Author Topic: KN03 question? (Read 6701 times)

m223 · « **on:** June 23, 2007, 05:14:09 AM »

Hello all, When I was a teenager you could walk into a drugstore and buy potassium nitrate in 1 lb. bottles. I was wanting to make a slow match, but I have heard that some big brother types have restricted the sale of saltpeter to the public. Is this misguided attempt at a brave new world true? If so are there alternative sources to KN03, Besides making your own from dirt as directed by the U.S. Army Improvised weapons manual? Are there agricultural sources, etc.? Thank You for any help in clarifications M223

lesmoore · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2007, 05:46:18 AM »

Here's a site with directions and materials and equipment to make your own black powder and fireworks.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/bp.htm

"The sale of common oxidizers (like Potassium Nitrate) are being increasingly regulated by the U.S. Government and they are becoming very difficult to find. Like many suppliers operating under new regulations, United Nuclear can no longer sell certain chemicals and oxidizers.

However, many customers report that they have used 'Tree Stump Remover', which apparently is almost pure Potassium Nitrate... and is available in most hardware or garden supply stores. "

He also sells ball mills to grind powder safely..... and chemicals from A to Z.
http://www.unitednuclear.com/chem.htm

This guy IS a rocket scientist and has been driving a hydrogen powered Corvette for years..... standard gas Vette running on hydrogen made in his garage from solar power.

http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/h2.htm

have fun..... http://www.unitednuclear.com/exper.htm

GGaskill · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2007, 06:04:58 AM »

KNO₃ is still available from agriculture supply sources but I don't know if there are any restrictions. Stump remover is KNO₃ but a little expensive for use in volume.

Rickk · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2007, 06:08:52 AM »

Try your local hardware store. Look for "Grant's Stump Remover". It is 100% KNO3. It goes for about $5 a pound.

Thre are other stump removal brands, but I think that only Grants is KNO3.

You could try a agricultural fertilizer distributor as well. You would be looking for "13-0-46 " . They might call it KNO3 as well. If you can get it there, a 50# bag should run you under $20. My local delaler (a big place) does not carry it any more, but I hear that some places do. My local dealer only sells 500# of anything minimum buy... sort of commercial sales only.

I have seen it on internet but shipping is a killer.

The $5 bottle of Grants will make a lot of slow match.

As a side note, I add food coloring to my mix. It colors the rope so you know it is slowmatch and also gives you a hint as to how uniform your job came out.... and it looks sooo pretty as well

Make sure you don't have a nylon core in the cotton rope. If you can not get uncored rope, then cut cored rope into lengths and snake the nylon core out of it. It is not impossible to do as long as the lengths are under 5-6 feet. Check with Magician's supply http://rope.ws/ . They often have uncored cotton rope and their prices are great.

I have never tried it, but I heard that hemp rope is more traditional. Maybe I'll make up a batch of hemp rope sometimes soon and try it.

Rick

m223 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2007, 06:15:55 AM »

Lesmoore, yes united nuclear is a fantastic site and as a matter a fact, it was that very site that that prompted me to post on this subject. Several months ago you could purchase twice as many goodies from them as you can today. A short time back when I visited their site several chemicals where on hold for sale to the public pending some injunction by some Federal regulators worried about " terrorists". KN03 was one of these chemicals. If you go to their site today you will see at least a dozen chemicals are no longer on their site including KN03, sob, cry, sob! The war on terrorism is taking or freedoms. While action needs to be taken, I do not think limiting the availabilities of KN03 to American citizens is going to help things one bit , and frankly I'm PISSED! Please tell me I'm wrong about availability of KN03. I can not find it at United Nuclear anymore and just try to walk into Walgreen's and find it on the shelves. I long for the old days. M223

m223 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2007, 06:20:17 AM »

O.k I'm a little less Pissed now. thank you all! I'm getting some Grant's A.S.A.P. as I do not have all day to make it from dirt. M223 P.S. Thanks for reminding me I need to pick up some food coloring too. you guys have some great posts on making slow matches Thanks again.

Will Bison · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2007, 08:26:42 AM »

For slow match just buy some Grants Stump remover or use a little BP. Mix water and BP and pour through a few coffee filters. The charcoal and sulphur are trapped in the filters. Dump your cotton rope in the liquid, it contains the KNO3. A little bit goes a long way.

Bill

Santa Dave · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2007, 10:26:32 AM »

I got mine on Ebay.
A guy out in CA had a bunch of merck grade that had gotten dampish(lumpy) and so was selling it cheap (3.00 a pound) So now I scrape off what I need with a spoon, big deal I think I use two Tablespoons in a quart jar add the rope,(I use hemp) and turn every day for a week then hang it out from both ends till it's dryish then throw it in the dryer with a towel .
Have fun!
Dave

intoodeep · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2007, 10:36:38 AM »

It's still available on ebay as Santa Dave stated.

lesmoore · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2007, 04:58:06 PM »

I just bought 50# from eBay... total with shipping $106.00--- that's just over $2.00 a pound

Potassium Nitrate Powder 50LBS KNO3, Tech Fine Powder
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150133509108

Buy It Now price:    US $62.50
Buy another >

End time:   Jun-26-07 22:10:43 PDT (3 days 2 hours)
Shipping costs:
US $43.20
UPS Ground
Service to 78726, United States
(more services)
Calculate
Ships to:   United States, Canada
Item location:   Oceanside, California, United States
Quantity:   9 available
History:   Purchases
Buyer:   User ID kept private

m223 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2007, 05:51:25 AM »

Thanks for all the help guys, I guess I over reacted, as there are apparently several sources of KN03 available. It would probably be wise to pick up the 50# lot on EBay, but wholly cow I hope I would never need that much. I'm heading over to Ace and or T.S.C. after this post. M223

m223 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2007, 08:51:19 AM »

Well I went to Ace they did not have any Grants , but they had some 3/8 " natural sisal hemp rope. I got 10' for about $1.70. Then I headed over to Tractor Supply, They had Gordon's stump remover 1Lb. was about $4.80. The local fabric store was closed so I went to wall mart, in their sewing section I found 100% cotton rope in 1/4" and 1/2" a $1.67 for 9' of the former & $3.27 for 9' of the latter. I also got some red food coloring for $1.08. In a large glass bowl I mixed 1 1/2 tablespoons of Gordon's stump remover with 4 cups of hot water and red food coloring . Into that I placed the different ropes to soak for about 15 minutes. They seemed to soak this up well and are all very red as well are my hands. I took the ropes outside and laid them across the the hot hood of my old pickup in the sun. When they are dry I will post the results of this experiment.

Rickk · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2007, 09:44:45 AM »

You lucked out... Gordon's is KNO3 also http://www.pbigordon.com/pdfs/StumpRemover-MSDS.pdf Not all the stump removers are.

m223 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2007, 10:01:40 AM »

Thanks for the MSDS link Rickk, but I have to say it was not blind luck. Lesmoore in his kindness did his research on Gordon's' and posted the info for us. You are right not all stump removers are KN03, and dang it all I can not remember the name of the stuff Ace had, but I do remember reading in a post here that it was not KN03, Hence the trip to T.S.C. M223 http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,120980.0.html
Make Black Powder at Home... Links

m223 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2007, 10:44:13 AM »

O.K. I found a post on linstock on page 30. Rickk writes, " Bonide Stump-Out is sodium metabisulfide ....different stuff " So I owe Rickk another thanks Because that is what Ace had on there shelves. Thank you both Rickk and Lesmoore , as well as everyone else who shares there time and information. M223

m223 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 24, 2007, 01:07:56 PM »

Holy smokes, it works! Wow I made this batch up around 1:00 pm and it is already to use at 5:30 pm. It is about 90 degrees F. outside and probably hotter on the hood of my truck. Now my results. First off I have not tried the 1/2" cotton rope when it dried it was pretty apparent it needed to soak longer, as when I unwound some strands it looked just like a candy cane; However the sisal rope and 1/4" Cotton both work great. The 1/4" cotton seems the best although it burns twice as fast as the sisal. The cotton has a tighter weave and once lit forms a perfect red hot cone that needs no blowing on. It burns about 1" every 4 minutes. The sisal is 3/8" diameter and red all the way through. it is not as tightly woven as the cotton, once lit and going well it seems to do great also, not quite the perfect cone, and it smokes quite a bit. It seems to burn about half as fast as the cotton. Maybe 8 minutes per inch. Now I need to make a linstock, and to think all the fourth of July's I used a crumby punk. This is a fun project everyone should try. Thanks M223

lance · « **Reply #16 on:** June 24, 2007, 02:47:47 PM »

now don't get mad at me. i've been watching your project and think it's been a great one. plus there's the pride of making something and having it work. but with all the running around buying supplies, tracking down the right ingredients and looking for rope. you can order 12 foot sections of matchlock from dixie gun works for two dollars and fifty cents. burns one foot an hour, works good, i use it. but if they ever run out, you can always make your own.................

Rickk · « **Reply #17 on:** June 24, 2007, 02:54:57 PM »

You might want to wash off the hood of your truck. Fertilizer (aka KNO3) can do bad things to paint

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** June 24, 2007, 04:33:31 PM »

Quote from: Rickk on June 24, 2007, 02:54:57 PM

You might want to wash off the hood of your truck. Fertilizer (aka KNO3) can do bad things to paint

It might actually IMPROVE the finish of MY truck.

m223 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2007, 05:24:22 PM »

Lance, I'm not mad at all, I welcome your input. I don't have a credit card and the 4th is coming up soon, so I did not want to worry about getting some slow match via the mail in time. The price at Dixie Gun Works is very reasonable, but it may be awhile before I use up my home supply. Plus like I said it was a fun experiment . I only had to drive maybe 5 miles total for all my running around. Rickk I already rinsed off the hood to my precious $400.00 dollar pickup, so no worries there. M223 P.S. C.W. I can relate about improving the finish.

lance · « **Reply #20 on:** June 24, 2007, 05:53:32 PM »

it's Tracy right? just wondering, ever been to Enid Oklahoma? i was there four years. i like Kansas too. have a great 4th of july....................

m223 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 25, 2007, 01:04:17 AM »

Hi Lance, Can't say I remember passing through Enid or not: However I used to go canoe'ing up in Talliaqua (not sure on the spelling) must say it puts the beauty of Kansas to shame up in that area. once I Find a new job, and get something better than my $400.00 pick up ,I would like to go back down there. I do not want to get to far off topic, so have a great 4th. If you want to talk more about Oklahoma & Kansas you could P.M. me; although I have not tried that feature yet. Best regards , Tracy P.S. were your 4 years at Enid military related?

lance · « **Reply #22 on:** June 25, 2007, 03:46:05 PM »

Tracy, military related, classified info, so we'll just talk cannons. did you every get a base made for your mortar? i like the looks of it, just haven't caught a picture of the base if there's one on this forum. have a safe and happy 4th...........

lesmoore · « **Reply #23 on:** June 26, 2007, 03:57:46 AM »

Quote from: lesmoore on June 23, 2007, 04:58:06 PM

I just bought 50# from eBay... total with shipping $106.00--- that's just over $2.00 a pound

I got confirmation of shipping from UPS on the 25th... quick service.

m223 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 26, 2007, 02:03:12 PM »

Lance, I was lucky and spent a lot of my Army time up at Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland. My Barracks were a short walk away from the U.S Army Ordnance Museum, A real treat for the eyes! Well worth the visit. Also one can check it out on the web. Now back to cannon, mortar stuff. I have a couple of mortars I made, the one that is my avatar is soda can size, and I am currently redoing the trunnions by making them larger in diameter. I will start a new thread showing before and after when I am done. At work during my lunch break I have been working on making a dictator like base for this mortar. Our mill has been tied up as of late so unfortunately I am making it out of wood. I think once all this comes together in the next couple of days it should look pretty good. As for my golf ball mortar I am going to put a couple of small bolts in the trunnion and weld it. I won't have time for this to soon so I am going to make some kind of make shift base to celebrate the 4th. Also I made a linstock to hold the 1/4" slow match I made. I included a link to the picture below. Talk to you later, Tracy P.S. Lesmoore Are you planning on making some black powder? Congratulations on your purchase. https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/mongo223/linstock.jpg

lesmoore · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2007, 03:22:42 AM »

10-4 will be making some powder.. . I plan to buy a ball mill from United Nuclear.

jeeper1 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2007, 12:22:48 PM »

Check out these tumblers.
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=tumbler&Submit=Go

Double D · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2007, 05:30:43 PM »

I believe we had sevearal discussion here on the board about making you own black...general consensus I believe was it isn't worth the trouble.

Those of you who do/did make your own powder care to comment?

lesmoore · « **Reply #28 on:** June 28, 2007, 02:00:59 AM »

I figure making powder is like cooking chicken.... you can buy Barbecue chicken at WalMart cheaper cooked than raw.
But "getting there is half the fun."

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html

Will Bison · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2007, 03:38:30 AM »

DD asks "Those of you who do/did make your own powder care to comment?"

I think DD hit the nail on the head, it's a lot of work. For what I have spent on equipment I could buy 4 cases of GOEX or more. To that I'll add that most of the equipment has other uses. In my case it was/is a learning experience, not a matter of economics although if I write off all the gear I can produce powder at under $2.00 per pound. Add to that the element of time (I figure about an hour per pound) and any savings quickly evaporates.

Again in my case, I can spend 10 hrs on a Winter day fully immersed in the shop making powder and come away totally satisfied. For a lot of folks that would be a long and boring day.

Bill