.410/45LC barrel and slug ?

[JerryKo]

Jerry, since you're basically working in no man's land here with no published data or pressure testing, I would prefer you don't post data. 

Thx,

Tim

 ;)I kind of figured that anyway.  But thanks for putting it out there.  Makes it easier for me.

Jerry

[Saloon slug]

Well sounds like you got it working for what you wanted. I may have to pick up one of these barrels and play with it.
I have been rolling this project around in my head since I first saw it. I think a 300-350 grain 30-1 cast bullet with a case full of black powder would make one heck of 200 and under express round. If nothing else it would make a ton of smoke.

I look forward to reading some longer range test.

[coyotejoe]

I wonder if anyone has tried the MagTec brass .410  2 1/2" shells. I don't know how safe they would be in the oversize .45 Colt chambers, I don't know how safe .444 brass is in a .45 Colt chamber, but would expect they would fireform more easily than .444 brass and they are .400" longer. Graf & Sons has them at $19.59 per box of 25.

[billy_56081]

Yes I have tried 410 brass cases with 300 grain SST muzzleloader bullets. Today was my first live fire and they grouped 1" at 25 yards with a hasty rest on my gun case on the bench. I am using starting trapdoor data for my loading. I am not trying to invent a 45-70 as i have one of those, just a lower recoil more effective .410 slug for my daughter to use in slug season in southern MN.




 

[PHATINJUN]

I am curious how well those bullets will open up on impact not only in the 410 but also from the ML has anybody recovered any from animals yet? Kurt

[quickdtoo]

If you research Savage smokeless ML reports, you'll find they work very well at ~2100fps and up, the 250gr has been used to ~2500fps.

Tim

http://www.gunweek.com/2003/feature0710.html

http://dougva.proboards34.com/v45index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thread=6022

[JerryKo]

 

Bad days at the range.  I was shooting some new project cases of 9.3x74R design for the 45/410.  First five shots were clocking good but holes looked funny and had about a 3"grouping.  I took a trip down range and saw they were keyed holes.  Scratching my head walking back to the bench I felt my gut stir as I remembered shooting some 410 shells a couple weeks ago!!!!  I left the choke in!  I'm glad the barrel is ok, but the choke tube is split.  I already have a new one in route,but turkey season just changed for my Son.

I also found out that Cleanshot with an air gap is unsafe for this project.  This happened with only 52 grains weighed(full 45-70 case) of 2fg.  I wanted to push a 250 grain lead bullet with this longer case but was afraid to fill case full as I did with 444 marlin brass and 405 grain lead bullet.  Obviously I judged incorrectly.  I had my smithy take a look at the chamber and has no harm done.  I did manage to chrony it tho.  It clocked 1780.  Just too fast anyway.  So I went with a 405 grainer and a compressed load of black powder and case stayed together and showed no signs  of high pressure.  I got an err2 on my chrony.  Too close for all the smoke I think.

On a better note I managed 1900+ with the 250gr SST's + smokeless,and one holed at 25 yds so this is looking like a much better option than the 444 marlin brass.  Although it comes at a price because of the case price and prep.  Over $24 for 20 cases.  Used hot lead dunk to anneal as per endtimes web page and fire formed with shotgun powder with a full load of crushed walnut.  I didn't have any cream of wheat.  Of course Tim is getting this with his 45LC barrel.  But I still do not have one.

I guess I'll do more reloading and try again at 50 and maybe if looking good, dare I say 100yds.

Jerry

[Saloon slug]

That sucks about your choke tube. Hopefully the new one shows up before the end of season so your son can bag a turkey.

[quickdtoo]

Stuff just seems to happen sometimes.

Tim

[JerryKo]

That stinks about your choke tube. Hopefully the new one shows up before the end of season so your son can bag a turkey.

Thanks for the concern, but its just a gameplan change.  He can still use his 20ga and full choke pardner set up.  He'll just have to keep himself calmer, and cheek the stock while aiming.


Jerry

[billy_56081]

I bought a pound of H4198 today and some more 300 grain SST's. Now I need to pick up some more magtech brass and some 250 grain SST's and do a bit of range work.

[JerryKo]

50 Yds

Very happy with the results so far.  I only made up (5) 9.3x74mmR cases to shoot the 250 gn SST bullets at 50 yds.  I shot slowly allowing the barrel to cool in the shade 5 minutes between shots. I am able to report that only the first shot was outside of the group and the last four were just over 3/4" center to center!!  I like this brass so far, and will continue to fire this load in these 5 cases until I get a loose primer pocket or any other evidence of  reaching case failure.  Chrony has been reading mid to high 1900's.  And also with this case I have been able to touch the rifling with a slightly long seated 250SST.  I would also be very happy to see if it could shoot the +300gr leads with BP or BP sub as well.

Fifty yards has been the ideal whitetail range for me in the woods, so this Handi is getting the number 1 spot on my deer hunting adventure this season.

After shooting for this group, I fired 5 more shells to complete fireforming on them and the barrel was very warm after just three.  After the fifth, it was HOT.

It was easier to find a good load quicker,but I also have a different procedure to load them with.  It took several tries to get one to chamber, and I may still change if I get a better idea.  Being the length of this case, it helped to have the 45-120 dies.  I am only using the neck expander die to slightly flare the neck to accecpt a bullet.  Neck tension has remained snug after firing a round, I think since it is annealed, and have not had to resize any to hold a bullet.  The 45/70 factory crimp die has not been used for this brass successfully.  I use a carbid Hornady 45lc sizer die with the decapper removed to make a 8th inch taper crimp and this has helped getting the round chambered fully.

As a passing thought, anybody working with the 444 Marlin brass, don't give it up yet.  I was starting to show very good progress with it, but it was becomeing too time consuming for me, and this other brass was calling to me to try.

Moving on to 100yds just to know for sure.

Jerry

[coyotejoe]

Jerry, if I understand your post you seem to be saying that a fired case will still tightly hold a new bullet. That is not good, the neck should have room to expand to release the bullet and if that is not happening a tight case can really run up the bullet pull and thus chamber pressure. Since you are already working in the dark as to pressure of your loads you really don't need another unknown factor involved. The 9.3x74R is a fairly high pressure round and the brass is certainly thicker than a brass .410 case and being longer than a .444 it also reaches deeper into the tapered chamber. Remember that only the rear of the chamber is .45 Colt diameter, the forward portion of the chamber tapers down to .410 size.  When you close the breech you may be wedging the brass very tightly onto the bullet. Please go carefully and then go even more carefully.

[JerryKo]

Joe,

Yes everyone should heed your warning.  I failed to mention I did trim back my case a little because of the taper.  I trimmed back to allow a .001" "Match" chamber to case wall.  So there is room, .0005 all around roughly, for neck expansion, be it minimal.     I am usure it the snug neck is a combination of this and annealing.  If someone would like to chime in have at it.  This is the first time I have annealed cases.  Lee collet dies I think say to improve neck tension say to anneal cases.  I'm going on my feable memory here.

Tim, a ? for you.  Is there a way (easily ) to have chamber reamed to eliminate the taper. it wouldn't be much material to remove.  I do not know how a 454 or 460 reamer works, i.e, if you can take it longer or if it has a fixed stop.

[quickdtoo]

Being rimmed cartridges, cutting should be stopped when it hits the bottom of the existing rim recess, but I've not done one, so I don't know that for sure, just going by those that have done maxi and super mag rechambers. If you continue to cut the chamber deeper, the rim recess would get deeper and there would be too much head space.

Tim

[JerryKo]

Thanks, I kind of figured that.  I wasn't sure if the rim was a part of it as a fixed one piece design or if it was two piece or varible.  A throating tool will only take out to slug dia and not chamber dia, is that correct?  A reamer at .475 -.478 would be perfect I think.

Jerry

[quickdtoo]

The throating reamers that I've used were only for the throat area, not chamber, but there may be straight reamers designed to do what you want, maybe a call to Fred at 4D would be in order,  ask him if he has what you need.

Tim