HMS Victory and recoil control

[Double D]

I have been looking for detailed drawings of the 32 PD guns on the HMS Victory.  I sent an email to  Royal Navy Museum gift Shop and asked if they might have drawngs. They said they had a book that had the  drawings.  The  book HMS Victory, Her construction, career and resortation by Alan McGowan was only  15 Pounds. I checked ABEBooks.com  for a used book and found the book for 40 Pounds.   Guess where I bought the book.

The book came yesterday.  It's not what I wanted.   The drawing are not dimensioned nor in a form that leads to accurate scaling.  But they are incredible as to detail.  The entire book is incredbile.  If you ever wondered how those old wooden ships were constructed, this book is for l you. 

Some time back we had a discussion on the purpose of the block and tackle attached between the  truck and bulkheaded.  Well here are two drawings and the narrative, from the book that seems to confirm my theory that the  block and tackle were used to pull the guns back in battery and contain ther recoil.

The guns and gun ports. Guns were run out (hauled out) to the firing position. The recoil, controlled by the breech rope and the  tackles, was used to return it inboard for sponging out and reloading   after which it was run out again using the tackles.  A well drilled gun crew could fire a 32pdr at a rate of a little over a minute for each round.

[Artilleryman]

It must have been fun stepping over the ropes to work the gun.

[Cat Whisperer]

Interesting to see the two (sides) block and tackles attached at the breech end of the cannon.
Also interesting to see the one (end) block and tackle attached at the breech end.

[Terry C.]

Also interesting to see the one (end) block and tackle attached at the breech end.

In the photos and illustrations I've seen, the guns are stowed with their muzzles just behind the gun ports. Stands to reason they would need to be physically hauled back into the position shown to be made ready to fire. On subsequent shots, the recoil would do the work.

I've never noticed these blocks before. Is it possible that they were not permanently attached, and were stowed away when not needed? It would seem that this rigging would be in the way during combat.

[Double D]

Does this answer your questions or just create more?

[Rickk]

Here is the rigging on one of the rearmost, lower deck, port-side gun of the USS Constitution:

[Artilleryman]

Seeing all the rigging needed to hold the gun in place reminded me of the description of the havoc caused by a "loose cannon" in heavy seas.  It could cost a man his life trying to help bring a gun under control.  I also heard a guide aboard the Constitution when I was a kid say that when the guns heated up from firing that they would leave the deck when they hit the end of their ropes.

[Cannonball]

I believe your correct on the guns leaving the deck when fired. A short time ago we had a clip of an artillery carriage firing and it too left the ground. In slow motion you see the wheels skip back about a foot before they touch down and actually roll. Unfortunately, I forget the subject of the thread. But, I don't get how they would leave the deck at the end of their ropes, only the moment it fires. I can only imagine the stress on the carriage/ropes/pulleys and side of the ship, those look like HEAVY guns!

[GGaskill]

Any idea of the color of those English carriages?

[Artilleryman]

I have watched video of my field guns firing, and the slow motion shows the wheels not turning for the first foot.  I can only guess at why the guns on trucks leave the deck.  Would it be because the gun recoils to the end of the ropes and wants to go further and therefore leaves the deck.  Maybe it has something to do with firing on the upward roll of the ship.  It would be interesting to set up a gun and fire it with service loads and see what happens.

[GGaskill]

If the breeching tackle (the heavy rope) is mounted above the center of gravity of the gun, the rope will want to put some lift on the gun when it becomes fully stretched out.

[Monk]

If any of you guys are ever at or near Portsmouth you have to go see the Victory and while there don't miss the Warrior! I've been on the ship twice, it never ceases to amaze me, unfortunately most of the guns are replicas but its still incredible.
http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Heritage/Warrior/index2.html

[Monk]

Check out the tackle on the Warriors 110 pounder

[Double D]

The Trucks are yellow George.

[AlanD]

The 32 pounders were cast in Rotherham, Yorkshire and bored in an industrial hamlet called Burcroft were I was born. Burcroft in on the River Don between Rotherham and Doncaster. Burcorft is just below Conisborough Castle made famous by Sir Walter Scott in Ivanhoe.
The area was mainly an agricultural community until well into the 18th century when more industries came to the area. The Walker family of Masborough, Rotherham were iron founders and lead manufacturers between 1741 and 1893. A blacksmith's shop and two cottages and stable were built at Burcroft by Walkers in 1777 on they owned land in Burcroft near the River Don. In 1778 a grinding wheel and two houses were erected, and the second Newcomen engine was installed. Joseph Walker was placed in charge at Conisbrough. In 1779 they constructed a new boring mill there for the manufacture of cannon and it was here that cannon were bored for use in the Napoleonic Wars.
After the river was canalised in the mid 18th century (Locks on the river Don were put in at Burcroft in 1776) industries such as Walkers, were sited here for commercial transport rather than for water power.  Waterways were cheaper to use than was road transport and the railways had not yet come into prominence. By 1805 the ironworks had passed to John and Thomas Mullins who as forgemasters began to produce scythes, sickles, hooks and other agricultural implements. They were succeeded by William Linley and in 1847 by Thomas Booth and Sons, (Thomas and George). George took over the running of the firm in 1869 and held the business until Rawding, Blackburn and Rawding bought it in 1898. They retained the name of Booth and successfully exported their tools to all parts of Africa, Asia and the Pacific. Eventually Spear and Jackson took over the firm and made all kinds of edge tools until the closure of the works in 1976. The cottage built by Walkers were demolished in the early 1960 and the final mill building was pulled down in the 1980s.
Local historians have found cannon ball on the opposite side of the river to the works indicating the the canon may have been tested on site

[Cannoneer]

Welcome to the board AlanD, thanks for relating the history on the manufacture of the Victory's big guns.

[BoomLover]

Great bit of history on the ships and cannons of the Victory and the Warrior! Thanks to everyone who aded bits and pieces to the story! BoomLover