will enforce this rule as we understand ATF's definition.  We are not Lawyers.  We are going to go with what we know and understand. This is for your protection as well as ours.  We do not want this forum to become the hunting grounds for rookie ATF Agents trying to make their reputation.  The Veterans aren’t going to bother us as they are to busy looking for real crooks.

That being said this is what we accept on this forum.

1.  Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition

and

2. Manufactured in or before 1898...or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898

or

3. Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

If you wish to provide us with a letter from ATF defining whatever other device you wish to discuss as an antique we will allow the discussion. Provide the letter first.   

We also are not going to have a debate over what the GCA  and NFA says or doesn't say.  There is already to much misinformation on the internet and we are not going to add to it.  Tim and I are not Lawyers and not qualified to give legal advice on the GCA or NFA. Please see your nearest U.S. Attorney for legal advice on the GCA or NFA.

These rules are not subject to debate.   

We did make the rules for the board and we are the experts on those rules and we are the final arbiter of them.

When Tim or I post a message that says this is or is not permitted that is the final decision, not subject to appeal. You might send us an off line message and tell us how you think what ever subject is being discussed fits within our rules, but we aren't interested in arguing.

WE will delete any post citing interpretations of the GCA and NFA so they don't become a source of misinformation. Exception, bona fide press releases or legal opinions from an accredited authority concerning our blackpowder cannons. Pointer post directing the reader to the actual law is allowed. This applies to state and local laws as well. Pointer post okay, interpretation no! 

Discuss cannons that meet the above rules, don't debate the worthiness of the law on our board.

Just as further point, we have always allowed shotgun blank signal guns, carbide cannons, toy cannons, firecracker and other such traditional noise makers as within the spirit of our board. We have also been directed to include Punt guns. They will continue to be allowed. The exotic and unsafe is not welcomed.

Stokes Mortar Stokes Bowling ball mortars previously were not allowed on this board. Based on a letter from ATF that ban is no longer in effect.  Letter posted in this post. Stokes Mortar

[Cat Whisperer]

Ditto.


There are places where you may interpret the law differently than us.  That's ok for you to do that.  The COURT's intrepretation may also be different than yours (or ours).

That is ONE of the reasons for us taking what may seem to be a rigid stand on this; it is better to err on the side of caution than find out differently from a judge.

[GGaskill]

A comment from a non-moderator:

If you are at all approaching the edges of the obviously permitted, the best approach is not developing a novel interpretation of the law/rules but writing a letter to the ATF asking for permission to do what you want to do, giving a complete explanation of what you want to do.  They will eventually reply with explanations of the law and examples that elaborate on their position so you can understand what they are allowing and what they won't allow.  The advantage of this process is you end up with a document saying that they have explicitly permitted whatever they have permitted and you can wave a copy of this at any ambitious agent who may try to exercise some "enforcement" upon you.

[Double D]

In order to preserve the character of this forum (of being safe, legal, fun and polite) I am taking some liberties (responsibilities) in editing.

In the past, the character of the forum has been well maintained by those participating.  A need has arisen for some corrections to be taken.

I will in the future take this responsibility in a more timely fashion if it is needed at all, up until now it has not been.
 
DD & I have worked for 2-1/2 years at fostering an open forum with free-flowing discussion and the encouragement of the development of skills and knowledge in the use of cannons and mortars.  A high level of politeness and respect is necessary for that.  To that end you will find where I have ripped out remarks, passages and/or posts.

The following remarks will be left in explanation.

[argumentative/inflammatory remark(s) deleted by CW/DD]
This means: donÂ’t argue - present an alternative view in a more polite fashion; donÂ’t take cheap shots at otherÂ’s character.  This includes use of language.

[off-topic remark deleted by CW/DD]
IÂ’m very tolerant about off topic, until it gets out of the scope of this forum - specifically such firearms/devices that regulated BATF.  References to such devices are necessary and helpful in comparison and explanation of pre-1899 mortars and cannons and are welcome.

[SPELLING correct by CW/DD]
You will NEVER see this used.  YouÂ’re on your own, do your own spell check.

Continued postings of disparaging remarks will result in actions by Graybeard - [take a look at his rules of the board:  ] http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/gbo/gbo-tos.php .

Should you disagree with my editing the proper place for you to respond is by PM.

This is GraybeardÂ’s board.  We are ALL guests (or sponsors) here.  Need I say more?  I will say more.  Thanks to all of you who have made this forum what it is!

Respectfully,
CW

[Double D]

One other word of warning.  Should CW or myself be forced to edit a remark or post and you chose to argue our decision on line or repost the edited remark or post, your entire post will be deleted and we will ask Graybeard to look into banning you from our forum.

We also may delete your remarks and send you a PM and ask you to rephrase and repost them.  That you can do.

We will be more than glad to to discuss our actions in a PM off line, but just because it's private and off line doesn't mean we will accept rudeness directed at us. 

Remember if you wish to contest our moderating, you want to win us over, not insult us.

[Double D]

We had some reoccurring issues over the past year that need addressed.

Language.

 GBO is a family board. Anything you post here should be fit to say to your kids and your Grandmother. If not, don’t post it. Certain words and phrases have been banned.  The banned word or phrases if entered in a post will show as some other acceptable word, phrase, (censored word) or asterisks.  Do not post alternative spellings or formatting to avoid the banned word list.  Find a better word or accept the banned word list alternative.  If I find you are trying to use alternative spellings or formatting to convey the banned word I will remove your post and let Graybeard deal with you.

Flaming

Name calling, ribbing, teasing, chain pulling are only fun if both parties agree to the fun.  But it also could be considered trolling and flaming which is prohibited conduct on GBO and can get you banned.  It is too easily misunderstood and can be offensive.  We don’t need it.

What to do if you feel you are a victim of flaming?

On the bottom right of every post is an icon to report the post to the Moderator.  When you click on this button a small window opens so you can report the post.  The window is small but you can actually type quite a bit of information in the window. If you click on the window, tell us specifically what the problem is.  No threats or innuendos, we aren’t interested. Don’t respond to the post if you report the post.  If you do respond do not retaliate.  Do not flame back.  Reported post messages go to both board moderators, all Global Moderators and all Administrators by email notification. Any of them are likely to respond. Most are more likely to let the board moderators handle the problems. But any of them can deal with the issue.

If there is someone who just rubs you the wrong way, you can ignore them.  Under everyone’s user name is an ignore button. Just click on this button and you will never see that persons post.  A word of fair warning, if you put someone on ignore and we catch you responding to their post, you will be banned.

If someone flames you, do not retaliate.  Report the post or put the person on ignore.  If you retaliate you will be subject to banning also.  If you wish to argue back and forth, or call some one out go find a school yard or a back alley, but take it away from this board. We will not referee or mediate. We will just remove your post and perhaps you.

Links.

In all the years I have been on the internet there is no subject that creates greater angst.  I get more complaints on this than any other subject; on this board and the others I moderate.  It is a complaint that constantly crops up.

The internet is just chock full of good information and this board is a good place to share that information.  We all don’t have high speed internet connection with wide screen HDTV monitors and high speed super computers.   Some folk have old computers, dial up connection and square CRT monitors, and old eyes and old computer skills.  It’s tough enough to load GBO and view it with that equipment.  To open links to get additional information especially when you don’t know what is in the link is asking too much.  Especially annoying is a post that has a topic title and a link and nothing else. So show a little common respect for others on the board.

From now on, I am going to insist on this simple bit of courtesy.  When you make a post with a link, include a simple synopsis of what is contained in the link so those with older equipment can decide before they click, if a click is worth the wait.  Any post with just a link and no explanation is going to be removed.  

Computer security people will also tell you to never click on a link, if you do not know what it is.

If you are posting a link to your photo album, post a couple of key pictures from the album and then the link.  That will also help people decide if they want to view the album.  Any photo links that are posted as a link and not an image will be converted to an image if possible.  If you post a photo link and don’t want it posted as an image say why in your post.

 If you start a discussion on another forum and post link to that discussion here and don’t explain to us what the discussion is about and why you didn’t post the discussion here also, the post will be removed. I know sometimes discussion starts out and you may not think it of interest and then as the discussion evolves you think of us.  That’s okay, but show some basic courtesy and tell us what is in the discussion.  These types of post are not looked at in a good light.  If the discussion is not good enough to be posted here, don’t link it here.