Author Topic: brass stretching/reloading/question  (Read 4759 times)

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Offline Dave Allen

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brass stretching/reloading/question
« on: January 29, 2007, 03:51:31 PM »
hello...brass stretch's of course...my question in particular is about my 22-250 handi...i resized all my once shot brass & using a stoney point headspace guage as a tool set my resizing die to bump the shoulder's back a few thousand's anyway thing's were great then i noticed on my third resize my rifle started popping open again...after re-measuring my shoulder's it seem's the shoulder's are bumping themsleve's out ?? by a few thousand's..i think that reading caliper's it would be fairly easy to be a bit off ?? yet i would think that once my die is set it would continue to set the shoulder at the same spot everytime ?? perhap's there's slop in the chamber ?? who know's...my brass is not over suggested max case length...i may just need to f.l. resize...no biggie...the latch & shelf are clean...any input is appreciated !!!

Offline Mac11700

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Re: brass stretching/reloading/question
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2007, 07:47:08 AM »
hello...brass stretch's of course...my question in particular is about my 22-250 handi...i resized all my once shot brass & using a stoney point headspace guage as a tool set my resizing die to bump the shoulder's back a few thousand's anyway thing's were great then i noticed on my third resize my rifle started popping open again...after re-measuring my shoulder's it seem's the shoulder's are bumping themsleve's out ?? by a few thousand's..i think that reading caliper's it would be fairly easy to be a bit off ?? yet i would think that once my die is set it would continue to set the shoulder at the same spot everytime ?? perhap's there's slop in the chamber ?? who know's...my brass is not over suggested max case length...i may just need to f.l. resize...no biggie...the latch & shelf are clean...any input is appreciated !!!



Dave...

Normally once your dies are set..they usually stay put...but some..namely the Lee dies can move on ya when taking them in and out of the press...

As too the popping open...if the cases aren't sized correctly..this can cause you problems..and undersizing the brass will increase the head space and will cause problems in a Handi..If your loading your cases for different rifles...then you'll set them to work in all rifles with a little head space...but if just loading for 1 rifle..set them to be flush with the chamber edge or to your frame barrel gap on 1x fired brass..You will have to bump the shoulder back after a couple of firings with the latter....but this way you'll have the best fitting brass for your particular chamber..You can try a little experiment...and see which produces the best results..Do it with your fired brass..or with factory loaded ammo...Sort thru them and separate each into 3 groups..those that sit below the chamber mouth ( excessive head space) Those that sit flush ( normal head space) Those that are above the chamber mouth and fitted to your frame barrel gap ( zero head space )..When dealing with the latter...you have to make sure your primers are seated correctly...and not protruding above the case..Fire at least 5 rounds of each..dry brushing & patching out between each group..and measure your groups...and your brass...Those that are fitted correctly to your rifle..should  produce the best groups...those that are below flush usually will produce the worst groups.. If your expander is too tight on your sizing die..it can distort your brass when you pull it out of the case..Make sure your case necks inside have a good lubricant on them to help during reloading..

All brass flows from the web..and will flow towards the shoulder and neck and the less it stretches rearward..the better the results will be..It is easier on your brass...and easier on your rifle...While some may feel the Handi's weak receiver will flex open on firing...I have only found improperly fitted barrels to cause this..I learned how to set up my dies from talking with Bob Merkure at Redding...He was a great help to me getting my Handis to shoot as good as they do...You might want to give him a call...Phone (607) 753-3331

Another route..is to have a set of custom dies built for your chamber...one I am going to be doing for a couple of different calibers I will be shooting a-lot...Hornady..makes some good ones...and are about the cheapest..others...like Neil Jones..makes some that are probably the best you can get anywhere ..and will be trying when he gets back from Florida in April...He isn't cheap...but..does make some of the best..http://www.neiljones.com/html/full_length_sizing_dies.html

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Dave Allen

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Re: brass stretching/reloading/question
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2007, 03:49:25 PM »
hello...mac i know we have covered this topic before...yet i'm as usual a slow learner...i'm not sure what undersizing brass means by definition...to me it mean's pushing the shoulder to far toward's the head ?? creating slop in the chamber ?? it seem's to me my shoulder's are growing outward's in other word's towards the end of the chamber...after measuring my once fired brass i had a reading of 2.570 after setting the die to size at 2.566-2.567 i was done & everything worked well...then after a few firing's... i started the pop open's...i measured again & i'm getting measurment's...of 2.573-2.574 ect...i thinking there could be some of a fudge factor in measuring skill's that's why i'm trying to give myself 0.003 or 0.004 figuring i'm close to neck sizing...i hold my brass to a bright light & make sure everything is flush...when you mention bumping the shoulder back after a few firing's  i'm assuming you make a slight die adjustment to push the shoulder toward's the head ?? sorry to be a pain...again...wouldn't it be easier just to shoot factory or in my case if i lack the comprehension skill's i'll just f.l. resize !! just funnin...it's all good...EDIT---i'm thinking undersize is just that i may not be sizing enough ?? that maybe due to the long throat's of handi's my shoulder's may be sticking to far forward ?? i just chambered a fired round & the case head stick's out slightly from the end of the barrel so i will push the shoulder in enough that i will be flush or ever so slightly protruding...maybe i should use a feeler gauge to measure how much my case head is protruding...i'm using redding die's...

Offline Mac11700

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Re: brass stretching/reloading/question
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 07:25:24 PM »
hello...mac i know we have covered this topic before...yet i'm as usual a slow learner...i'm not sure what undersizing brass means by definition...to me it mean's pushing the shoulder to far toward's the head ?? creating slop in the chamber ?? it seem's to me my shoulder's are growing outward's in other word's towards the end of the chamber...after measuring my once fired brass i had a reading of 2.570 after setting the die to size at 2.566-2.567 i was done & everything worked well...then after a few firing's... i started the pop open's...i measured again & i'm getting measurment's...of 2.573-2.574 ect...i thinking there could be some of a fudge factor in measuring skill's that's why i'm trying to give myself 0.003 or 0.004 figuring i'm close to neck sizing...i hold my brass to a bright light & make sure everything is flush...when you mention bumping the shoulder back after a few firing's  i'm assuming you make a slight die adjustment to push the shoulder toward's the head ?? sorry to be a pain...again...wouldn't it be easier just to shoot factory or in my case if i lack the comprehension skill's i'll just f.l. resize !! just funnin...it's all good...EDIT---i'm thinking undersize is just that i may not be sizing enough ?? that maybe due to the long throat's of handi's my shoulder's may be sticking to far forward ?? i just chambered a fired round & the case head stick's out slightly from the end of the barrel so i will push the shoulder in enough that i will be flush or ever so slightly protruding...maybe i should use a feeler gauge to measure how much my case head is protruding...i'm using redding die's...

Dave...

Not all dies are made the same...What I mean is just as it sound...What I mean is you might sizing the cases (all over) to much...and making them too small for a proper fit in your chamber...When using full length sizing dies..it is quite possible to squeeze the case too much in the body too...Which is why there are many different brands of dies...that do different things...I've had many different die sets before that sized them down too much and was cut wrong......Pushing the shoulder back towards the case head..means your increasing your headspace...which is measure from a point on the shoulder to the breech face of the receiver..

Your throat length has nothing to do with the shoulder...and yes...it is quite possible your chamber dimensions are off...The only way you will know this is to make a chamber cast...and them measure it...You will be able to see the over all dimensions of your chamber and throat...and know exactly how long you brass can grow before having to trim it back...you will see exactly how much head space your cartridge has and how to set your dies accordingly...There's nothing better than being able to have a mirror image of your chamber and throat in your hand to see & to measure... which is why I have said to do this.... you really need to find out how much you need to size them...otherwise your just guessing at it.Give Bob a call at Redding with the number I posted...

Mac
You can cry me a river... but...build me a bridge and then get over it...

Offline Dave Allen

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Re: brass stretching/reloading/question
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2007, 03:51:14 AM »
thank's for the help mac...i think i'm finally pickin up what your throwin down !! ha..ha..joke !! seriously i think i'm getting it now...that being said i appreciate the help you & quick have given me...you guy's put a lot of time in on this forum...good day.