Author Topic: handi pistol  (Read 1234 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jlbeebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
handi pistol
« on: December 19, 2006, 04:33:36 AM »
Anybody ever wonder why h&r doesn't make a pistol with the handi frame the way thompson center does? If they did I would be on the waiting list to buy one.

Offline Mac11700

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (34)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6875
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 04:42:05 AM »
Anybody ever wonder why h&r doesn't make a pistol with the handi frame the way thompson center does? If they did I would be on the waiting list to buy one.

Lots of folks would...Call the company and tell them...The more that call...the more they will take notice...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Graybeard

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (69)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26942
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 04:43:09 AM »
Because they would be in violation of Federal law. You cannot make a handgun from a rifle, the TC was FIRST a handgun then a rifle. That's legal but not the other way around.


Bill aka the Graybeard
President, Graybeard Outdoor Enterprises
256-435-1125

I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life!

Offline TheCrowkiller

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 23
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 06:11:49 AM »
How do people own AR-15 pistols or AK type pistols? They were both designed as rifles. You cannot convert an existing rifle to a handgun, but if the receiver has never "been" a rifle, then ?

I think a Handi Pistol would sell like crazy.

Offline myarmor

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3239
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 06:32:38 AM »
What about a very small redesign...like what they did to the Sidekick from the Huntsman? Just enough to be enough to avoid the red tape.. ???  Savage managed to get around it with the Striker series.
A bilky single shot hunting handgun, like a TC, is hardly a weapon of choice for any gang member for assult, but then again try convincing the Gov of that.

I agree, they would sale like hotcakes. And give NEF/H&R a boost. Perhaps enough one day for Marlin to  help out some more.



-Aaron

Offline kid_couteau

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 444
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 06:35:59 AM »
Shoot I would love one.

They would probably have to design a new receiver to accomodate a good and comfortable pistol grip but it could all be the same up front where the barrels attach.

New receiver manufactured as a handgun receiver no worries about laws as far as I know.

By making a new handgun only receiver it would be incapable of taking long gun stocks but could still accomodate the shotgun and rifle barrels which to my knowledge is legal as long as it is over 26" for shotgun.

Later
Kid

Offline mt3030

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 07:14:35 AM »
$$$$$$$$: We live in a capitalist world. If the bean counters felt there was a profit to be made, it would have already been done. But.. getting started so late in the game, where competiion is so stiff for such a specialized market segment, cost of tooling (to manufacture that unique frame which would not allow rifle stocks), acquiring needed licensing, etc, etc.

No, I don't think we will ever see it. Just enjoy our Handis for what they are, a great single shot rifle. And go buy the TC (S&W) handgun of your choise.

The start up and manufacturing costs would probably force the Handi Handgun to cost as much as the TC models.  And I find the TCs to be excellant handguns, with very few, if any, problems and nice features. And that goes for their carbines also. (I especially like my 7-30 Waters.)
Great Falls, Montana
_________________
NRA Life Member
Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Ducks Unlimited

Deceased 6/2/2007

Offline jgalar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1231
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 08:00:30 AM »
Also, why did they drop the NEF and H&R revolvers when Marlin took over? Massachuesetts(spl) is a very anti-gun, I wonder if part of the merger/buyout/takeover agreement stated that they were not allowed to produce handguns??? I would think there is a market for both the single shot and the return of the H&R revolvers. I think there is more than just bean counter decisions going on.

Offline handi243

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (53)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 08:55:10 AM »
Send the Government $200.00 and set back and wait then get your hacksaw ready yes you will have that extra money in it but you may be the only person with a HANDI PISTOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline kid_couteau

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 444
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 09:57:41 AM »
Question:

If you followed all ATF and Federal laws, paid the tax and got the approval and the tax stamp.

Would you be able to cut down other barrels for that one approved receiver or would you be stuck with only one per tax stamp?

Offline jlbeebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »
Because they would be in violation of Federal law. You cannot make a handgun from a rifle, the TC was FIRST a handgun then a rifle. That's legal but not the other way around.
I got curious about this as a project and sent an E-mail to the batf. They said if you could get nef to sell you a reciever BEFORE it has been used to make a rifle you can legally make a pistol with it. If you apply for a permit to the batf with your sheriffs blessing and pay 200.00 you can cut down a rifle. This would lead me to believe if they used new frames it would be legal to make pistols. I will try to post the E-mail I got from the batf.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 11:36:23 AM »
I'm pretty sure that won't work since H&R won't sell to just anyone, they only sell to distributors like Sports South, and then only complete rifles, they do sell some parts, but not frames, as far as I know.

Tim
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline kennyd

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 528
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2006, 02:08:24 PM »
Doesn't the frame have to carry the serial number, hence is the gun in the eyes of the law.  So a frame would have a serial number asssigned to a rifle.  You could get a regular pistol or revolver, TC, or remember the handi is already really short.
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they are not watching you

Offline Ditchdigger

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1385
  • Gender: Male
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2006, 02:08:25 PM »
Hey the Handi pistol sounds like a great idea,that way you have the action far enough from your head and the action opens it'll throw the brass over your head instead of between your eyes. ::) ::) ::) ::) Digger
Rest in Peace Old Friend July 2017

Offline jlbeebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2006, 04:56:47 PM »
Here is the E-mail I recieved from the batf:Thank you for visiting ATF's Website. As stated on our site, generally, we do not answer technical questions via e-mail, but I contacted our Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) and was advised the following:

"If you begin your project with a New England Firearms Handi-Rifle rifle frame that has never been made into a rifle, then the frame is neither a pistol nor a rifle frame.  At that point, the frame may be legally manufactured into either a pistol or a rifle.  If at any time the frame was made into a rifle, the following procedures must be followed:

As you may be aware, the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a), defines the term "firearm" to include the following:

....(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921); and (8) a destructive device.  The term "firearm" shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the...[U.S. Attorney General]...finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

Certain categories of firearms are subject to registration and tax provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.  As defined in the NFA, Section 5845(a)(4), the term "firearm" means, "a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length."  It is unlawful for a person to make or possess such a firearm that is not registered to such person in accordance with the provisions of the NFA. 

Making a New England Firearms Handi-Rifle rifle into a handgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length would constitute the making of a weapon from a rifle and, therefore, production of a "firearm" as defined in the NFA. In order for you to make a single shot handgun from a New England Firearms Handi-Rifle frame, you need to submit a completed ATF Form 1 - Application to Make and Register a Firearm with the National Firearms Act Branch (NFA), 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, WV 25405.  The application must include a set of your fingerprints, your photograph, $200.00, and you must have the local chief law enforcement official certify that he/she has no information that you will use the firearm for unlawful purposes and that the making and possession of the firearm is not in violation of State law.  You must also answer the questions on the form about being a prohibited person.  Upon confirmation of registration of the weapon with NFA, you may then make a single shot handgun using a New England Firearms Handi-Rifle.

Also, we advise that you contact local authorities to determine if there are any State laws or local ordinances affecting this conversion."

If you have any further questions, please call them on 304-260-1700. Regards,

Offline jbtazgrabber

  • Trade Count: (20)
  • A Real Regular
  • ****
  • Posts: 749
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2006, 08:05:53 PM »
ok ill get in here .....h&r did make shotgun pistol years ago till the 68 gun act made them illegal to own.....since the name is the same couldnt they ,<h&r> come out with a politically correct one again???????jb

Offline jlbeebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2006, 09:02:33 PM »
I would think they could make a pistol with the handi frame if they wanted to. Mabe they don't see enough money in it. I sent them an e-mail asking them why they don't. I will post what they tell me.

Offline jlbeebe

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 102
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2006, 04:53:45 PM »
Here is the reply I got back from H&R:

"At This time we do not have the capacity or manufacturing space to take on a lot of different lines we try to manufacture what we have the most calling for from dealers and distributors  I will pass your info along to the proper people for you"

 
It sounds to me like are willing to listen if they hear from enough people.




Offline gimphunter

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 81
Re: handi pistol
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2006, 06:15:59 PM »
If they wanted to, they could do as TC has done (and won the right in court to do) and sell handgun and long gun barrels and stocks, and leave it up to the end user not to make an illlegal combination of stocks and barrels. In that case, it would not matter if the frame was born as a handgun or long gun.