Fifty Year Old Reproduction Zouave??

[Semisane]

Saw the following classified ad in today's local newspaper.

"58 Cal Zouave Musket Italian 1955 Reproduction Excellent $275"

I haven't called on it yet, but probably will.  I've seen pictures of the classic Zouave and reproductions, but don't really know anything about them.

Is this gun likely to be rifled or a smoothbore??

Without knowing any more than what you see in the ad, what do you think of the asking price? I figure the guy really wants $250 for the gun, and I could get it for that or maybe less.

[longcaribiner]

Back around 1978, I bought or traded for a slightly used Zouave Repro.  Marked Antonio Zoli and Italy on the Barrel, and get this, on the trigger guard it is marked "Sears, Robuck & Co." 

It should be rifled. Although if really made in the 1950's there's a possibility of anything.  The Centenniel of the Civil War was big doins here in the East and quite a few folks got into skirmishing.  If the guy were to say it was from 1965, I'd find that a bit more credible.  (In the 1950's you could buy originals cheaper than the Italians could make them.)    I remember my dad and uncles in the mid 1950's buying old percussion long rifles at farm auctions for $10 to $15 and shooting them later in the day.   (I was only 6 or 7)

My Zouave, is actually quite pleasant to shoot with PRB's and 60 grains of powder. (Very close to the original military load)  I have read that it was the best engineered muzzle loader gun of the war era, but was never really issued to US troops.

While it seems pretty accurate, The big wide military style sights are "verstutzed" and not capable of really fine accuracy.  (Verstutzed, a Pa Dutch term for "screwed up", or "not right"  The term can also apply to humans.)         I actually started my son at age 8 shooting the Zouave with 30 grains and PRB's, he did pretty well.  I am basically a flint lock shooter.  The percussion thing is not real popular here, but the gun is heavily made and would be my choice if I ever got a chance to hunt for bear or elk.

There were several different Italian manufacturers making Zouaves. Even CVA sold a Zouave for a year or two back around 1978.    Mine has a one piece barrel with welded bolster added and a breech plug screwed in.  Another brand used a one piece breech unit screwed into the barrel with a pipe nipple type union.  That one always struck me as being a weak system.   I'd check to see which it is.  If the first type, there will be no visible line around the barrel about 1 3/4 inches from the rear of the barrel.  Obviously, the weaker system will have a visible joint line running around the barrel at that point.    When I mean a pipe nipple, I really mean a pipe nipple.  The breech and barrel both have female threads and a two inch adapter is threaded with male threads on both ends and is screwed into both parts to make the union.  The barrel is actually in three pieces right where it is subject to the most pressure.  Some times you can feel the patch and jag hang up on the place where the barrel and the adapter meet in the bore.    If it is one of those weaker barrels I would never shoot over 60 grains in it.  But hey, it's your face.  If it is the good one, you can shoot up to 100 grains no problem. 

[Semisane]

Thanks for the info longcaribiner, I went and bought the sucker anyway.  Gave the guy $250 for the gun and 25 pounds of pure lead in one-pound ingots.

He says he bought it in 1955 when he was in the North-South Skirmish Association in Virginia, and used it for two years before cleaning it well, putting a heavy coat of grease in the bore, and hanging it over the fireplace.  Made in Italy & imported by Navy Arms Co.

[Saloon slug]

25Lbs of lead to boot now that is a sweet deal. I cant wait to see the range report.

[longcaribiner]

I actually have a good Zouave repro, marked Antonio Zoli and one of the "fer crap" barrels.  I checked last night.  The crappy one  is marked Euroarms.  Now, Euroarms has imported some good stuff over the years too.  I occasionally latch onto some items as demonstative of how things shouldn't be. 

[Semisane]

I think I got myself a good one too longcaribiner.  Did a little on-line research of Italian proof marks and found out it was proofed in 1964 and made by Giuseppe Zoli (Antonio's brother?).

Twist is 1 in 62". Bore is clean and smooth with no pitting. It has 3 lands and 3 grooves of equal width. Lands have sharp shoulders with just a slight bit of rounding on the first 1/8" at the muzzle. Grooves seem to be about .010 deep.

I'll be shooting it with patched round balls this Saturday.  In an earlier comment you said yours is pleasant to shoot with PRBs and 60 grains.  Have you put heavier loads through it? 

[longcaribiner]

I may have loaded it up with 80 grains for hunting once or twice, but I mostley just plink with it.    With the factory sights, mine tends to be about 5 inches high at 25 yds.  As I recall it still shot a few inches  high at 50 yds.  I don't believe I ever even tried it at 100 yds.  Mine has two nipples.  One for musket caps and one for No 11's.  In fact the extra nipple screws into a hole inside the patch box.

[Semisane]

Shot mine from a bench Saturday.  Hornady ball, 70 grains Jim Shockey's Gold, Wal-Mart Pillow Ticking patch.  Hardly any recoil.

Got a 1 & 1/2" five-shot group @ 25 yards.  Center of group was 6 & 1/2" above point of aim and 1" left.

Got a 6 & 1/4" five-shot group @ 50 yards.  Center of group was 12" above poine of aim and 1" left.  Group was a vertical string 1 & 1/2" wide.

Got a 4" three-shot group @ 100 yards.   Group was an equilateral triangle.  Aim point was an 8" round black "Shoot-N-C" target.  Center of the group was about 4" above the horizontal center line of the target and about 8" to the left of target center.

This thing could really shoot if it had better sights, or I had better eyes.  Those military iron sights were a bitch with my old bi-focal adjusted peepers.

First time I ever shot JSG powder.  I was expecting to be disappointed.  Boy, was I wrong.  The stuff shot great.  Lots of smoke, but very clean in the bore.  Ran one dry patch between shots and it loaded on each shot the same way it loaded on a clean barrel.

[simonkenton]

I have the Navy Arms brochure right here, and it says that Navy Arms was founded in 1956, so the guy was off by at least one year in his story of the origin of this gun.
I have to wonder if he meant 1965 instead of 1955.
At any rate, looks like you have a great rifle there!
This is the 2002 brochure, and it lists that rifle for $495, probably would cost much more today.
You might want to experiment with Minie balls in that rifle, that is what it was designed to shoot.
I really like the Zouave. I bought one 25 years ago from Dixie. I too shot round balls. I killed two deer, and one wild boar with that rifle.
Then, one day, I was at the range. A guy next to me was admiring my rifle. I got distracted.
I pulled the trigger, and the Zouave went "Poooooofffff."
The ball rolled out the barrel and landed in the dirt ten feet downrange. I had loaded the ball with the short starter, but forgotten to use the ramrod.
The weird explosion/burn of the powder caused the barrel to bulge slightly, up to where the ball had been, six inches from the muzzle.
Ruined. Ah well.

[Semisane]

Man, what a bummer SK.  I find it's easy to get distracted in the loading process when others are around and you get to talking.  I loaded a dry hole last Sunday for the very same reason.

That gun may have been ruined as a military musket, but cut the barrel down to 24" and modify it to a half stock sporter.  I'd bet that was done with a lot of the originals.

[simonkenton]

No, the barrel was ruined all but the 6 inches at the muzzle.
I realized later that I could buy a replacement barrel.
Too late, I had already given it to my worthless nephew, I don't know what I was thinking. He probably got ten bucks for it at the pawn shop.