Author Topic: Easy as pie NO MOD #11 conversion for the newer Huntsmans/Sidekicks!!! (Read 6692 times)

Busta · « **on:** August 27, 2007, 04:15:08 AM »

I had been kicking around the idea for over 4 years now, and just put my idea to the test yesterday. I have mentioned this before, a few years ago, hoping someone already had what was needed to test this without me having to buy before try. This conversion would be nice for the States that do not allow 209 primers. You do not need to change breech plugs, and you still use your 209 carriers, but no 209's.

All you need to do is buy a pack of the Knight ORIGINAL orange DISC's with the #11 nipples included. Or better yet, find a buddy that owns an original Knight DISC rifle that does not shoot the #11's and take his #11 nipples. I bought a 25 pack of orange DISC's with 10 #11 nipples included. The orange DISC's are worthless to me, but the #11 nipples are priceless. You will not need to modify anything, these fit and work perfectly. Take the #11 nipple and insert it into the business end of the 209 carrier.....push a #11 cap on nipple inside the carrier.....insert carrier into breech plug.....close action.....point in safe direction.....cock hammer.....pull trigger.....BANG!!!

I have only fired caps without a powder charge, but this is going to work. I fired 6 Remington #11 caps, then 6 RWS 1075 Plus (#11) caps in a row. Went bang every time! I will be testing this out with actual powder loads hopefully during the week, or this weekend. I did have some residue from the caps, but if I had fired 12 209's in a row, I would have had a horrible mess. Hard to say how much mess will be there when firing actual powder loads, but I honestly don't think it will be as bad as using 209's.

Just thought that someone would be interested, and if you have a buddy with and original DISC, you could try it for nothing. I paid $15 for the 25 DISC's w/#11 nipples. I got the ones with the stainless steel nipples, but they also had them in black. I did examine the nipple and my firing pin after this experiment, while only 12 strikes, both still looked like new. I can't imagine ever wearing out the firing pin, but if you did, all you need to do is punch out the top receiver pin and insert a new one. Easy as pie!

Knight Percussion D.I.S.C.'s #901106.

ftw · « **Reply #1 on:** August 27, 2007, 10:26:09 AM »

That is very interesting. I knew it was only a matter of time before inquiring minds started coming up with fixes for some of the H&R inherent problems.
I have never seen one of the Knight Discs or nipples but I have used regular nipples before. Looking at my H&R primer carrier, what holds the knight nipple in place or keeps it from being pushed through? Any chance of a picture. Thanks.

Next someone will discover the hammer from some common firearm will work perfectly as a low mount hammer for all handis.

Busta · « **Reply #2 on:** August 27, 2007, 02:55:57 PM »

ftw,

Sorry but my camera is not working. The #11 nipple insert is put in the carrier from the breech plug side, it has a shoulder that is slightly wider than the opening for the 209 primer. The body of the nipple is the same size as a 209. Once inserted in the carrier, the nipple is held in place between the carrier and the breech plug. You can cap the nipple inserts before or after inserting into the primer carriers. You could have several of these made up for a hunting situation, or just recap the one you just fired.

The problem I see is these nipple inserts are no longer on Knights web page, but the place I bought mine had at least a dozen more packs. If you want this option, you might want to call Knight, they may have just the nipple inserts you could buy from them. They would be "#11 percussion nipple inserts for the original orange Knight D.I.S.C.".

As far as the hammer, I think we are stuck with what we have.

ftw · « **Reply #3 on:** August 27, 2007, 10:41:44 PM »

OK, I can see it now. I will have to see if I can come up with some of those if my Handi ML ever gets back from H&R.

davey · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2007, 04:17:18 PM »

how does your new #11 conversion compare to the 25acp ?if shooting is same ;seems to be better conv ---would it use pyro pellets ok also?

Busta · « **Reply #5 on:** September 01, 2007, 02:03:01 PM »

Range Report.

The #11 conversion worked well for the first 5 shots, then blowback fouled the firing pin enough to make it stick. I was shooting 777 FFg and T/C Cheap Shots for this test. First up was 70 grains with the RWS primers, ignition was instant and the 3 shot group measured a hair over 2". Next group was 80 grains and Remington primers, group measured 1-1/16". I was able to get the firing pin moving again with a little alcohol pad. The Remington primers worked best for this njpple, due t the RWS being slightly on the tight side.

While ignition was very good and this conversion would work well for hunting, it may not be the best for several shots at the range. The primer carrier did not show any of the wash out like when using 209's, so would probably last for several shots.

Back to the .25 ACP for me.

Busta · « **Reply #6 on:** April 04, 2008, 10:54:06 AM »

Well I finally have gotten around to taking some pics of this set-up. I am just posting a picture here, you can read about the R&D, testing, and range report in my posts above. This set-up works, but you will have blowback (like the 209's) and the firing pin will need attention after about 5 shots. The upper left carrier is what gave me the idea, it is from the original Knight D.I.S.C. rifle.

Swampman · « **Reply #7 on:** October 05, 2008, 03:52:37 PM »

I wish this would have worked a little better since I have 800 #11 caps, 5 lbs of blackpowder, and a ton of .490 roundballs that I would have liked to practice with.

preventec47 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 30, 2008, 05:20:57 AM »

I have never shot a muzzle loader so I dont have an appreciation
with what is called Blow-Back. I read above where the firing
pin is sticky after five shots due to crud buildup.

Would it not be possible to keep a can of WD 40 close by
and spray some in the firing pin hole every couple of shots
and then maybe a few dry fires to get some firing pin
movement in there to clean the crud out ?

Or how bout a tooth brush for a little scrub action
around the firing pin hole after every shot ?
I'm just thinking out loud until I am able to shoot
one for myself and see first hand what the problem
is.

Busta · « **Reply #9 on:** October 30, 2008, 06:40:06 AM »

preventec47,

Good idea about the tooth brush, but maybe alcohol for the cleaner. The WD-40 might get a little messy after a few shots and may not be good for the stocks and trigger guard. Brake cleaner works great, but you don't want any plastics or stocks around when you use it as a spray. A small amount on a Q-Tip works great to clean up the crud, but dont get any on anything that is not metal.

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 30, 2008, 07:15:08 AM »

Windex works great.

Busta · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2008, 07:45:43 PM »

For Slack Daddy. This is one way you can make your 50 caliber shoot #11 caps, but read the problems first. It would work much better with a big flat firing pin like the older 70's Huntsmans had.

Slackdaddy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 02, 2008, 12:58:13 PM »

Busta,
Thanks for the heads up.
I like the #11's cause I keep the #11 capper on a lanard around my neck, and never understood the whole going to a 209 primmer, then spending money converting guns to try to tame the "over powered" 209 primer

I have never had a problem with the old #11's in My T/C black Diamond.

Many years ago I had a M/L barrel for my Mossberg 500, 1st hunt of slug season the gun failed to fire a slug shell, the pin was fouled up from using the M/L barrel.
Now the Black Diamond has a LARGE hammer/bolt that hits the primmer, no small parts to foul up.

I am going to build a H&R USH/huntsman combo for next year, but have worries about reliability of the firing pin after using the huntsman barrel ??
what is the "cleanest" primer setup with the huntsman ??

Thanks,

Nick

Busta · « **Reply #13 on:** October 19, 2011, 08:12:19 PM »

There is a gentleman from Idaho looking for a #11 conversion for his Huntsman/Sidekick that wouldn't use the primer carriers, does anyone know of one out there. I think Ben Hubbards older 7/8" breech plugs with the 209 adapter will accept a 1/4" - 28 #11 nipple, and the primer carrier slot should suffice for the "open to the elements" requirement.

Has anyone converted a late model Huntsman/Sidekick to #11 primer ignition, in either the 5/8" or 7/8" breech plugs.

This is one option, but not for the PacNorWest States.

The Knight and CVA 5/8" - 18 TPI #11 breech plugs could also be modified to work by turning a little material off the face, but I think Ben Hubbard may be the only chance for a 7/8" - 20 TPI plug.

Thanks for any ideas.

tom99353 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 11, 2011, 02:13:13 AM »

I would like to convert a newer huntsman to take the #11 caps. I find Mr. Hubbards name popping up but I can't find any contact info for him. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks

PHATINJUN · « **Reply #15 on:** November 11, 2011, 06:04:57 AM »

I think his contact information is in the faq's. Kurt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** November 11, 2011, 11:46:01 AM »

Contact info is in the FAQs sticky above.

Tim

Busta · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2011, 06:54:41 AM »

Hey Guys, I finally got around to putting a #11 Knight Red Hot nipple in my Hubbard 209 breech plug, and it is a GO!

Here are some pics of it in my Huntsman with the 7/8" breech plug. I think there are several possibilities that could be modified to work in the 5/8" guns.

Just remember this will be only good for a few shots before your firing pin will need some tending to. Good for a hunt, but a pain for a long range session.

Wish I had more time, but I have a new toy to go wring out!

Hunter6657 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2011, 04:14:47 PM »

I just got one of the 209 carrierless breechplugs and its good to go with no firing pin fouling--at least with blackhorn 209 powder and extremely accurate with the Hornady 350gr FPB bullets. I'd put it up against my CVA Optima Elite 45-70.

tom99353 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 22, 2011, 05:27:16 AM »

I did contact Mr. Hubbard and we had a great conversation about converting from 209 primers to #11 caps. I modifired my 7/8 plug by drilling and tapping the hole to 1/4"-28 tpi. I then increased the depth of the hole to acomidate the longer #11 nipple. I tried keeping with the same fireing pin but as mr. Hubbard surmised fireing wasn't 100% dependable, so I made a new fireing pin with a larger pin dia. for reliable detination. It's at 100% on caps with no powder but ready for the range.