New 44 mag info?

[handirifle]

Are the new 44 mag barrels any better than the older ones were, for bore size and twist rate?

[quickdtoo]

Those that have bought new barrels this year and slugged them report .430". I'll be sending a frame in for a 44mag and 357mag barrels as soon as the 357mag barrel rush is over.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,119131.msg1098393701.html#msg1098393701

[MSP Ret]

Tim, When you get that .44 Mag barrel back please slug and mic it for those us that are still waiting to see if the new barrels mic out to .429-.430...Thanks....<><....

Now that I have my .35 Remington barrel and my lightweight .22-250 barrel I am thinking of a .44 Mag. I would still like my .45 ACP Handi but I am starting be become nervous about getting it in a reasonable amount of time. Of course a .41 Mag would be nice too...but if I had my choice a .45 ACP barrel would be my next acquisition!!!   

[greg916]

41 mag, one of the most underrated calibers, that would be a hoot!!

[murphdog]

Handirifle,

I purchased a 44 mag Handi rifle (my first Handi ever) several weeks ago from a local gunshop, hoping to use it this coming deer season (44mag was just legalized in Indiana).  Because of complaints that I'd heard of about the microgroove 44mag barrels, I made sure it was a 2007 model and had Ballard-style rifling (serial #HX281xxx).  A tightly patched cleaning rod makes about a half turn in the length of the barrel (half turn in 19 inches), suggesting they are still using the 1:38 rate of twist.  Looking into the muzzle, it has 6 lands and grooves.  Two grooves (opposing grooves) are deep and easily seen.  The other 4 grooves appear to be shallower and are harder to see, but can be seen with a good light.  I have never slugged a barrel before, so I can't guarentee I did this right, but I tried to follow the instructions given in the FAQs.   I used a fairly cheap Vernier caliper to measure the land (bore) and groove diameters, and my results were as follows.  Bore diameter of the three opposing pairs of lands were 0.423", 0.423", and 0.422".  Groove diameter of the three opposing pair of grooves were 0.429", 0.426", and 0.426" (suggesting that 4 of the grooves actually are shallower).  As to accuracy, I have been very disappointed in this rifle.  So far, I have only shot it at 50 yards from the bench.  I've put about 65 rounds through the gun so far.  With its favorite ammo (Remington 240gr SJHP) it has averaged 2.2 inch 3-shot groups at 50 yards.  Other rounds (Hornady 300gr XTP, Winchester 250gr Partition Gold, and Winchester 210gr Silvertip) have averaged 2.7 to 2.9 inch groups at 50 yards.  This is my first post on this forum.  Hope it helps you.

Duane (murphdog)

[Mallard57]

I bought a 44 Mag Handi about four or five months ago, I too got several different groove diameters but they averaged out to about .430.
                                                             Jeff
                                                                 

[murphdog]

I guess mine average out to be .427 inches.  I'm surprised it turned out to be so tight.  I wonder if I measured it correctly.  If I find the time, I may try slugging it again.  I'm not entirely certain that my slug completed filled the grooves. 
     Duane

[quickdtoo]

Welcome aboard, Duane!! Try using a dowel in the bore under and on top of the slug so you can pancake the slug between them, I cut a dowel so it's about 21" long for a 22" barrel, put the barrel muzzle up on a board on the concrete basement floor, put the egg sinker in the lubed bore and tap it in against the dowel, them use a  hammer on a short length of dowel against the slug to flatten the slug between the dowels, you'll end up with a nice slug that is a perfect mold of the bore. For a 44mag, I'd use a 3/8" dowel.

Tim

[murphdog]

Tim,
Thanks for the tips.  Actually, I had tried to pancake it between 3/8" dowels the first time, but I don't think I got good expansion of the slug.  What I did this time was to take a hammer and anvil and preshape my slug (egg sinker) to slightly over bore diameter (about .440"), and then grease it and lightly tap it into the muzzle with a wooden mallet, so that it engraved the lands and grooves on the way in.  (I was kind of afraid to do this, but then remembered that my muzzleloading conicals always engrave as I short start them, so muzzle steel should be able to handle it.)  After getting it into the barrel, I pancaked it to make sure, and then pushed it back out.  It made a good casting of the lands and grooves. 

So, to UPDATE THE MEASUREMENTS I gave previously, the correct groove diameter on my new 44mag handi barrel is about .429" (average of .429", .429", and .428"), and the land diameter is .423".  Again, rate of twist is 1 in 38".  (Sorry I gave bad data earlier.)

FWIW, I checked the calibration of my vernier caliper by measuring some automotive feeler gauges, and it appears to be properly calibrated. 

Still, I wish this gun would shoot Hornady XTPs as accurately as my muzzleloader does.  I haven't yet figured out why its not shooting well. 

Duane

[Ranger J]

How fast are you driving the billets?  My now departed .44 mag barrel was .432 and the only close to acceptable groups I got were with the Hornady bullets, perhaps because they were.430, driven by a heavy load of H110.  I can't remember the load right now but was from the Lee reloading book.  It was somewhat hotter than a factory load.  I got similar accuracy from the 180gr bullets but not as good with the 240 gr. ones.    What bugged me was that just when I thought I was making some progress with the barrel the next time I took it out with the same load it must have been the wrong phase of the moon or something because the groups went to****.  What I really wanted from a .44 barrel was one that would shoot low power cast bullets well enough to say shoot cans at 50 yards.  It is encouraging that the size of the bores seemingly is coming down but I think I'll wait a while before I order another one.  It would sure help if Handi came out with a 1in 20-twist rate like my Deerfield has.

RJ

[murphdog]

Ranger,
I haven't chronographed it yet, but I'm only shooting factory loads, so I assume bullet velocity is close to what the manufacturers claim (i.e. 1760 fps for a 240 grain bullet, probably a little slower for the 300 grain Hornadys).  Unfortunately, I don't reload, but I may have to take that up to get this gun to shoot well.  Like you, a local guy who likes his 44mag Handi reportedly gets good accuracy from 300 grain Hornadys over a "heavy" powder charge.  Before I enter the world of handloading, I will try reducing the trigger pull (my handi rifle has an extremely heavy trigger pull) to see how much that helps.  I agree that a faster twist rate should help the longer bullets.  But the 300 grain Hornadys (with a sabot) shoot surprisingly well out to 75 yards (2.1-inch groups) in my muzzleloader which only has a 1 in 48 rate of twist.  I'm shooting those with a fairly light charge (80 grains of FFg Goex), which chronographs at 1300 fps.  I've heard a lot of good things about the Deerfield and I'll bet you really enjoy it.  I looked around for some, but didn't find any, and from what I saw on Gunbroker.com they were probably out of my price range.  Maybe I should have saved my pennies a little longer. 
     Duane

[murphdog]

Sorry to reopen this thread but I wanted to update my comments, in case anyone reads it while deciding whether to order a 44 magnum barrel.  I was initially disappointed in my new 44 magnum rifle.  But I have since determined that its inaccuracy was due to a poorly fitted barrel that would lock up inconsistently with the receiver, sometimes leaving a .004 inch gap between the barrel and the breech face.  Once I started correcting for this inconsistency (carrying a feeler gauge to the range, and only shooting when I got complete closure of the action), the rifle started shooting very nice groups with factory ammo.  As far as I can tell, the 44 magnum barrel itself is very good. 
Duane

[gomerdog]

Today I took my 30/06 Handi out to the range along with an additional 44Mag. barrel that I bought a few months ago. I was not overly impressed with the groups I was getting with the 06 and 200 gr. Accubonds. They were acceptable for short range elk hunting, which is where I've shot most of my elk anyway.  I then put on the 44 Mag barrel and shot a 3-shot group using a load with a healthly dose of H-110 and 320 grain WLNGC bullets from Cast Performance. The group looked to be about 1.5 inches, center to center. I don't know if this barrel is one of the newly manufactured ones, but it seems to shoot heavy bullets over a maximum charge of H-110 the best. I get groups about the same size with a max load of H-110 and Hornady 300 gr. XTP's, also. I had a fleeting but reoccurring thought to use the 44 mag for elk when the season opens on Oct. 1.....I'm still pondering.

[Ranger J]

Is anyone having any luck shooting say 240 gr. cast bullets at modest speeds out of their .44 barrel? 
That is what I would be interested in having a .44 Handi barrel for.  I have a Deerfield that shoots jacketed bullets at high speeds great.  The problem is that it takes a goodly charged load to cycle the gun and the directions expressly say not to shoot cast in it.  My 1894 Marlin also doesn't start to turn in good groups until I load it with Hornady bullets with a hefty load of H110 behind them.  Has anyone shot low speed cast bullets (of normal size I am not interested in purchasing expensive oversize bullets) in their new Handi barrels?
RJ

[quickdtoo]

RJ, it seems to me the .444 with it's 1:20" twist might be a better choice, the slow 1:38" twist in the 44mag barrel may be at fault there.

Tim

[Ranger J]

Another possibility might be to find a Ruger lever gun, if only they weren't so ugly.    From the looks of things it has the same 1 in 20 barrel that my Deerfield does.  Ruger also at one time made a bolt gun in .44, I believe but those never seem to be on dealer's racks.   I really would like to have a single shot.  My first gun was a Savage over and under with the .22 on top and the .410 on the bottom.  I literally shot the sights off that gun and got so I didn't need them anymore, I just pointed and shot.  The gun has a crack in the stock where both it and I tumbled down a hard frozen hillside while chasing rabbits when I was about 17.  After thousands and thousands of shots being put through it still closes tight without a sign of a wiggle.  It was bought before that gun had a scope grove on it and I had a gunsmith braze one to the .22 barrel.  That gun now sets in my closet with a red dot sight on it and is my favorite squirrel gun to this day.  Sorry to get so nostalgic about my first gun although I bet there are a lot of you who can relate to this kind of thing.  I really don't want to get the .444 as I have a couple of 45/70s, one a Handi and the other an 1895 Marlin, both of which shoot well.  I just may have to give away that bunch of cast bullets I have on my loading bench and if the new .44s keep getting good reports, get one and see if I can get it to shoot jacketed loads at factory speeds.  I would be happy to be able to consistently break clay birds at fifty yards.  I just like the feeling of shooting a single shot.

RJ