460S&W magnum RIFLE chronograph session HOLY COW!

[R.W.Dale]

OK get this, Encore katadhin 20" barrel 460 S&W.


 200grn FACTORY loads

1. 2863 fps
2. 2807
3. 2847
4. 2849
5. 2830

 YES you read correct that's a handgun round launching 200grn bullets faster than 30-06:what:

300grn Hornady XTP mag, handloads
 one grain up from the start load

1. 2057
2. 2091
3. 2088
4. 2042
5. 2058

 Recoil with the 200grn loads were rather pleasant in spite of the high velocity. Recoil with the 300grn handloads was an EVENT although not painful . The flextech stock really takes the bite out of those heavy hitters.

[handirifle]

Impressive difference, the question is, would the bullets hold together on a shot of 50-75yds.  In the 45-70, using the 300gr HP, many have exceeded 2300-2400fps with them, but the bullets often do not penetrate well, even on deer size targets.  The velocity is well beyond the bullets design paramaters.

Now I'm sure those would work well at 150-200yds.

[R.W.Dale]

 What is you 45-70 guy'es problem with other 45 caliber cartriges I swear ya'll are like muslims in your intolerance. .It's like a religion with you people1 I got news for ya there a re a bunch of 45 caliber cartriges that leave 45-70 in the dust

 The 300grn MAGNUM xtp will hold up just as well as any 45-70 300grn bullets. it's not like 45-70 jacketed bullets aren't designed for low velocities. Can you say trapdoor springfield.

 the 200grn bullet is a thoroughly modern muzzle loading bullet, i have no doubt it'll handle the stresses.



 How's this for you 45-70ites. I was also shooting some 200grn cast SWC bullets out of 45LC brass. The bullets cost less than $30 for 500 and the powder used was only 8grns of unique. velocity was 900 fps and accuracy was outstanding

[Redhawk1]

 krochus, that is some impressive results from that 460 you go.  I use the 460 Mag in a handgun and I am impressed with it in that platform.  I think the bullets will hold up just fine at short distances, the XTP mags are tough bullets. Keep that info coming, great to hear.

[Lone Star]

Is anyone interested in facts rather than the opinion of a few shooters, none of whom have ever used these 300-grain bullets on game at those high velocities?   

Hornady lists a muzzle velocity window of 1200-2200 fps for the 300-grain MAG XTP bullet.  That is 500 fps higher than the limit for the "regular" 300 XTP.   


.

[handirifle]

What is you 45-70 guy'es problem with other 45 caliber cartriges I swear ya'll are like muslims in your intolerance. .It's like a religion with you people1 I got news for ya there a re a bunch of 45 caliber cartriges that leave 45-70 in the dust

 The 300grn MAGNUM xtp will hold up just as well as any 45-70 300grn bullets. it's not like 45-70 jacketed bullets aren't designed for low velocities. Can you say trapdoor springfield.

 the 200grn bullet is a thoroughly modern muzzle loading bullet, i have no doubt it'll handle the stresses.



 How's this for you 45-70ites. I was also shooting some 200grn cast SWC bullets out of 45LC brass. The bullets cost less than $30 for 500 and the powder used was only 8grns of unique. velocity was 900 fps and accuracy was outstanding

OK first off, breathe...take long slow breaths, cause NO ONE was flaming anything.  You missread my intentions in my comment.  I was simply bringing up something to consider, in pointing out that "those 45-70 guys" have been known to push bullets beyond their design parameters.  I had no idea what bullets came in the 460 factory loads.

My first comment was a statement of fact, impressive difference, but remember, you ARE using a HANDGUN bullet, going WAY beyond factory velocities.  THAT was why I was mentioning the FAILURES of the 45-70 bullets, meaning it might be something to keep in the back of your mind if and when you hunt with them.

Didn't realize this was such a touchy subject for you.

Good grief!

[R.W.Dale]

Didn't realize this was such a touchy subject for you.

Good grief!

Don't lecture me, You and or your fellow 45/70ites gotten on EVERY topic I've posted about the 460 waving your 45-70 flags just like every topic that I had posted previously a couple years ago back when was I experimenting with and posting about my 500 rifle.

[Redhawk1]

 krochus , you are well within the limits of the 300 gr. XTP mag bullets for the 460 Mag.  As for the Hornady bullets, they were designed to go that fast also.  I have seen several deer that were shot with a 460 Mag handgun at close range, there was no bullet to be found, it went in and out and the exit wound was about 2 to 3 time of the entrance wound.

[R.W.Dale]

 A bit of an update,

 I chronied some more loads today. 300grn XTP magnum.  40.0 grains of H-110 2110 FPS average. 3 to 4 inch groups at 100yds. Not bad for a holographic sight. Pretty stout for a handgun round not shooting a max load.

[quickdtoo]

That's the same velocity I get with 40gr Lil'gun with the 350gr XTP in the .500 S&W Handi, but with 2" 100yd groups scoped, I'm sure the 460 would do much better with a little more glass on it to take advantage of the .45 cal bullets, your sight does leave a lot to be desired at any range at all.

Great report and thanks for the follow up!

Tim

[R.W.Dale]

your sight does leave a lot to be desired at any range at all.

http://www.ultradotwest.com/ultra_dot_west_2007_007.htm

 With a 2 MOA dot I'm not at as much of a disadvantage as you'd expect. these new holographic sights are a wonder!  Without a brake to tame muzzle flip putting a scope on this 6lb rifle would be suicide. I learned that real quick with the first few loads I fired.

[quickdtoo]

Covering 2" of your aimpoint isn't conducive to small groups unless you have an aim point designed for the reticle that allows it to be perfectly centered, covering the aim point is counter productive to accuracy, a one MOA dot or cross if you have the option would be a better choice I would think.

Your rilfe is prodcuing 32lbs recoil, not a lot compared to other big bores, any scope with 4"-6" eye relief should work fine if you have it well mounted and don't crawl the stock at the bench.    The red dot scopes are great for quick target aquisiton tho, the 460 would be an excellent bear stopper although a single shot wouldn't be my choice for that purpose unless I had a backup partner with me.

Tim

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

[R.W.Dale]

any scope with 4"-6" eye relief should work fine if you have it well mounted and don't crawl the stock at the bench.

 Except without sending the barrel to a gunsmith to have more holes drilled there isn't a scope mount made for an encore that'll allow you to put a scope that far from your head.


 I honestly don't care what numbers some egghead calculated to tell me what kicks harder than what. The muzzle flip on this rifle is TRAGIC, You wouldn't shoot two rounds through this rifle with a scope on it before you decided to put something with unlimited eye relief on it.

Covering 2" of your aimpoint isn't conducive to small groups

 Then how in the world do we manage to shoot good groups with IRON sights 
 the 3/32" gold bead sight on my match rifle covers alot more than 2" on the target at 100 yds

unless you have an aim point designed for the reticle that allows it to be perfectly centered,

 The targets I use are bracketed perfectly inside the reticle at 100yds.

 I can't understand why everyone wants to crawl up my stuff on this gun.  It may be that you're used to that NEF forum where EVERY group EVER fired is always sub MOA . Unlike others on the internet I'm not going to cherry pick my good groups. Unlike some that may shoot a 2 4 and 8 groups in a sitting and then claim thier rifle produces " 2moa groups all day long" I'll actually tell you when I don't have a good group shooting day.

[quickdtoo]

6 O'clock holds and good eyes are typically used with iron sights to get those little groups, unless a special target insert is used in a front sight globe. Using a target with an aim point that fits the sight works good as I mentioned.

I don't have a problem with my 375H&H Encore and the 4-12X Leupold on it, but the muzzle jump would definately be more pronounced with the short barrel.

If you read the NEF forum regularly, you'd see that there are a lot of folks that come there for help that aren't getting the accuracy out of their rifles that they desire, but 99% of em learn what it takes to get their rifles to shoot very good in short order.

Tim

[handirifle]

Krocus
I have to chime back in here.  Not ONCE did I ever cut down your caliber or cartridge choice.  Not once did I compare it to the 45-70 (in this thread) not make claims of one over the other.

ALL I ASKED was whether or not the bullets would perform properly at those velocities.  I did mention some of the 45-70 articles I've read, some were dissapointed in the results of bullets being pushed beyond the design limits.

You took it as an attack on your cartridge choice, and that simply was not true.

You have to realize that anytime you make a post here or ANY forum, others will offer their comments, questions or advice.  In my case NONE of them were a cut.

As for the recoil and scope issue, again, I think you misread Quicks comments.  He commented on recoil energy figures, and you're talking muzzle flip.  Two different worlds.  AND he's only offering a suggestion to HELP you tighten the groups, should you choose.  You think everyone is down on you and I see it as you have a chip on your shoulder.

Knock the chip off and learn to understand, we are here to help, understand, and learn from you, as well as you from us.  Yours is the FIRST post I've read of anyone actually owning the 460 and I was concerned about the bullets holding up to the velocities you were getting.

Ease up man, no one is out to get you, or put down your rifle.  It's another big bore, all big bores are cool.  The 460 is a Corvette in a Vega body.

[Mac11700]

I can't understand why everyone wants to crawl up my stuff on this gun.  It may be that you're used to that NEF forum where EVERY group EVER fired is always sub MOA Roll Eyes. Unlike others on the internet I'm not going to cherry pick my good groups. Unlike some that may shoot a 2 4 and 8 groups in a sitting and then claim thier rifle produces " 2moa groups all day long" I'll actually tell you when I don't have a good group shooting day.

Good Golly 

That's a laugh...and isn't a reality...Some of us have gone to great lengths to make them shoot this well...but..most take some extra effort to make them consistently shoot this good...You just have to look up in the forums FAQ's to see that...

I'm glad to see you reporting about this cartridge..it looks to be a real good one...A couple questions for you...How much does your rig weigh ? How does it balance..? Also...do you think a little longer barrel would help with the muzzle flip or maybe even one of those muzzle brakes you can turn on or off..?

Thanks

Mac

[R.W.Dale]

I'm glad to see you reporting about this cartridge..it looks to be a real good one...A couple questions for you...How much does your rig weigh ? How does it balance..? Also...do you think a little longer barrel would help with the muzzle flip or maybe even one of those muzzle brakes you can turn on or off..?

 Thanks!

 My rig as outfitted weight just over 6 lbs  Even with the truncated barrel as with all encore's balance is spot on. I would imagine a longer barrel would help. Like Quickdtoo I've also fired a 375H&H encore and found eye relief to be much less critical on that rig than my 460. On a scale of 1 to 10 on  muzzle flip 1 being a .22lr and 10 being this rifle I would put the 375 at 7 and my old survivor stocked 500S&W handi at 8 or so.

 In the end I'll probably have a scorehighgunsmithing.com brake installed. I had one on a 300wby and found it to be extremely effective. But I don't know if it will work as well with the high expansion ratio of the straight walled case.

 

[handirifle]

Was the barrel always that short?

[R.W.Dale]

Was the barrel always that short?

 Yes, the katadhin carbine barrels are 20" or shorter.