Author Topic: Are there any new primers being made????? (Read 6442 times)

ButlerFord45 · « **on:** March 22, 2009, 03:27:30 AM »

It would seem that if there were any being made some of the big distributers would change their availability information some where, some time?

MidSouth-none, Midway-none-NO BACKORDER!!! Graffs-none, Gamaliel-none, Natchez-very few and limiting what they'll sell, Mom & Pop-digging out those individual boxes of 100 from the 60's & 70's. Bullets aren't faring much better and powder trailing only a close third!!
Hoping this president has a massive coranary is a bad thing as well 'cause look what's next..Biden and Heaven help us..Palosi.
Anyone have a phone number for any of these manufacturers? Kinda makes me think that they are milking this out for WAY too long, a self induced shortage to create a much higher demand so they can jack the prices and everyone is so happy to just get a few primers they don't complain about the 50% price increase. Hey, it works for OPEK!
Trying to blame the military is bull flop as well, far fewer rounds been expended now and the coming build-up in Satnny Land isn't going to require every primer being produced by every manufacturer either.
I'm really starting to believe that there may be something rotten in Denmark.

BF

Carl l. · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:05:53 AM »

I was at Cabela's in Wheeling, WV. last Friday and they didn't have one primer. I went to another reloading store and they said they couldn't get them either. I smell a rat also. Carl L.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2009, 04:10:19 AM »

The manufacturers are basically working around the clock making bullets, primers, powder and ammo. It's being made right now at perhaps the highest rates ever in history. The problem is everyone is running scared and stocking up like never before. Not even the Y2K scare caused the level of stocking up that is going on right now.

Supplies are being bought as fast as it hits the shelves creating artificial shortages that really are hopefully temporary and are self induced as it is for the most part us shooters that are buying the stuff.

Dave in WV · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:14:40 AM »

Bill is right. Panic buying is the problem. I ordered powder and bullets in January on a guess this would happen.

Siskiyou · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:44:26 AM »

I agree with Bill. Panic buying has fed the frenzy. Some of the small shops still have a stock but at the rate the Obama Panic is going those stocks will disappear by summer.

Shotgun shells, and components seemed to have lasted longer but they are disappearing. Unlike earlier panics is the disappearance of reloading tools off the shop shelves, and Internet business are showing a lot of reloading tools as being out of stock. I have to admit to buying a few small items to make my loading easier, but nothing major.

I made a tour of a few shops last week with a visiting friend. It is amazing how bare the shelves have gotten. A couple of shops had even sold their display reloading tools. He was looking for the new Hornady self defense ammunition. We were told that Hornady had not shipped it yet.

I keep a want listed in a file on my computer desktop. When I get out I have that list in mind. I was not able to find one item. That night I ordered online. One of the items I wanted was out of stock; getting four out of five items is not bad.

Ireload2 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:53:31 AM »

Based on the events following Clinton's election I expected the same when Bush's popularity went way down.
I expected a Democratic president to be elected. I noticed that primers started disappearing of the shelves quicker than normal about 2 years ago so I began buying a few. By 6 months ago they were not to be found.
All the buying is anticipation of bad things from the political situation.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2009, 07:48:48 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on March 22, 2009, 04:10:19 AM

The manufacturers are basically working around the clock making bullets, primers, powder and ammo. It's being made right now at perhaps the highest rates ever in history. The problem is everyone is running scared and stocking up like never before. Not even the Y2K scare caused the level of stocking up that is going on right now.

Supplies are being bought as fast as it hits the shelves creating artificial shortages that really are hopefully temporary and are self induced as it is for the most part us shooters that are buying the stuff.

Do you know for a fact they're working around the clock from some inside information? It makes some sense; if not, they should be. On the other hand, it kind of reminds me of the "gas crisis" which I still don't believe was a crises but merely a ploy by the oil companies to get prices up. It's a little hard to believe that a little group (maybe we're not as little as I thought) like handloaders could soak up the entire supply of primers made by/for Remington, CCI, Winchester, Wolf and Federal.

MZ5 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2009, 12:18:28 PM »

Trouble is, if the companies really are still working 3 shifts, 6-7 days (and I read something recently that they've already started backing off to normal schedules, but I can NOT confirm this), and the lunatic hoarders are still buying them all within minutes, there's big, BIG trouble coming for the manufacturers. The scare will end (or the hoarders will run out of cash or storage space), supplies will come back to normal, and a large percentage of shooters and reloaders will have years and years worth of components and ammunition. So, the manufacturers will struggle 'cause they won't be able to sell anything. I'll love it because I'll finally be able to buy a thousand primers and won't have to pay a small fortune for them, but then I won't need any more for a year or three. It's really sad how stupidly short-sighted a crowd can be.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:19:19 PM »

Are we sure this problem has been created by horders? I realize that a lot of folks want to buy black rifles but 45 lc? I am not buying it. Something is going on that is more than horders.

MZ5 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2009, 01:49:44 PM »

That's why I said:

Quote

(and I read something recently that they've already started backing off to normal schedules, but I can NOT confirm this)

To me, this is in line with mgmt recognizing the temporary nature of the issue, and of course a business essentially always makes more money pricing their products near the top of the market rather than the bottom.

chucky52 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2009, 06:08:27 PM »

I can find no primers anywhere. A friend found and ordered 10,000, the internet seller was out before the end of the day. With hazmat and shipping, the 10,000 came to over $40/1000. This is clearly a panic buy. I found a box of Win white box 44 Mag and 45 ACP @ Walmart and since there was only one box of each left, I panicked and bought. This has happened before and those that bought at the top of the market saw their investment drop to half price. The sooner the better.

skarke · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:16:58 AM »

Quote

and the lunatic hoarders are still buying them all within minutes

Yes, I have "hoarded" supplies. I know that, at the stroke of a pen, $40 would be cheap for primers, and $105 for a keg of 231 would be joyful indeed. Furthermore, while having been rescinded, the pentagon sent shock waves through the once fired market last week by banning the sale of once fired military brass to the civilian consumer. Instantly, there were NO 223 once fired resellers with any stock. This is the best example of a one paragraph policy radically changing life as we know it.

The "common sense" gun controls are coming, friends, that'll include measures whose sole purpose is to make the shooting sports prohibitively difficult or expensive for all but the wealthy elite.

It is sad, but IMHO, we will see the end of shooting sports enjoyed by the common person in the next 20 years, maybe MUCH sooner.

So, check the websites, and buy buy buy!!!!!!!!

Siskiyou · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:02:03 AM »

I got a, “I told you so,” yesterday. About a year ago younger brother bought ten boxes of premium ammunition loaded with Bear Claw bullets that was a rather pricey purchase. I had asked him at the time if it was a wise purchase.

He told me yesterday that it is on sale at three times the price. I checked last night and it is now out of stock.

It maybe time to quit playing big brother.

I did not have a problem with buying ammunition, but I am a little more on the tightwad side. The premium Bear Claw bullet is not needed for our deer, a standard brand bullet has been doing the job for years. For the price of ten boxes of shells he could have bought close to thirty boxes of the standard ammunition.

I bought around 15 boxes of standard shells early last year. They were on sale and I looked at it as a good way of getting ammunition, and a lot of brass for reloading. I am not a bean counter but there have been times in my working career where I had to do budgets. I think I paid $7+ for .243, $7+ for .270 and $10+ for 7 Mag. I look at a commercial cartridge as a primer, case, bullet, powder, and labor. What would it cost me to load the same round? To me good brass is the jewel. If can get a number of loadings out of the brass I have profited from the deal. Sometimes it is hard to pass up a good deal.

Brother’s reloading volume triples mine so his brass will not go waste.

Some times, time has to pass before you learn just how good of deal something was. In this case it has taken less then a year, and one election.

Carl l. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 23, 2009, 05:35:26 AM »

I just got off the phone to CCI. I asked about the primers. They told me they were running 24/7 and on weekin also. They are 60 million behind on pistol primers and about the same on rifle primers. They can't keep up on ammo either. They think this will take several months to take care of it's self. I hope they told me the truth.

I do know it got pretty bad when Clinton got elected. Now we have Oboma and people are buying and stocking up. Carl L.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** March 23, 2009, 07:08:12 AM »

There is a war on . Last time i saw anything on how much they were using it was reported they were using 1 billion rounds a year . They were buying ammo from other than US manf. . As much as i like to shoot let the guys in the battle have first shot at it .

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:05:05 AM »

I believe that the troops should have all the abundance they need and more. We've been engaged on two fronts for 5 years and the amount being spent now is a far cry from the expenditures of three or so years ago. So I'm not ready to accept that as a legitimate reason any more.
I emailed CCI this morning and had a reply before noon (Thank You!) but the reply seemed pretty canned
"In recent years....large demand...working to meet demand....".
They may in fact be doing so. It just doesn't feel right.

BF

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #16 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:10:20 AM »

grand paw said you couldn't buy ammo in WW2 either .

beerbelly · « **Reply #17 on:** March 23, 2009, 08:19:51 AM »

I have noticed that my small local sporting store, gets in primers every week or so. But , I see none on the internet stores. They don't have every thing you want , the last trip I bought large pistol and large rifle primers. They were out of small pistol primers, except for magnum small pistol. They have a lot of those.
Don't know how they are getting them. I check regularly and get what I can. being retired buying huge batches like some folks can is out of th question.
beerbelly

Steve P · « **Reply #18 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:30:46 AM »

Yes there is hoarding going on. LOTS of it! If you were the manufacturer, and you put in extra shifts and weekends to keep up with the demand, how long would the demand last? If you produced to match the hoarding and suddenly everyone found out Obama was actually a good guy, who would buy anything? They would already have thousands of bullets and primers. Market would dry up and suddenly you, the manufacturer would be looking at lay-offs due to low sales volume.

Yes, the suppliers are working, but they ARE NOT working extra shifts and trying to keep up with demand. They are keeping standard back-order quantities and making sure they will have jobs in 6 months, a year, or even 5 years down the road.

I will not name names, but I know this as fact as I have family in the business.

Steve

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** March 23, 2009, 09:36:26 AM »

then if he is a bad guy they better make hay when the sun is still shinning

troy_mclure · « **Reply #20 on:** March 23, 2009, 12:56:15 PM »

arrrrggggghhhhhh! when i looked at natchez they had cci large rifle primers, by the time i signed up for an account they were gone!

ButlerFord45 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 23, 2009, 01:42:45 PM »

Quote from: Steve P on March 23, 2009, 09:30:46 AM

.......... If you were the manufacturer, and you put in extra shifts and weekends to keep up with the demand, how long would the demand last? If you produced to match the hoarding and suddenly everyone found out Obama was actually a good guy, who would buy anything? They would already have thousands of bullets and primers. Market would dry up and suddenly you, the manufacturer would be looking at lay-offs due to low sales volume.

Yes, the suppliers are working, but they ARE NOT working extra shifts and trying to keep up with demand. They are keeping standard back-order quantities and making sure they will have jobs in 6 months, a year, or even 5 years down the road.

I will not name names, but I know this as fact as I have family in the business.

Steve

This is an explination I can live with, if it is what's happening.
Thanks, I'm going to try and convince myself this is it; at least for the time being.

BF

GameHauler · « **Reply #22 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:17:44 PM »

Quote from: Steve P on March 23, 2009, 09:30:46 AM

Yes there is hoarding going on. LOTS of it! If you were the manufacturer, and you put in extra shifts and weekends to keep up with the demand, how long would the demand last? If you produced to match the hoarding and suddenly everyone found out Obama was actually a good guy, who would buy anything? They would already have thousands of bullets and primers. Market would dry up and suddenly you, the manufacturer would be looking at lay-offs due to low sales volume.

Yes, the suppliers are working, but they ARE NOT working extra shifts and trying to keep up with demand. They are keeping standard back-order quantities and making sure they will have jobs in 6 months, a year, or even 5 years down the road.

I will not name names, but I know this as fact as I have family in the business.

Steve

That is what I have been hoping to hear (kinda, sorta)
I was really feeling the OPIC thing in my mind
and not truly convinced they are not playing it for what its worth.
They are in business to make a profit but if they have not increased
their cost of manufacturing (OVERTIME ect) than why have our cost
increased the way they have?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 23, 2009, 02:28:29 PM »

Well maybe it is you can have a backorder and keep demand up so you can sell say 1,000,000 widgets for a demand price of $2 or 2,000,000 for a market where there is more supply than demand at $1. The AR platform rifles are the same way. Think about this, your AR series rifles are a military platform, one of the deals behind a milirary rifle is ease of design. How many M16's could we put out a month if the red Chinese were throwing human wave attacks at us in a WW3 scenairo. There are 20 some manufactuers of AR type rifles, do you really think they cannot keep up with demand on the manufacture of this rifle?

Explorer1 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:05:57 PM »

"There are 20 some manufactuers of AR type rifles, do you really think they cannot keep up with demand on the manufacture of this rifle?"

Not only YES on ARs, but yes on primers, powder, etc. Heck, even Lee is advertising custom bullet moulds are a year wait! Some companies have stepped up production, others have not. Its called the free market system (or at least what is left of it); tis the business's owners choice.

If you believe not, just go look at ATF stats on NCIS background checks and you will see 2 of the highest 10 sales volume days (system has been in place for 10 years) were in Nov and Dec 08 (at least at the last I looked in early '09). SALES OF EVERYTHING ARE UP! And everyone's sales numbers back that up.

The prices for primers on an auction site last night had Buy-it-Now at $475 for 5K. How much are you willing to play the market? That is way too much for me! Course I still have some from the Klinton days at $95 for 5K when I stocked up.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:20:56 AM »

maybe when y-2k came they incressed production and got left holding inventory when it was a non event .

Skunk · « **Reply #26 on:** March 24, 2009, 04:13:11 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 23, 2009, 02:28:29 PM

Think about this, your AR series rifles are a military platform, one of the deals behind a military rifle is ease of design. How many M16's could we put out a month if the red Chinese were throwing human wave attacks at us in a WW3 scenario. There are 20 some manufacturers of AR type rifles, do you really think they cannot keep up with demand on the manufacture of this rifle?

I think you make a strong point Billy, but if we were encountering the above scenario, we might also see a multitude of manufacturers in other industries as well as gun manufacturers that do not currently produce the M16 type platform being converted to produce just that rifle.

Quote from: Explorer1 on March 23, 2009, 06:05:57 PM

If you believe not, just go look at ATF stats on NCIS background checks and you will see 2 of the highest 10 sales volume days (system has been in place for 10 years) were in Nov and Dec 08 (at least at the last I looked in early '09). SALES OF EVERYTHING ARE UP! And everyone's sales numbers back that up.

That indeed seems like it would have something to do with the shortages. Sort of boils down to the panic buying.

levrluvr · « **Reply #27 on:** March 24, 2009, 05:19:45 AM »

I've had primers and powder on backorder for 3 weeks now; last checked delivery was still 3-4 weeks out.
With all of the new gun owners and reloaders, and given the enormous backorders, this is likely to continue for quite some time. There is enormous apprehension of the new administration, and they've just started their reign. There are people out there that are buying for a lifetime of need (or want) in the fear that the price will become so exorbitant to be unaffordable or the product will be outlawed. Most are stocking WAY past what we would have considered in the past to be a normal stock of loaded ammo or components.
I've actually seen a decrease in the number of people at my range- people seem to be holding on to what they're squirreling away rather than using it up in practice. Makes it easier on me to find a good spot

The only thing I have been buying in loaded ammo is .22lr and .22wmr and shotgun. I was well-stocked on center-fire components prior to all of this frenzy, but have every intention of going well past what I stocked in the past. I'd rather be prepared for the worst than be caught with my pants around my ankles.

MZ5 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2009, 08:13:31 AM »

This is precisely the kind of foolishness that drove gasoline to $4.50/gallon (again. Don't forget the 70s). And just like with gasoline (and all crude-derived products), it'll crash. This is why hoarders are a menace to EVERYONE, not just themselves. Some people are making a killing off the fear, though.

michaelt454 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 24, 2009, 09:34:16 AM »

Anyone who "can't" understand what is going on in the reloading world right now needs to pick up a copy of "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. It is supply and demand, when the demand changes, the price must change, to help keep stock available. Its just like price "gouging" during hurricanes and natural disasters, what a load of crap, anyone who has a very basic knowledge of economics knows that if water during a natural disaster stayed the same price, then it would likely all be bought by the first customer, who doesn't really need it. If the price of the water goes to 20.00 an ounce, then you are likely to only buy the amount that it actually takes to get your family through the crisis. Thus leaving some water on the shelf for your families needs also. Same with hotel rooms, when you double or triple the price in response to demand, it helps to insure that the precious resources are allocated efficiently, ie a family of six will all pile into one room instead of renting three seperate rooms for parents, male children, female children etc. These are the principles that our beloved capitalistic market rests upon it helps to look at things from a factual stand point instead of how something makes you "feel". Just because you "feel" like you're getting screwed, therefore you are, is BS. Just my opinion! Michael T.