Author Topic: .223 barrel to .250 Savage? (Read 2403 times)

CouchTater · « **on:** December 13, 2006, 09:16:07 AM »

Rather than trod down the well-worn path of .243 Winnie for a varmint/deer cartridge, after reading a bunch and messing around with ballistics software a bit, I concluded that the .250 Savage is pretty close to ideal for hunters east of the Mississippi. New brass is readily available, bullet support is excellent including premiums, no handloading peculiarities (given a fast enough twist rate for 120 grainers) according to the writers. Lots of varmint bullets at 75 grains, lots of deer bullets from 100-120 grains.

Of course, NEF doesn't chamber for it, and I'm guessing that rechambering a .25-06 barrel down to the little Savage case wouldn't leave much barrel! So the next step would be to get a donor barrel, rebore to .257", then rechamber for the Savage. It looks to me like the .223 would be the way to go; plenty of bore "meat" for drilling and rifling, and if I'm reading the case dimension drawings correctly the breech end wouldn't have to be turned off, simply run the breech over the reamer.

Has anyone done this? Any reason to not do this?

45/70fan · « **Reply #1 on:** December 13, 2006, 09:31:30 AM »

Why not just rebore a 22-250 barrel. The 22-250 is made by necking down a 250-3000(Savage) case.

Datil · « **Reply #2 on:** December 13, 2006, 10:00:31 AM »

First off You can not use 25-06 barrel camber is to large, Possible boting
22-250 might work. 223 can be done. I just had a 223 reamed and camber
to a 25-35 Win. changed ejecter tp a 30-30 Win. Work great, cost bundle,
But my money and I wanted it. Marv.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #3 on:** December 13, 2006, 06:58:19 PM »

Quote from: CouchTater on December 13, 2006, 09:16:07 AM

Rather than trod down the well-worn path of .243 Winnie for a varmint/deer cartridge, after reading a bunch and messing around with ballistics software a bit, I concluded that the .250 Savage is pretty close to ideal for hunters east of the Mississippi. New brass is readily available, bullet support is excellent including premiums, no handloading peculiarities (given a fast enough twist rate for 120 grainers) according to the writers. Lots of varmint bullets at 75 grains, lots of deer bullets from 100-120 grains.

Of course, NEF doesn't chamber for it, and I'm guessing that rechambering a .25-06 barrel down to the little Savage case wouldn't leave much barrel! So the next step would be to get a donor barrel, rebore to .257", then rechamber for the Savage. It looks to me like the .223 would be the way to go; plenty of bore "meat" for drilling and rifling, and if I'm reading the case dimension drawings correctly the breech end wouldn't have to be turned off, simply run the breech over the reamer.

Has anyone done this? Any reason to not do this?

I believe Fred M re-did a 223 Bull barrel to 257 Roberts...but I haven't heard of anyone doing a 250 Savage..It should work just fine for a nice mild 25cal rifle..

Mac

Fred M · « **Reply #4 on:** December 13, 2006, 08:24:01 PM »

No trouble doing a 250 Sav. But I would not use a 22-250, I use the 223 and start with a brand new chamber instead of reaming into an existing 22-250 chamber, which may or may not be compatable. Why take chance, cost is the same.

I did a 257 Roberts from a 24" 223 bull barrel which I lightened by milling it octagon, very nice cartridge and very accurate with a 1-10" twist. 3150ft with a 100gr bullet at about 54kpsi.

45/70fan · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2006, 07:53:32 AM »

I sent an email to Wayne York asking which barrel would be better to use and how much it would cost. I've been wanting something different and this sounds interesting. I'll post the reply when I get it.

Hunternz · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2006, 07:57:41 AM »

Please go ahead with this conversion and let me know how it goes, 250 savage is one of my favourite catridges and I currently have the dies sitting in my cuboard not being used, because I sold my 250savage boltaction to by my Handi .243 superlight,
Regards Howard.

CouchTater · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2006, 11:58:32 AM »

Quote from: Fred M on December 13, 2006, 08:24:01 PM

I did a 257 Roberts from a 24" 223 bull barrel which I lightened by milling it octagon, very nice cartridge and very accurate with a 1-10" twist. 3150ft with a 100gr bullet at about 54kpsi.

Excellent. How did you throat the thing? Since a single-shot doesn't need to feed from a short action mag, COL can be whatever, and from what I've read the Roberts really cries out for longer COL with the 120s. I puttered around some more, and have concluded that a .250 or .257 could do everything I want with two loads; a 75 or 85 grain varmint bullet at pretty mild velocities, and a 120 Partition at 2700-2800 fps.

Another question; what are the real weights of various Handi-Rifles, and where is the weight coming from? Their website pretty much says "7 lbs" regardless of barrel length, bore size, stock material, etc. Unless their wood is lignum vitae I have a hard time believing a Handi-Rifle with a 22" barrel runs 7 lb.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2006, 01:05:31 PM »

Here are some weights for ya, weighed on a spring diet scale, so it's not precise, but close.

Syn Monte Carlo stock = 1lb-5oz

Wood MC stock = 1lb-10oz

Wood MC stock with SB2 frame = 3lbs

22" .270 barrel with scope rail = 3lb-13oz

Tim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2006, 02:07:09 PM »

I'm not sure a 22-250 would work looking at cartridge drawings. It seems there are issues with Shoulder angles. Don't markmy word on this as I am no expert.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2006, 02:27:47 PM »

To me, for all intents and purposes, they're almost identical!!

Tim

billy_56081 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2006, 02:35:03 PM »

LIke I said Quick I'm no expert. IT sure looks like it would be a neat little gun.

Fred M · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2006, 03:21:07 PM »

Tim.
Quote.
To me, for all intents and purposes, they're almost identical!!

They are the same, except for the neck. But very rarely you find two reamers the same. Especially after they were sharpened. In a sloppy 22-250 chamber you just make a mess running a 250 savage reamer into poor chamber with no chance to correct head space if it was needed.

But then some guys don't care the just run in a neck reamer and let it go at that and run in a throater. Each with its own ill fitting pilot perhaps. Indexed on an off center chamber or a crooked chamber from the very start.

If you going to make a custom rifle with a custom cut rifled bore then a fine all new custom chamber is in order. That is my point. H&R chambers are not known to be of the best quality at least not the three that I checked.

CouchTater · « **Reply #13 on:** December 15, 2006, 02:41:15 AM »

Thanks Tim. That must be one massive barrel, at 3 and 3/4 pounds.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** December 15, 2006, 05:55:22 AM »

CT, it's just a standard contour .270 barrel, they are stout, a bull barrel would be heavier as they have less taper.

Thanks Fred, if I had some cerrosafe, I'd do a .22-250 chamber cast, but I sent it to a friend to borrow.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:33:45 AM »

Tim
No point wasting your time, unless you can set back the 22-250 barrel it wont work since the 22-250 has a 28deg shoulder and 250 Sav has a 26.5 deg shoulder.

This means you have to ream enough to get a 26.5 deg shoulder and that would create extra head space. If you left it as is then the 250 dies would not be able to set the shoulder back without wrecking the fire formed 28 deg shoulder.

Go with the 223 for sure like I said, I forgot to mention the shoulder, I thought they were the same. I go with 0.100" free bore.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:41:08 AM »

Thanks Fred, I was just interested in how close the H&R chamber was to spec out of curiosity

Tim

45/70fan · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:44:03 AM »

Fred, what about making it a 250 IMP? I would suspect anyone wanting a 250 would reload anyway so store bought ammo wouldn't be an issue. RCBS probably makes dies.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2006, 08:53:07 AM »

RCBS makes the .250 Savage Improved die set, they're special order @ $127!

It would probably be less expensive to have a .250 Savage die set reamed at the same time as the barrel was made, an RCBS die set is only $26, Redding $40.

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2006, 09:45:12 AM »

The 250 Sav Imp or AI is perhaps one of the most improved cartridges. It is simply outstanding. Just look at the performance of my 25 Hunter, alas it operates at 65kpsi with max loads. Ok for the Rem 700 action but not for a Handi.

If you were doing a bolt action I would say go for it. Not so with a Handi your best bet is the straight 250 Sav. It is a fine cartridge in it own right. Buy a supply of new 250Sav brass and shoot it. Or do as I did and go for the 257R which uses a tad more powder.

One of the big reasons going for an Imp or AI is long case life. Due to the elastic action stretch in a Handi case life is only about 8 reloads. Fire forming for only 8 uses is not too economical besides it is work.

You have to weigh the performance against limited case life. Besides you would not want to load the 250AI to its full potential in a Handi. Again you should start with a 223 Handi barrel for a good chamber.

I had thought about the 250AI but rejected it for the above reasons. I went for the 257 Roberts because I can get the velocity I wanted at a more reasonable pressure because of the extra case volume.

All this circles around the Handi frame. One other reason for the 257 is I can make brass from 06 and 270 which allow me to use the extra neck wall thickness to neck turn a fitted neck.

Even at that I shot the lock up loose twice already. So the idea is think before you drink.

45/70fan · « **Reply #20 on:** December 16, 2006, 02:07:49 AM »

WAYNE YORKS REPLY.......

A 22-250 barrel can be rebored to 250 Savage. The only chamber work
required is a new neck and throat. The 22-250 is a better choice
because I don't have to modify the ejector after Reboring.

The cost is $250, plus shipping, if you send during December. After
December the price goes back up to $275, plus shipping

Fred M · « **Reply #21 on:** December 16, 2006, 06:09:50 AM »

WAYNE YORKS REPLY.......
See above.

I am very surprised he say something like that, he would never get any work from me, if he does not know the difference in shoulder angle, and the difference in shoulder to body junction.

mt3030 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 16, 2006, 12:54:45 PM »

Fred:
I agree. I think he has missed something. As long as you have to mess with the chamber at all, just do the complete job. Then you know all dimensions are correct. And the ejector on a 223 is already the correct type for the 250. Just open it like you do going from the 30-30 to the 30-40. That is a simple job. Looks to me like he is trying to cut corners.

Fred M · « **Reply #23 on:** December 16, 2006, 02:49:12 PM »

Thanks mt3030.
I addressed all the problems I could see above.

Here is what I said before.

But then some guys don't care they just run in a neck reamer and let it go at that and then run in a throater. Each with its own ill fitting pilot perhaps. Indexed on an off center chamber or a crooked chamber from the very start.

If you going to make a custom rifle with a custom cut rifled bore then a fine all new custom chamber is in order. That is my point. H&R chambers are not known to be of the best quality at least not the three that I checked.

I guess the idea is if you have to work on a cheap gun no point wasting good expensive work on it.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 16, 2006, 02:52:34 PM »

I talked with Wayne this Afternoon...and he said he was sending a correction out ASAP...So...this should let you know he's on top of it..

Quote

This is a correction to my previous email. I checked chamber dimensions
after I responded to your email and noticed that the .22-250 case has a
different shoulder than the .250 Savage. Thus, I would not be able to
properly chamber a 250 Savage from a .22-250 chamber.

I could cut a .250 Savage Imp chamber in a Handi Rifle. Of course, you
would have to fire form brass. Putting an improved chamber in any
non-threaded barrel poses unique problems since the barrel cannot be set
back. If I were going to make a .25 caliber cartridge out of a .250 Savage,
I would recommend .257 Roberts or a Wildcat like the .257-308.

Sorry for the confusion. If you have any questions, please let me know.

Wayne

Hope this clears up any confusion...to his ability...for those in doubt of it...

Mac

mt3030 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:38:47 PM »

Mac:
Thank you for the update.
Wally