Author Topic: 30 Carbine project (Read 9050 times)

trotterlg · « **on:** March 08, 2007, 03:41:11 PM »

Got the first few steps going on the 30 Carbine Handi. Tonight I started working on the 410 barrel for the stub for the 30 cal barrel. First I chucked it in the lathe and put a center in the breach, then turned a parallel spot in the barrel about 18.5 inches out from the breach. I also turned round the outside chamber area just in front of the hinge pin for my steady rest to run on while I bore and thread the chamber to accept the new barrel. I then parted the barrel off a 18.5 inches to make it a little easier to work with. I will leave it at 18.5 inches until I have the chamber machined away and the threads cut for the new barrel, then cut the chamber off from the rest of the 410 barrel. Guess we need to stay legal. A couple of thoughts so far. It would probably be easier to start with a 20 ga than a 410, a little less metal to remove. The forarm lug sure comes off easy, two little wacks and it was on the floor. If anyone needs the little brass bead front sight off a shotgun PM me, first one gets it free. Larry

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2007, 04:03:48 PM »

Larry -
Keep these things coming! I want to do the same (turn a Winchester 37 in .410 into a .32-20 or .25-20).

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2007, 07:07:10 PM »

Tonight I bored the chamber out for threading for the new barrel. I decided to thread it at 13/16th 20, good thing about a job like this is you are not bound by any standard, you can make the dimensions and thread pitch whatever works out good for that project. I will thread the rear 1 inch of the chamber area of the barrel, I cut back the middle part about .050 to give me a place to stop the threads. I will bore the front of the stub to match the 13/16 major thread diameter of the barrel, and will then blend the front part of the stub to the sholder I turn on the barrel. We will see how things work out. If I am boring you tell me to stop and I will go away. Larry

myarmor · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2007, 07:47:46 PM »

Great pics! Things seem to be coming right along....and NO do not go away, your project is anything but boring!
Looks like the 410 barrel had plenty enough meat to work with huh?
Carry on...

-Aaron

trotterlg · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2007, 07:57:25 PM »

Plenty of metal to work with, a 20 gauge would have saved me about 15 minutes of boring, but I guess it is not that much. I did find that the welding or whatever had caused some hard spots in the chamber area. when I was boring it out I would run into spots that were harder than others. I don't know if this is common or if it is the same in rifles, it may be something to watch for if you are cutting a larger chamber in one of these things. Larry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #5 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:25:02 PM »

Thanks for the post and pictures Larry, keep them coming. I was thinking of using a .410 as a donor for my .45 ACP project, perhaps a 20 would be better as you say..please keep the info and pictures coming. Do you forsee any problem with fitting a rifle ejector to the shotgun barrel stub? How do they match up dimensionally with the area in the lug and the width and depth of the barrel cutout?....<><....

trotterlg · « **Reply #6 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:29:30 PM »

The ejector has the same body as the ejector for the rimfires, so a 22 rimfire ejector will need to be cut down a little. When I did the conversion of a 17 HMR to 17 Remington I figured out how to make the ejector for the rimfire drop down to load a rimless cartridge, it is really easy. Larry

billy_56081 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 10, 2007, 01:35:27 PM »

Interesting! keep us posted.

trotterlg · « **Reply #8 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:22:58 AM »

I cut the threads in the stub last night, and will drill and tap the stub for a scope mount today. The barrel should arrive tomorrow, so I will work on it then. I have three options for putting the barrel in the stub. Turn a shoulder on it like a Remington barrel and thread it in from the front. Turn a sholder on the barrel and bore the front of the stub smaller and thread the barrel in from the rear and tighten it against an internal sholder. Thread the barrel for a barrel nut like a Savage uses. Guess this may depend on the exact dimensions on the barrel when I get the old chamber cut off. It also appears the breach is not exactly 90 degrees to the bore, it is off a couple of thousanths top to bottom. I don't know if this is by design or if it just sloppy tolerences, the breach is milled off not turned, so it could just be sloppy work. This does pose a question on how to put the rear of the new chamber in the stub. I could leave it a couple of thousanths below the breach of the stub and just let the old breach close against the frame or I could turn i the barrel some and then machine off every thing so it is completely flat. Larry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #9 on:** March 11, 2007, 08:27:27 AM »

"or I could turn in the barrel some and then machine off every thing so it is completely flat."

this method gets my vote....<><....

tallyho · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2007, 12:23:22 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on March 09, 2007, 07:07:10 PM

If I am boring you tell me to stop and I will go away. Larry

As far as I'm concerned there is nothing "boring" in this stuff Larry. Well technically, I guess doing the chamber is literally "boring" (but definitely not in the "yawn" sense). It is just as fascinating as everything else you are doing! Please don't go away until the story is finished! I just hate missing out on the endings of interesting stories.

trotterlg · « **Reply #11 on:** March 11, 2007, 04:20:05 PM »

Last post for today, promise, I got a new bottel of Wisky and will try it out now. One thing you will find when you start working with these things is that very little is square or concintric with anything else. The stub part is not round, NEF grinnds off some where they weld on the lug, so grabbing it with a chuck is not easy. I made up a tool out of the extra barrel piece, turned and threaded it to match the threads in the stub and can now use it to chuck up so I can run my center and steady rest on the stub so that every thing is square with the bore. Pictures are of both parts, and with the tool partly screwed into the stub. When I use it I will show the lathe setup. Larry

MSP Ret · « **Reply #12 on:** March 11, 2007, 05:29:48 PM »

Thanks Larry, this is one very interesting and informative thread!!! Keep up the good work and keep these posts and pictures coming!!!!....<><....

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:25:57 PM »

Well I must be a boreing person cuz I am checking this out as often as I can. Heck if ya lived close to me I'd even come over and see. Might even bring some mix for your new jug.

trotterlg · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2007, 04:46:43 PM »

Got the barrel today, Remington 300 Winchester Mag, started out 26 inches long. I turned off the chamber end just ahead of the sholder, the neck is smaller than the 30 Carbine case so I gained about a quarter inch of barrel length and it is a little more metal I won't have to cut out. The barrel will finish at about 23.5 inches it looks like. I got it turned down to fit in the stub and threaded, tomorrow I will cut the stub down about in the middle of the taper in front of the barrel lug and put it together I hope. If I didn't have a day job I would be finished by now. Larry

trotterlg · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2007, 07:19:43 PM »

Just couldn't stand it, so I fitted it tonight also. Looks good to me, a little rounding off and cleaning up and I'm set, now to ream and cut the ejector cutout. Larry

Datil · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:10:33 AM »

Very interesting, Hope you will stay with us until finished, let us know how it shoots.
Best of luck Marv.

ONE HOLE 4570 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2007, 03:45:25 AM »

Lookin good wish I had the time talent & equipment. Don't have any of it so I will watch & learn & dream through your project. Hope it is a good shooter

MSP Ret · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2007, 05:03:53 AM »

Great job Larry, keep these reports coming. I am especially interested in the ejector work. I hpe my .45 ACP conversion works out as well....<><....

sluggo · « **Reply #19 on:** March 13, 2007, 12:18:04 PM »

I want one or two!!!!

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:32:24 PM »

Tonight I put it together for good, I locktighted the barrel in the stub, polished out the cuts I made in the barrel for the steady rest (factory barrels are not really turned on center to taper them) and cut the breach flush. I elected to turn in the barrel about .010 past the old breach face then turn it off until I just touched part of the old breach. As I said, these things are not really parallel to anything, so you can see where the old breach was a little high in a few places, it is all flat and evened out now, and the rifle locks up just like it did before. Now to chamber it and cut the ejector slot. Larry

knight0334 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 13, 2007, 02:36:16 PM »

Very nice work! I've been considering doing the same thing on a couple projects.

...cant wait to see the results of your labor.

trotterlg · « **Reply #22 on:** March 13, 2007, 04:23:29 PM »

I cut the chamber, I used some new factory loads to head space it, reamed it to .003 on the new loaded rounds. They don't vary by .0005, so I would say it is probably about right. I am about stopped now, I am waiting on the new RF ejector before I mill in the ejector slot. Larry

Jim Stacy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 13, 2007, 04:44:15 PM »

Larry you are a craftsman , not a mechanic like some of the rest of us. I am impressed with your work. Are you a machinist by trade or a gunsmith ? Your knowdledge of machine work and tolerances is excellent. I know all of us have watched and read this post and really enjoyed it?

trotterlg · « **Reply #24 on:** March 13, 2007, 06:33:31 PM »

I'm no craftsman by any means, the real machinests who look at this thread are laughing their butts off looking at the cuts I make, but I can get buy. I do instrumention photography for a large Aerospace company in Seattle, mostly taking pictures of things being broken or blown up. I was on the last Sea-Launch mission when the rocket had the "annomonly" and turned the NewSkys Satallite to dust at the equator last month. Last thing I did tonight is polish a little more off the barrel breach to clean up all the cut marks the factory left on it, surprisingly to me it did not change the way the gun locked up at all that I could tell. I popped a primed case with no load in it just to see if it would shoot, (it did) and measured how much the primer lifted to check for real headspace. This is a little trick I learned a long time ago, fire a primed case with no powder or bullet in it, the primer will blow it's self back against the breach or bolt head and flatten out while pushing the case all the way forward, the amount the primer is sticking out above the case head is what the real head space you have is. Larry

warf73 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2007, 12:03:07 AM »

Great looking work, and I am a machinist by trade I give ya an A on the project.
Looks better than some of our off load work that comes in the door.

Quote

I was on the last Sea-Launch mission when the rocket had the "annomonly" and turned the NewSkys Satallite to dust at the equator last month.

We work for the same company

ow wait I did before we were bought by Canadian Bacon.

Warf

billy_56081 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2007, 01:29:14 PM »

Over 600 views now and you thought u might bore us with this project.

Keep on boring us were lovin it.

totallycustom · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2007, 09:46:18 AM »

This project is very cool, I like to see something very original like this. I am glad the head space is working out, it seems like a hard cartridge to get right. a nice set of walnut stocks would look very nice also.

Is it getting iron sights at all? That would be nice also.

-TC-

trotterlg · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2007, 02:44:43 PM »

A nice set of iron sites would be good, I drilled and tapped the stub for a scope base before I threaded in the new barrel, a low set of iron sights would go well with a 30 Carbine I have to agree, I'm old, and iron sights work for me but seems the new kids don't know how to run them Larry

Fred M · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2007, 03:33:10 PM »

Trott.
Looking good man, I got quite a few take off open sights ramps three leave folding rear and a few others. If you want some let me let me know you can have them for the shipping.