Dahlgren boat howitzer limbers-old photos to look at!

[cannonmn]

I was looking for certain old photos today at the Naval Historical Center in Washington DC, and found these along the way.  What interested me was that I'd always heard that there was no limber used with the Dahlgren boat howitzers, however, here are two photos, showing two different boat howitzers, one with a limber and one with some other vehicle bearing two ammunition chests.  I'm not calling the second one a limber because there's no pole that I can see.  I know they are different howitzers because one has wooden wheels and one has metal wheels.  The first one is definitely a smoothbore, maybe the "light" model witih 450 lb. tube, but the size is hard to judge in this photo.

Has anyone seen any references to Dahlgren boat howitzers using limbers?

First photo and enlarged section:

 



Second photo and enlarged section:

[lance]

 Looked through some of my books for any reference about the limbers, haven't found anything, will let you know if i do.

[GGaskill]

Maybe they have removed wooden tongues so they don't take up as much space.  The two pieces appear to be too close together to turn very sharply.

[coehornboy]

Here is a pic of 1 of 4 in a cemetery in Oakland, CA...I have further pics of the carriage that I need to scan.

[cannonmn]

Thanks for pic of Boat Howitzer in Oakland, when does that photo date from, do you know?

[coehornboy]

This spring or last fall...I forget when.  They restored them about 2 years ago (the wheels were rotten off and the carriages were sitting in the grass).

[KABAR2]

Interesting photo's, in the second photo there does not appear to be a wheel on the trail of the carriage,

also does the trail look thicker than on other Dahlgren's? In the background of the same photo if you look closely

by the tree is a much earlier howitzer on small display stand. 

The second caisson with two limbers could this be an upgrade?

The first one was rather small as far a ammunition it could carry.

I have not studied Dahlgren's much this is the first time I have seen them with wood wheels.

[cannonmn]

Tx for the info on oakland.  Allen, the trail does look thicker (height dimension) than others, and i agree, no trail wheel.  ?

As for the piece in the background, I believe it is this piece, which is conspicuous by its huge, added-on lockpiece.  This Spanish howitzer, named "El Justicero" is one of the items I use to show people the damage that is occurring due to acid rain.  When I first inspected that piece in the 1980's, the name on the chase was easy to read.  Now it is impossible to read (the whole name anyway) and the only way to know is to look at the sign, which was made up when the name was still legible.

[navygunner]

Not sure if this helps but some boat howitzers were used by the army and perhaps they used a limber. There were some boat howitzers made by wiard very similar to dahlgrens.

Army use of boat howitzers

Aside from use in naval service, boat howitzers saw service with the land forces as well. The boat howitzers were occasionally used in artillery batteries, but were more often used in infantry units, in a role that would later be called infantry support guns.

At First Bull Run, two boat howitzers were manned by Company I of the 71st Regiment, NY National Guard. The unit had trained on boat howitzers while deployed at Washington D.C., and when called to Bull Run, brought two of them attached to I Company. The guns unfortunately had to be left behind during the unit's withdraw and were captured by Confederate forces.

During the Antietam campaign, the 9th NY Infantry (Hawkins' Zouaves), Company K (Whiting's Battery) employed 5 Dahlgren Boat Howitzers (two rifled and two smoothbores) They fired on Confederate skirmishers at Snavely's Ford and suppressed them . The Confederate Grimes' (Portsmouth) Battery had 2 smoothbore Dahlgren Boat Howitzers, with which they fought near Piper's Stone Barn . The boat howitzers appeared to be popular - when Grime's battery was forced to turn in one of its guns, it chose to turn in a 3-inch Ordnance Rifle rather than one of its Boat Howitzers .

The 1st Regiment, New York Marine Artillery also armed themselves with boat howitzers, using it for its designed use of amphibious expeditions. The unit participated in 16 raids along the North Carolina coast employing their boat howitzers. The New York Marine Artillery was issued twelve 12-pounder rifled boat howitzers made by Norman Wiard out of semi-steel, a low-carbon iron alloy. Other than the material used, the Wiard boat howitzers were identical to the Dahlgren 12-pounder rifled boat howitzers. The Wiard howitzers were not made in large numbers .

Boat howitzers were used in the western theaters also. The Indiana Brigade used a Dahlgren boat howitzer in fighting near Grand Prairie, Arkansas on July 5, 1862. .

While boat howitzers were never commonly used by either army, by the end of the war their use by land forces was ....