Low Profile Hammer Part 2

[quickdtoo]

Attempt this project at your own risk.

Quickdtoo and GBO are in no way responsible for the out-come. We're not responsible for any mess-ups, deaths, injuries, ect.

I know it sounds harsh, just making sure you realize that using any of this info means you're on your own.




I've been trying to get a Topper 158 hammer from Numrich for quite a while, they've always been out of em. Finally got 2, one as cast, and one of the gold tone hammers. Installed the gold tone in an SB2 frame today, had to remove the t-bar as it won't work with it. The anchor point for the hammer spring is in a different position, it will work, but there's very little tension on the hammer as the spring is almost in its relaxed position, so I ordered the original springs that are made for that model to see if it will work. The anchor is just a roll pin, there is no "head" on it to keep the short arm of the spring from slipping off the anchor, but I think it will stay in position due to the offset position of the spring on the anchor and on the frame on the other end of the spring.

The hammer has a half cock notch that will keep the hammer from hitting the firing pin if the trigger isn't pulled if the hammer is dropped accidentally and to keep the hammer off the firing pin. Other than the spring issue, I think it will work fine. The bottom pic shows a modern hammer behind the Topper hammer for comparison. The hammers are $9.40 each at Numrich, listed under H&R model 158.

EDIT: Be aware the old hammers have a half cock notch to make it safer(not as safe as a transfer bar) so the hammer isn't resting on the firing pin, but the shooter needs get in the habit of pulling the hammer back to the half cock position after loading. Fortunately the ejector will ride over the firing pin and push it out of the way with no harm, I thought maybe it would shear it off but it doesn't.


Tim

www.e-gunparts.com

EDIT: The double coil spring from Wolff will work if you heat the long anchor ends of the spring and straighten them out so they'll clear the trigger guard on each side.

EDIT: Follow up discussion on the conversion, please read: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,155259.msg1098669716.html#msg1098669716

[stimpylu32]

Tim

I like the gold , looks like just enough diffrence to allow for 1 size lower rings , what is it about 1/8" ?

stimpy

[quickdtoo]

Yeah, about that, when I take it back apart to put the other spring in when I get it, I'll take a side by side pic and measure it, should've done that first I guess!!

As Kerry said in his thread on the Topper hammer and extension, it won't work on the right side of the hammer, but it will work on the left side, kinda loose tho, just as he said. I'm wondering if one of the other hammer extensions for other rifles might work on it?

Tim

[stimpylu32]

Maybe one for a Marlin or Henry lever gun , i think they have a more rounded hammer that the handi's .

stimpy

[quickdtoo]

After removing it, and measuring the difference, it's more like 5/16" shorter when both are mounted on the same pin!!

I tried an Encore hammer extension, it fits the hammer good, but only on the left side and the right side of it would need to be modified slightly cuz it still touches the barrel release, although there's no barrel on the frame now, it may not when there is, so it would definitely work.

Tim

[handirifle]

Has anyone ever tried heating the hammer and bending the tang portion down and then re-heat treating it?  It seems to me like that would be a lot easier.

5/16 is a big difference.

[quickdtoo]

I think it could be done, I heated one red hot, enough to anneal it so I could drill and tap it for a Winchester M94 hammer extension, it wouldn't take too much more heat to make it bend, although more of the hammer would need to be heated. I think I'd heat and bend, then heat and quench in used motor oil to strengthen it again.

Tim

[quickdtoo]

I was at the hardware store, looked at their spring assortment, they had one torsion spring that has legs 90º from each other, bought one, trimmed one leg short and the other so it just fits within the frame and tried it, works great and for only 60 cents!! I also drove a small brass wood screw into the roll pin anchor on the hammer to keep the spring from slipping off the end of the roll pin.

I put a barrel on the frame, with any hammer extension on it, it will interfere with the barrel release, it's just too low. The only hammer extension that I can see working is the Winchester M94 that requires the hammer to be drilled and tapped.

The scope is mounted in low Warne rings, there's enough room to work the hammer, although the barrel release does crowd your right thumb, works great for a lefty tho!!

Tim

[tallyho]

Just for some clarification re the Topper and hammer extension activities here:  http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,117170.0.html

I have to say, yes ultimately, unless you are willing to grind and sculpt the extension (the standard one for a Handi) a fair bit it will interfere with the latch. What seems to be happening is that rather quickly the impact of the hammer at firing causes the extension to slip forward just a smidge, and after 3 or so shots, it has moved forward enough to catch on the latch. You are fortunate if you feel it scrape the latch as it is cocked... not so lucky if you don't notice, fully cock it, and then it catches on the latch at firing - and doesn't fire.

And in spite of adding that small tightening screw, the extension still slips forward. I put it there with the theory that it would hold the extension in place by grabbing the grooves on the hammer - it may work with another screw, but this one isn't long enough to grip solidly. And the cut out in the extension itself (where it fits over the hammer) is very roomy and without actually measuring, just by eyeballing, it looks like the modern NEF hammer is thicker at that point than the Topper's hammer. And because of the lower profile, the arc made by the extension on the Topper pretty much guarantees it will catch on the latch unless sculpting is done.

So, my next step is to try Tim's method of drilling into the hammer for a Winchester type extension. Or maybe just stick with iron sights...

Yeah, I could move it to the the left hand side of the hammer, but I think it will still slip forward after some hammer impacts, and basically I won't really trust it even if it doesn't: anyway, I'm feeling a tinkering itch about this.

By the way, anybody got a hammer extension they want to part with? I'd be willing to try an Encore one (thanks Tim, I've been wondering what else might fit.) I"ve 'sculpted' this current one so much I'm thinking of sending it to an art museum. 

Kerry

[hunman55]

Thanks for the info on the replacement hammer. I got one from Numrich for a Mod. 162 Buck model. It is a black casting-I may polish and re-blue before installation. Thanks,Quick, for the info on the hammer spring. Hunman55

[quickdtoo]

I also bought one of the early 158 hammers listed at Numrich, I drilled and tapped it for a M94 extensiion this afternoon and installed it in an SB2 frame, it clears the barrel release fine.

Tim

[hunman55]

So, Quick, are these hammers interchangeable? I know you can't use the late hammer with the older 158 receivers without some mods, but you can vice-versa? Hunman55

[quickdtoo]

The 158 hammer works on a late frame just fine, that's what this thread is about.   I don't have a 158 to try a late hammer on, I traded mine back to Tallyho. But I don't know why anyone would want to put a late hammer on a 158 that has a low spur, unless it's to replace a broken hammer. The biggest problem is getting the 158 hammers, Numrich doesn't have them very often..... and they have 5 less now that I bought em!!

Tim

[kody]

Numrich has 4 hammers listed,a gold one and 3 other types in black. The black ones each have a different p/n referring to the manufacture series..The series numbers have no correlation to year of manufacture that I can find, as do the frame s/ns, so how can we determine which hammer [and spring] to get. Did you get differing p/n hammers and, if so, how were those different from each other. Where did the gold one fit in? Are there any old P/N lists floating around that might show the actual old p/ns ,such as for that double spring .   KODY

[quickdtoo]

You're on your own there, all of the hammers I've ordered have required modification, either by removing the transfer bar and/or changing the spring or anchor point. Please post your question on the breech plug in the Huntsman/Sidekick forum, this thread isn't the place for it. 

Tim