.30-30 Bullets on Deer

[RickC.]

OK, the deer season's over now and I can experiment with loads again.

 Today I took the .30-30 to the range for its first session with Choate stock and forend-- excellent results with the 130 Hdy and 125 Ballistic Tips.

 The charge I settled on for both of these bullets is a max IMR book charge of 3031, gives 2653 for the 130, 2672 (both avg) for the 125.  I've only killed one deer with the .30-30, using the Hornady at just over 200 yds.  The bullet took out 4 ribs in a straight line and took out the front shoulder-- probably the worst shot I've ever made on a deer and I had a not-fun tracking job, but I did recover the 5 point.  (I had set up to watch two trails roughly 80 yards away and the deer didn't read the script and walked out waaayyy down there....).

 When I was first working up loads for this rifle I tried 150 gr Ballistic Tips (and I'm not a huge fan of those, I just figured with .30-30 veliocities they might hold together better when hitting bone than most of what I've seen in the field), and this NEF didn't group nearly as well with them as with the other two.  So I'm crunching numbers today on various 150 grain bullets, and the Speer BTSP at 2450-2500 doesn't give up very much in trajectory to the lighter bullets, but has more impressive energy and should have good penetration-- and Speer's BT bullets are of lighter construction than their other ones so I'm thinking they may work well at this velocity.  I've taken scores of whitetail over the years with a short-barreled .308 and the Speer 165 BTSP at 2630, so maybe the 150 running 150-200 fps slower would do just about as well.

 I've said all that to ask this:

 What performance have you seen with different spire/spitzer/boattail bullets in .30-30 when the bullet hits the bone?  I only have the one to judge by, and everyone else I know who hunts with .30-30 uses a lever gun and standard .30-30 fare.

 Thanks,

Rick

 *** I forgot to mention that the jacket separated from the core and the -core- exited, the jacket was found under the skin.  Also, this is the max IMR book load for the T/C Contender, has worked great in the Handi with no pressure signs.***

[carbineman]

I use the Barnes 130 XBT with great results. Never been able to recover a bullet. A relative also uses this same bullet in his handi. These usually go right thru the whitetail. If I want an instant stop I aim for the front shoulder and this puts em right down. Those X bullets shoot more accurately for us than any other in the Topper or Handi.

Barnes has discontinued this bullet in favor of the TSX in 130 grain, but I have a good supply and will not probably go to the TSX as I believe there won't be enough powder case capacity to bring the TSX up to the speed of the XBT.

I too practise with the 130 Hornady SSSP (laid in a good supply before Hornady discontinued them) but have never killed a deer with them.

[Cottonwood]

I love the 30-30 and haven't yet started to load for it, simply because I haven't gotten my dies yet.  But I never put em in the shoulder either.... I discovered long ago that the shoulder blade is not connected to any joints like hip bones etc.  Heart lung shots for me are better saving should meat 

But no matter how you slice it, the 30-30 is a critter getter.

[backstrap]

I am not a 30-30 shooter but i do shoot a 30 cal in a 06 and i wouldnt sugject useing balistic tips i have had bad experence with them on deer for me they wouldnt be the bullet of choice they blow up on impact i have seen this with my own eyes so i switched to a lead nose bullet no proble sence,  i think the ballistic silver tips are much better bullet than the origanel balistic tip that has the tip on them that are color coded green 30cal, orange .224 and so on

[44 Man]

I have a friend that swears by the Speer 130 gr bullet for 30-30 in the TC, so I thought it would work well in a Handi.  I'll also try some flat nose 150's as they are designed for the proper performance at 30-30 velocites and see which will shoot the best in my gun.  44 Man.

[RickC.]

Thanks fellas,

And this was the Hornady #3020, not the single shot pistol bullet.  I have considered the Barnes but haven't been able to bring myself to pay for them!  As for the Speer FN bullets, no doubt they'd do well but the trajectory bothers me on those.  I haven't chronied the 150 loads yet, but I'm thinking you may be able to drive the 150s fast enough to do justice to the lighter constructed bullets using the Contender loads in the 22" barrel.


                Rick

[Bob A]

Hey Rick,

I am new on this list and a 30-30 shooter and loader.
I use 130 Speer FPs but have never tried IMR 3031 for this bullet.
Data on the Hodgdon site says max load is 31.5 for 2323 fps.
Did you chrono the Hornady bullet at 2653? What was the load?

Bob A

[Sourdough]

Got to remember those Ballistic Tips were designed for small game.  They are rapid expansion bullets not intended for deer, the metal jacket is too thin.  In a single shot there is no need to use the blunt nose bullets either they were designed for tube magazines so they would not set off the cartridge in front of it under recoil.  Those bullets have been the bane of the 30-30, they lose velocity too fast, therefore range suffered.  The use of a spire point is recommended, and should give you good range.  Any spire point 30 cal bullet  under 160gr NOT DESIGNED FOR VARMITS should work well.  The Nosler Accubond is a very good accurate bullet, but Nosler does not give loading info for the 30-30 with anything but round nose bullets.  Sierria also makes some good spier point bullets, a good 125gr and a 150gr, but there again they don't list a good load for the 30-30 using these bullets.  I think the old tube magazines have got them gun shy of listing anything with a point on it.

I have a manual that gives good loads for spire points in the 30-30, it was worked up for the contender.  Unfortunately I am unable to locate it now.

[quickdtoo]

Rog,

The Nosler 5th does offer 30-30 spitzer data in their handgun section, they recommend using the Ballistic Tip data for the Accubond in all of their data if you ask them or go to their forum, I've loaded lots of Accubond, but not in the .30-30.

Tim

[Cottonwood]

Sourdough nice avtar... sure would love to hunt me one of those caribou someday, but a guy I know that used to live in Alaska says, their is not nutritional stuff in the meat... etc etc etc.

Anyway, sure enjoy talking the 30-30 cartridge here 

[Sourdough]

Tim:  Gosh, I must have left my brain in bed this morning.  There it is in the fifth with nice loads for the 125, and 150/155gr.  Guess I was hung up on rifle loads.

[quickdtoo]

heh heh, that happens to us old guys from time to time!! 

[RickC.]

Hey Rick,

I am new on this list and a 30-30 shooter and loader.
I use 130 Speer FPs but have never tried IMR 3031 for this bullet.
Data on the Hodgdon site says max load is 31.5 for 2323 fps.
Did you chrono the Hornady bullet at 2653? What was the load?

Bob A

Hey Bob, and welcome!

 Yep, measured with an F-1 Chrony, average of a 10 shot string.  The load is the IMR max book load for the T/C Contender, so you would not want to use it in a lever gun, but their max load for the 130 Hdy is 36.0 IMR 3031.  I had to seat the bullet to a COAL of 2.645" to get the NEF action to close, so I backed off 2 grains and worked back up to the max load in half grain increments.  No pressure signs with R-P brass and WLR primers, but I did get flattened primers with W-W brass.  I call it my ".308 Roberts" load.

 The one shot I was able to take at a whitetail with this load was not a good test, so maybe it's not fair to want to jump ship and go to a heavier bullet, but I'd feel better with a bit more mass on a less than perfect angle.  On paper at least, the 150 BTSP has less than an inch difference at 250 yds (which is where I'd put the limit of this cartridge) at 2500 fps, but that's just a guess at velocity right now.   

 I settled on 3031 after trying several medium-burning powders- 748, H335, Re7, etc.  I really didn't want to use 3031 because those big honkin' grains don't meter well, but that gave me the best accuracy of them all and is very consistent in velocity. 


                                  Rick

[gould]

Has anyone used cast bullets in the 30-30 to take whitetails ? And how did it work what bullet? I will be getting mine next week and want to try every thing in it to see what works best. I have been looking at the 130 grain barns bullets also but was not sure if they would open up at longer ranges.
Thanks Jason

[Jim Stacy]

I have used the 125 BT in a 30 Herrett--2300 and they worked great on deer and hogs using chest shots. Killed a 300# hog on the spot with a low chest shot quartering back to front and left 2" exit hole through the front shoulder.
30/30 14" TC HOT 4198 load JD Jones had recommended >30/4198 Approx 2450 fps . Killed Antelope at 150 yards excellent bullet performance , chest shot 2+" exit hole antelope bolted and fell in 25 yards.
The Hdy 130 SSP is a tougher bullet works on hogs through the shoulder and deer with a like 4198 load. Both will work , both will probably blow up at velocities >2600-2700 FPS. my .02 worth and experince in shooting stuff with them.

[carbineman]

<gould wrote,  I have been looking at the 130 grain barns bullets also but was not sure if they would open up at longer ranges.
Thanks Jason>

The Barnes 130 grain XBT will work great. As of yet I haven't recovered a bullet,(they all go right thru leaving a fairly good size exit wound) so I can't tell you if they open up. All I've collected was dead deer.

Barnes has discontinued the 130XBT in favor of the 130TSX, But they are still selling some of the 130 XBT's on their website. A relative of mine has some 140 grain XBT's (also discontinued) that have worked well in his handi. Mine has the older Topper barrel and they work well in that barrel also. The 30-30 handi is one helluva shootin' machine from all the ones I handled.

[Dillohide]

The plain old Hornady 130 grain SP makes a good 30-30 deer bullet. I've only used it on doe but it did what it was supposed to. I've stuck to the Hornady T/C pistol data using both RL7 max and IMR 3031 max. Have never chronographed either but my guess is around 2500 fps. Of course it's hard to beat the Hornady 170 Flat Point with 30 grains IMR 3031 and Winchester Large Rifle primer on deer and hogs. That bullet is made to expand at lower velocity and the load is quite accurate. Have also found that Winchester primers are more accurate than CCI primers in the 30-30, at least with my loads. I prefer CCI primers in all my other loads.

[billy_56081]

  When did Hornady discontinue the 130 grain SSP bullet? That was going to be what I recomended. My daughter shot a 206 lb weighed black bear with them. Impressive results I'd say yes! Complete pass through chest shot. Far shoulder broken on the exit. When dressed the heart was shattered. Her gun was a Stevens 325, range about 30 yards. I'd hate to see this bullet be gone. I think Speer or Seirra makes a 135 grain SSP bullet that may give good results.

[PeterCartwright]

Perhaps ten years ago I loaded a batch of 150 Nosler Ballistic Tips to use in my .30-30 Handi.  As I recall, the rifle would print about 2" groups with this bullet.  I only shot one deer with the load-a very nice Upper Penninsula 6 point.  In the last moments of legal hunting and in a snow squall besides, this old boy came chargining in to a Tink's lure.  The raskal actually put his nose into one of the 35mm film canisters I was using to hold the scent.  (I was watching through binoculars).  He was quartering away from my blind at almost exactly 50 yards when I shot him.  The BT entered on an angle from behind the left shoulder, traversed through both lungs, penetrated the far shoulder and neatly broke the upper leg bone before leaving a 3/4" hole on its way out.  The deer literally dropped at the shot without so much as a quiver.

I know there are plenty of cases in which hunters have been disappointed with the Ballistic Tip series (at least with the smaller than .338 offerings) on white-tails, but my one experience (at .30-30 velocities) was pretty spectacular.  I wouldn't hesitate to use them again...except that this particular Handi has shown such a passion for Rem. 150 and 170 factory loads, I no longer bother.

[carbineman]

<billy wrote, When did Hornady discontinue the 130 grain SSP bullet?>

The bullet they discontinued was the #3021 SSSP( single shot spire point) They still make a 130 grain spire point to operate at higher velocities. Not sure on this but I think Sierra nolonger lists the 135 grain pistol bullet as well.

[Sourdough]

The Montanan:  Never heard that about Caribou.  The natives in Alaska would differ about that.  They live almost exclusively on Caribou.  I found the Caribou to taste a little like liver to me. 

[LEO]

RickC sounds like the bullet did a pretty good job.  No offense meant but you can't expect much more out of any bullet or any cartridge than what you got, you almost missed that deer but still got it.  I have never used the 125/130 bullets on deer, I have always used 150s or 170s but based on the performance you got, they sound like they may do pretty well on a chest cavity shot.  I have used the 125 grain balistic tips on some varmint loads and have had pretty good results, I don't think I would want to use them on deer as they tend to explode and fragment even at 30-30 velocities.

[aulrich]

In my nosler manual when there a BT bullets that are for Varmints it is clearly marked, there is no varmint 30 cal bt indicated.So I would not be too concerned about a bt in a 30-30 you won't get 2900 fps contact velocity (the upper end of the BT's performance) so blow ups realy should not be a problem, now out of a 30-06 or 308 you that's a different story.

[McLernon]

Any 30-30 bullet shot at a reasonable velocity and accurately is capable of double-lunging a deer. That's all you need

Mc

[Cottonwood]

The Montanan:  Never heard that about Caribou.  The natives in Alaska would differ about that.  They live almost exclusively on Caribou.  I found the Caribou to taste a little like liver to me. 

 

I told the guy that told me that, to look it up... the meat has plenty of good stuff to keep ya going. 

[RickC.]

RickC sounds like the bullet did a pretty good job.  No offense meant but you can't expect much more out of any bullet or any cartridge than what you got, you almost missed that deer but still got it.  I have never used the 125/130 bullets on deer, I have always used 150s or 170s but based on the performance you got, they sound like they may do pretty well on a chest cavity shot.  I have used the 125 grain balistic tips on some varmint loads and have had pretty good results, I don't think I would want to use them on deer as they tend to explode and fragment even at 30-30 velocities.

No offense taken, LEO.  What I didn't mention because I wasn't sure how to explain it in a forum so it would make sense is that the bullet was apparently deflected by something in the cutover-- the deer was quartering slightly away from me, and the bullet hit almost from -underneath-, nearly smack in the middle of the sternum, then raked up and through those ribs and out the shoulder.  My buddy who helped me track the deer was as surprised as I was when I recovered it and we had it up on the skinning rack.  He had seen me make the shot from his shooting house about 300 yds away, and neither of us could figure how in the world that deer was struck at that angle.  I would have to have been almost directly behind the deer shooting upward at it from a different angle to get that in a straight line.  There were a few stick-ups out there, but I had (or so I thought) an unobstructed view of the deer when I shot.

 We're both pretty sure about the single bullet theory on this one, but we haven't entirely ruled out The Grassy Knoll.



                                                     Rick