Author Topic: Free energy...  (Read 3297 times)

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Offline Matt

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Free energy...
« on: August 29, 2007, 10:13:53 PM »
Want to cut your energy cost? well you can and would you believe you can run your car on water? or at least the hydrogen & oxygen in the water.  wow.... good stuff check it out when you got time

Google ----- Stanley Meyer  to learn more.

[yt=425,350]bqfiAXIs3Xc[/yt]

Matt
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Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2007, 11:16:07 PM »
here is another video of it all in action useing common items to build the generator

You can find the how to info here: http://freenrg.info/Stanley_Meyer/D14.pdf

[yt=425,350]KLoz4XiHXpQ[/yt]
[yt=425,350]fDyJxVTq7pM[/yt]
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
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Offline magooch

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2007, 04:01:33 AM »
Yeah right.  But here in the real world....
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Offline DDelle338

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2007, 05:21:43 AM »
I can not believe that if it realy did work as claimed that there wouldn't be many people involved in making it happen right now.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2007, 11:36:43 AM »
“Yeah right.  But here in the real world....”

“I can not believe that if it realy did work as claimed that there wouldn't be many people involved in making it happen right now.”


Look you know; I really do not care one way or the other what you think. I am sharing this information with as many people as I can while I can. The technology is real it does exist and does work.  Currently there is several hundred thousand people researching and working on it and it does what they say. I have started assembly of the electronics for my test system and will post pics of it and it in action in a few days.

I intend to use a 10kw generator as my test power plant to see if the hydrogen really has enough stored energy to run the generator under a load. If it will and the system is as stable as they say I intend to lower my $400.00 a month power bill with it.

I also plan to do some research on the possibility of converting my gas heating system to hydrogen (if possible) to use as back up or supplemental heating.

Folks I don’t know about most of you but I live in a 3600sqft house that is 2 stories on top of that. The house is close to 30 years old and the R factor for any of the insulation is about nil in my opinion. With $400 power bill in the summer and $400 gas bills in the winter plus $200 for power I stand to save $6k per year on average. I can do this for about $1500 if I buy the generator from Heathers Grandfather. I really do not think that 10kw will be needed but not sure yet.

Laugh if you want say it is BS but in the end it is only you that will lose. Do a little research, the information is out there along with the proof it is real.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2007, 09:50:42 PM »
For those of you that did not think it possible because the media had not told you so... I guess you had the tv off when this aired.

[yt=425,350]QdVevvgM3ho[/yt]

Here is a link about the ner fuel cells...

http://www.green-energy-news.com/arch/nrgs2007/20070102.html
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
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Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 09:52:59 PM »
Funny thing... when I posted the last video and the page refreshed I was confronted with many google ads on the very same thing we are talking about... wow... hmm... nah gotta be a scam... remember the media has not told us it is real yet...


WAKE UP PEOPLE !!!!

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline flabbydan

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2007, 05:14:56 AM »
 8) Intriguing!  8)

Offline toysoldier

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2007, 04:05:49 PM »
1) If it sounds too god to be true, it probably is.

2) There's a sucker born every minute.

3) A fool and his money are soon parted.

There are probably other well-know sayings which are applicable, but I think these pretty well cover it.

The energy potential of hydrogen is well-known. The processes for separating water into its elements are much-studied. Great effort has been expended in looking for a catalyst that would make the process energy-efficient, that is, it would produce more energy than it consumed. It hasn't happened yet.

Let me know if you spot any unicorns.

Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2007, 08:51:17 PM »
Well your ignorance is obvious; I have successfully built a small scale fuel cell now with promising results.

Using nothing more than a laptop power supply operating at 18v DC with a max 3amp output and 2 stainless steel tubes I was able to produce enough hydrogen to maintain a makeshift torch and cut a 1/8” piece of steel plate.

I used tap water with 1 tbl spoon of salt per liter. The reaction started instantly when power was applied but took about 1min of operation before it produced a steady flow of hydrogen.

I tried to use my digital camera to record each step but for what ever reason it didn’t work so I will be going to GB’s house and snagging his digital video cam so I can document each step for all you nay sayers…

Folks it works…. Believe it….

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline DDelle338

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2007, 01:37:37 AM »
“Yeah right.  But here in the real world....”

“I can not believe that if it realy did work as claimed that there wouldn't be many people involved in making it happen right now.”


Look you know; I really do not care one way or the other what you think. I am sharing this information with as many people as I can while I can. The technology is real it does exist and does work.  Currently there is several hundred thousand people researching and working on it and it does what they say. I have started assembly of the electronics for my test system and will post pics of it and it in action in a few days.

I intend to use a 10kw generator as my test power plant to see if the hydrogen really has enough stored energy to run the generator under a load. If it will and the system is as stable as they say I intend to lower my $400.00 a month power bill with it.

I also plan to do some research on the possibility of converting my gas heating system to hydrogen (if possible) to use as back up or supplemental heating.

Folks I don’t know about most of you but I live in a 3600sqft house that is 2 stories on top of that. The house is close to 30 years old and the R factor for any of the insulation is about nil in my opinion. With $400 power bill in the summer and $400 gas bills in the winter plus $200 for power I stand to save $6k per year on average. I can do this for about $1500 if I buy the generator from Heathers Grandfather. I really do not think that 10kw will be needed but not sure yet.

Laugh if you want say it is BS but in the end it is only you that will lose. Do a little research, the information is out there along with the proof it is real.

Matt


  What I meant was that if in fact it did work as easily as he claimed, and as shown in the video and he had actualy taken the project that far that there would be more people (companies/engineers) doing it. I think that there were some smoke and mirrors involved in this particular instance. And I don't buy into the whole "thieves broke in and stole the goods" part of his story.

  I didn't mean that the whole hydrogen concept didn't work. As a matter of fact I met a chemical engineer at a combustion course I attended that is working in the field. He (and his company) have been making fuel cells for use in appartments and condos for some time now. It does work. They generate electricity to power the whole building, and one of the byprducts is hot water, that is then used to heat the entire building. Real neat stuff. He called me for some assistance in the design of the combustion section of one of his new models. I just wish I would have had the opportunity to spend time learning about how all the rest of it worked.  And I do plan on working on getting this in my home. But making the system work on a fully mobile platform is where the problems come.
  Good luck on your system.  Keep the updates coming.
              Have a good day
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Offline Brett

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2007, 02:36:43 AM »
Oh oh... He screwed up by getting the 'Govment' and the auto industry involved, they are sure to kill it or make it or tax it to the point where only the wealthy can afford it.  :(   

TM7 - If radio waves are what separates the H from the 2O how come our microwave ovens are not turned into Hydrogen bombs when we heat water in them?  :o

Matt - How are your tests going?  Does the energy required to separate the H from the 2O outweigh the energy you derive from burning the H ?   

This is an interesting subject.  Please keep us informed as to your progress or any other info you find on the subject.
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Offline toysoldier

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2007, 12:48:44 PM »
You should be very cautious running electricity through salt water. That process can also produce chlorine gas. Can't use that hydrogen if you kill everyone in the house with chlorine.

Offline DalesCarpentry

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 01:05:33 PM »
Matt. How did this project work out? Thanks Dale
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 01:20:47 PM »
Yeah Matt, share with us how this turned out? Many here would love to try it if it works.
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Offline Matt

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2008, 10:59:51 PM »
The project was lost in the fire and I have not really had the time to devote to it since. I was able to run a small makeshift torch and was also able to run my lawnmower on the hydroxy gas that my small scale model made. I will say that until such time that I can figure a way to convert the water just before it is needed I don't think I would put it on my car. I have played with the gas it makes and the stuff is no joke. The explosive power off just a few bubbles is enough to shatter a small glass.

It has much potential that I can see just needs more work I think to really be safe enough for me to put my kids in the car running it. Also please note that you have to advance the timing on a engine running hydroxy so I am not sure I buy into the whole add this and help save on fuel cost deal some are pitching but I have not tested it so cant say for sure but I know what I had to do to get it to work.

Matt
Any fool can know. The point is to understand.”
― Albert Einstein

Offline rex6666

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2008, 10:07:22 AM »
Their was a talk radio program about this here in the DFW area about 2-3 weeks ago, several people called
in saying they were running their cars with fuel cells. None of these people said how far, or how long it took
to refuel, all said it worked, but sounded like it was more of a hobby than anything else, the technology
has been around quite a while, must be some reason some one is not making big bucks on it, their is also a guy that can burn saltwater. no one is buying him out. All seems TOO GOOD.
Rex
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Offline wanderer

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2008, 04:38:07 PM »
I couldn't get the videos to work except for the one about the guy with the torch and car conversion (Fox News I believe), but I am guessing (please correct me if I am wrong, because I honestly don't know, and it wouldn't be the first time) that they talk about either fuel cells or the mysterious concept of "HHO." If this is not the case, feel free to ignore all of this if you wish and please let me know so I can retry the videos at at later date. I try to be open minded about things, but this stuff (if it is what I think it is) is way too good to be true.

FACT: Neither of them get you free energy. Why?  It's quite simple really and it can be proven with fundamental chemistry. I feel that, while I am no expert, I do have a good understanding of basic chemistry and thermodynamics. I took several thermo courses as well as chemical engineering courses and none of this adds up according to the laws which govern reactions.

The chemical reaction for electrolysis is 2H2O --> 2H2 + O2 . This reaction is reversible and has a heat of reaction just like every other chemical reaction. The heat of reaction when you split water by electrolysis (or any other method for that matter) is 286 Kilojoules/mole, if memory serves me correctly. This means that to turn one mole (18 grams or just a little under a half fluid ounce) of water into hydrogen and oxygen you must supply 286 KJ. And when you recombine the two you get 286 KJ out. And this is if your conversions are 100% efficient. That's right, even if your set up was 100% efficient you would only break even in terms of the energy balance.

The same thing applies to the HHO business and any other similar load of horse hockey. For the sake of argument, lets assume that there really is such a thing as HHO (which I doubt, but I can't say with 100% certainty). Converting water to HHO would require a certain amount of energy and when you converted the HHO back to water you would simply get the energy that you put in back out, assuming that everything was 100% efficient.

They torch that was mentioned in the one video that I was able to see was likely just a oxy-hydrogen torch, which is exactly like an oxy-acetylene torch, except the hydrogen is the fuel instead of acetylene. These torches have been used on a fairly limited basis in industrial applications for years, but they are generally a real pain in the rear because the fuel mix must be almost exactly right. I laughed when they heated the brass ball. Hit a brass ball with an oxy-acetylene torch. The same thing will happen. As far as the comment about the flame being hotter than the surface of the sun, well I doubt that. Even if it was true, the surface of the sun really isn't that hot. Now the core of the sun, well that's another story.

Anyway, the point I'm really trying to make is that:

The fact of the matter is that if your feedstock is water and your end product is water, you will only be losing energy. No matter what you do.

On the other hand, in the green energy news link, a company was mentioned that is using solar energy to split water. That is perfectly legitimate approach because solar energy is used to split the water. And solar energy is probably the closest thing to "free" energy we will ever see.

Flame on.  ;D All good.

Offline wanderer

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2008, 05:37:27 AM »
Well, the radio waves are providing the energy required to split the water in that case (remember radio waves are nothing but the wireless transmission of electrical energy). It really doesn't matter how you split the water, the reaction will require the same amount of energy. As far as the bonds being tricked apart, the changes in enthalpy must balance. The change in enthalpy (the heat of reaction) is the enthalpy of the products minus the enthalpy of the reactants.

The law of conservation of energy and Hess's law both directly apply to any water-based hydrogen system. The law of conservation of energy says that you must put in as much energy as you want to get out of a reaction. The reaction may change the energy forms, but energy can't be created or destroyed.

Hess's law provides an interesting way of looking at things. It states, "The total energy change for a chemical reaction is independent of the route by which the reaction takes place." The law states that the energy change of a reaction is the same regardless of what pathway is taken to achieve the products. In other words, only the feedstock and end products matter to the reaction, not the individual steps between. You can calculate the change in enthalpy using only the net reaction and ignore intermediate steps.

In the case of the water to hydrogen to water reaction, no matter how it is carried out, think of it this way: if you have a glass of water sitting in front of you, how much energy must you supply or would you get out if you turned that water into water? Well, obviously none, it's already water. Now let's say you turn the water into hydrogen and oxygen and then recombine them back into water. You basically turned water into water with a couple individual steps. Consequently, you gain no more energy than you would if you had just let the water sit. And that's assuming everything is 100% efficient.

Like you said, TM7, Tesla did some pretty amazing things (if everything works as claimed), unfortunately I'm not all that familiar with the electrical side of things, so I really don't understand much of it and I won't judge his experiments one way or the other because of that. Wish I would have taken more advanced physics classes.

Have a good one,

wanderer

Offline SDS-GEN

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2008, 06:09:18 AM »
"Water Torches"  have been available for some time.  All of them have a plug on them.  100watts in 20watts out.  I've never heard of anything that produces more energy than has been put into it.  I agree with Wanderer.

Offline deltecs

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2008, 12:39:17 PM »
Newton's laws of physics state that matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, but may be converted from one form to the other.  It is in this form change that some energy is released from the sum total.  Genereally into hear.  Since heat may be converted to a work source by a differential in temperature, it can be converted into motion.  Motion can be used to perform functions involving work, as defined as the ability to move matter.  The energy used to convert water into 2H-O, is expended to break the molecular bond.  This bond is easily broken using electricy, but general thought is that the electrical energy used is much more than the energy from the seperated atoms and not economically feasible.  But with the addition of frequency in an electrical field, the total energy needed may be substantially less to break this bond.  That may be the difference between economic feasibility or a waste of energy efficientcy.  We do know a magnet can break electron bonds with an efficiency exceeding 92%.  So only an 8% fuel source is needed to convert one type of energy to another with a very high effeciency of transmission and end work.  The same applies to the fuel cells.  It may take relatively little fuel to effeciently convert water into an energy source that does the same job as fossil fuels do at much higher expense.  Solar energy can be converted for use on hybred autos and still be effective and relatively inexpensive at the mile per gallon rate.  For those doubters, a typical auto battery is a type of fuel cell that converts chemical energy into electrical energy that can be stored.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Free energy...
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2008, 02:44:33 PM »
Like my old Physics professor used to say, "The three laws of thermodynamics are: 1. You can't win
 2. You can't break even   and 3. You can't leave the game."
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