Author Topic: Cut shells for shotguns (Read 27996 times)

stubshaft · « **Reply #30 on:** September 22, 2009, 06:07:46 PM »

They are "death and destruction". Haven't used them in years, but when I did they were awesome game getters!

billy_56081 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 23, 2009, 01:22:25 AM »

I would think when they hit it would be like a big Gaser saftey slug. OUCH!

Veral · « **Reply #32 on:** September 27, 2009, 10:38:18 AM »

For those who don't understand how to make the cut properly.

To visulize it in your mind, picture slipping a coil spring over the shell, one made with 1/8 inch diameter wire and tightly wound. At a point within the compression part of the wad, slip a thin knife in and cut a bit more than halfway around. Turn the spring exactly half a turn and make a similar cut. You will have two crossing cuts where your opposing cuts meet, which leave a short length of eighth inch wide strip of plastic hull to hold the two pieces together.

I was pondering this thing a couple days ago, and the problem of using cut shells in pumps and autoloaders. A short stub of shell cocks sideways and binds, making it hard to get out of a pump, so one has to jack and play it out slowly. -- Would someone try cutting a few shells making the cut at the very top of the cushion of the wad, and just under the shot cup, and post results in a pump gun? The best shells for this would be one oz loads in 12 guage, which would put the cut farthest forward. My belief is that with the longer cartridge stub, perhaps they would jack out smoothly.

stubshaft · « **Reply #33 on:** September 27, 2009, 07:19:44 PM »

I've used it in a Mossberg 500ATP8S ( pump 12ga w/mag extension 20"bbl and rifle sights). I used to use the old transparent green (yes Martha shotshells came in different colors back in the day) Remington shotshells with the then new "power piston" wads. I used to cut the shell just at the top of the holes in the wad (anout 1/8" below the shotcup. Never had a jam shooting them!

Dee · « **Reply #34 on:** September 28, 2009, 01:27:21 AM »

As someone else already said, we called it a ringed shell. There is no way the chamber pressure CANNOT go up. WAY UP! Depending on the crimp not holding if it gets too high is like spinning the cylinder on a revolver with one round in one chamber.
I have seen it done, have done it once or twice, and would have to comment that knowing what I know in my old age, it would have to be a chamber stretcher, and very hard on the lock lug on the bolt.
Like on another recent thread where someones dad shot a 308 down the bore of a 270. Same principal, and a gamble for the same results.
The LIMITED positive results are now posted. I am now waiting for the NEGAITIVE results to come along.

Graybeard · « **Reply #35 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:59:49 AM »

Seen it effectively happen on the skeet range many times. Folks reload .410 shells to destruction most of the times. The heat works on the case and eventually when fired it turns loose just above the brass rather than the crimp opening and goes out kinda like a slug rather than a shot pattern.

No harm is ever done and the entire case above the split has ALWAYS cleared the barrel. I've NEVER yet seen the target break when this happens which is a pretty good indication the crimp never opened to release the shot as a cloud but rather than it remained tightly fixed kinda like a slug. I'm not sure I see all that much utility in doing it but see no real harm either.

Tommyt · « **Reply #36 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:00:14 AM »

This is a Great Idea that I will use to Hunt Hogs
Here in Florida many of the state owned land (WMA's)
you can hunt hog during small game but you cannot
Carry Slugs with you or high power rifles
Most are shotgun and 22
So Veral thank you so much for this Info

Tommyt

I truly don't know if I understand the cut
but if you email me a picture I'll post it

hillbill · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2009, 04:58:46 PM »

ive been watching this post for awhile and wanting to try the cut shell thing.i got out a nef single shot i had got a few months ago from a buddy that was hurtin for money.got sum reloads id loaded up a year or two ago, 7.5 shot,redott, black rem shells. cut them little less than halfway around but all the way thru the caseing.at 50yrds they struck bout 1.5 ft low but left a perfect 12 ga hole in the plywood i was useing for a target. the nef was a mod choke .didnt have time for more testing but im thinking they mite of been rite on at 25 yrds.the modified choke also cud of had sumpin to do with it.it does work tho. i did find tho if the shells were not cut enuf they wouldnt seperate and would shoot as regular shotgun shells.id not be a bit afraid to hunt deer at bow ranges with them.that is if i was pretty hungry for sum meat and was out of arrows.

maglvr44 · « **Reply #38 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:39:43 PM »

FINALLY!!! A deer load for my 28ga.!! Many thanks Veral

Paladin56 · « **Reply #39 on:** November 02, 2009, 07:59:14 AM »

When I was a kid, I always heard my dad talk about ringing shotgun shells, so I tried it in a Remington Model 11 semiautomatic. Worked like a champ. I started out shooting into water holes. That will get your attention with the column of water that goes way up in the air. No difference in recoil, noise or anything else, and the old Model 11 kicks the remains out like all the rest. May have something to do with the recoil operation of the action.

Later on while hunting quail in south Texas, I came onto a bunch of javalina. One stood long enough that rung a shell, loaded it up, and shot the beast between the eyes. Left about a 1-1/2" hole in the head and that was it. You should have seen the looks I got from my dad and his friends when I came back to the truck dragging a javalina and all I had was my shotgun. I was about 13 or 14 years old at the time, so most of the guys were really surprised.

Here is an attempt at photo insertion.

This shows the cut and the depth.

A different view of the cut and depth.

Make sure you leave about 1/16" between the cuts, which should be 180 degrees apart.

Loaded round in the Model 11 with Full Choke Barrel

This is the entrance on a chunk of fire wood.

The exit on the chunk.

The remains of the hull. This one didn't eject like paper hulls seem to.

As far as the overpressure goes, if you are concerned about it, don't do it. I've shot them out of almost every shotgun I own without a problem. Don't listen to those who have done it countless times without incident. It's best to play it safe if you think you will have a problem with overpressure and just say no.

David

stubshaft · « **Reply #40 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:25:27 PM »

Great photos David!

Paladin56 · « **Reply #41 on:** November 02, 2009, 01:34:24 PM »

Thanks Stubshaft.

Tommyt · « **Reply #42 on:** November 02, 2009, 04:38:53 PM »

Quote from: stubshaft on November 02, 2009, 01:25:27 PM

Great photos David!

Thank you
now I can't wait to try it

Tommyt

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #43 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:41:47 AM »

the plastic hull might work like a sabot , shot cup or wad with reguard to pressure . The shot would move around in reaction to moving down the bbl and being forced thru forcing cone and choke tube . The biggest danger it would seem is if a part of the load stayed in the bbl and blocked it in some way and another shot was fired before it was removed .

Dee · « **Reply #44 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:48:08 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on November 03, 2009, 03:41:47 AM

the plastic hull might work like a sabot , shot cup or wad with reguard to pressure . The shot would move around in reaction to moving down the bbl and being forced thru forcing cone and choke tube . The biggest danger it would seem is if a part of the load stayed in the bbl and blocked it in some way and another shot was fired before it was removed .

Where in this shotgun barrel is this forcing cone located?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** November 03, 2009, 04:04:08 AM »

at the end of the chamber where it transitions into the bbl. Many clay trget shooters , turkey shoot guns , heavy load guns and some new sporting guns have extended forcing cones . Parker bros. guns had long forcing cones and long ckokes long before it became fashonable . Seems they realized it helped reduce felt recoil and enhanced pattern . Seems making the transition from chamber to bbl less abrupt makes for a smoother transition and the felt recoil is smoother and feels like less of a kick . It is more apperant in older guns ( a winchester 1400 i have shows it to the naked eye ) the new guns with back bored bbls sometimes show it less .

hillbill · « **Reply #46 on:** November 03, 2009, 01:51:51 PM »

i did a little penatration test with the cut shells recently. mind yu now i was useing medium speed 1 1/8 oz dove loads with 7.5 shot.we had a deer carcass that my son kiilled in the mo youth hunt here. as the left shoulder was extremely broke up and bloodshot we basically didnt take a lot of meat off it. we put the carcass on the ground and shot into the shoulder at about 30 feet.the cut shell penetrated the shoulder but never made it into the chest cavity. this is with the skin off also.not really a killing shot unless the shock of 1 1/8 oz of lead wud knock the deer silly long enuf for a finishing shot.however by what penetration we did get id have to say that if shot into the ribs it probably would of penetrated to the lungs at least.im useing a old iver johnson champion single shot for what shooting ive done with the cut shells. it shoots accurate east and west but tends to shoot pretty low at about any range with the cut shells. with this gun id say id have to hold on the spine inside 25 yrds to get a mid body shot.anybody else noticed this?oh and yea sometimes us hillbillys got way too much time on our hands lol

Drilling Man · « **Reply #47 on:** November 03, 2009, 03:12:23 PM »

Well, when i was young, i remember my dad telling us NOT to ever aim for the shoulder, because he had one break up on the shoulder of a deer. I do believe my uncle said the same thing, but i don't remember enough about that conversation. $:-\$

Veral has a lot higher opinion of cut shells than i do...

DM

Duckhunter39480 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 17, 2010, 03:27:20 AM »

As a teenager (back in the 50's), I saw paper shotshells that had a ring cut around the mid-section of the shell for sale at a local salvage store. I asked my dad about this and he said that they were "rung" to make the shot act as if it were a bullet instead of shot. Dad was born in 1908 and had some experience with "surviving" during the depression. I tried this a few years later by cutting through the paper shell slightly below the shot (if you cut too far the shell would seperate). With paper shells you could more eaisly cut a grove in the hull without going all the way through the hull and produce a "ring" around the shell. Accuracy was at least as good as the slugs available back then and the impact was "expolsive" on small trees and the like. (Didn't have gallon milk jugs back them.) Trial and error will let you know exactly how much to cut. If you cut too much, the shell will come apart before you can chamber it. If you cut too little, the shell wil function normally and you will eject the complete spent hull. It is still a good parctice to "look down the barrel" just to make sure you don't have a partial obstruction but I have never had that happen. A country boy can survive.

R J Talley · « **Reply #49 on:** April 17, 2010, 06:11:00 AM »

As to the killing power of shot on deer, I'd like to offer this example. back in 83 I was hunting birds just outside of Lewistown MT on a friend's ranch. I was using a 12 gauge with 11/4 oz loads of #5 shot. A buck flushed about 20 yards ahead of me and I instinctively shot him. First shot went into his rump and penetrated maybe 2 inches at best. The second shot was a raking shot going into his ribs and right shoulder as he was quartering away, the distance was maybe 30 yards max at this point. The deer bounded off into some brush down in a coolie about 80 yards out. I found him laying dead just inside the brush. When I dressed him, it was clear that the second shot penetrated both shoulders, tore up the lungs and came to rest under the hide on the far side. All of the shoulder bones were penetrated clean through. So, what the heck happened to the first shot? I sure don't know because there was no, zero, zip shot in that rump. Just a superficial surface wound that would not have been fatal. It was a divot, no more no less. What I got from this one experience was that bird shot can be lethal but it's not reliable. Now the cut-wad deal just might up the reliability end. i don't know but in a pinch, I'd be more than willing to use it.

Hodr · « **Reply #50 on:** April 17, 2010, 09:38:00 AM »

When our neighbor got out of the army, about 1954?, He bought a 12 ga shotgun for pheasant..Not having a lot of money, he took it deer hunting with us up in the Trinitys, he cut rings in the shells and dropped a big barren muley doe with one shell and finished it with another before it could get up. I was 10 and made it about 80 big steps for me at the time.

blindhari

Veral · « **Reply #51 on:** April 20, 2010, 05:25:58 PM »

I'm glad to see all the interest in this trick. I'm afraid many of us will be needing it on occasion in time to come.

I just read down through all the new posts and will add a few more comments.

Don't use reloads if you have factory shells, as new shells have a stronger crimp.

I believe that perhaps when cutting the new plastic wad shells if one were to cut up real close to the shot the stub that's left would perhaps eject better from pumps and autoloaders. I've always cut to leave the hull over as much of the wad as possible, which leaves a short stub. The photos of how to do it are real nice, and thank you!

Choose the heaviest shot you have rather than fine shot, if you have a choice. But even 7 1/2 or 8 is deadly if one of these is laid on the ribs. They just won't penetrate far if there's a lot of meat in the way. They will break a deers neck instantly without having to hit the spine.

One poster told of using #5 shot, without cutting on a deer. I knew two men who killed killed deer with fine shot, one with 7 1/2 and one with 6 shot, not cut shells, both of them within 20 yards or so. But I definately recommend against trying it unless one is starving. A head shot from about any angle will drop a deer in it's tracks with most any shot size if you know the approximate spread of your load and are close enough to put most of the pattern on the head.

No 2 shot is as deadly, and maybe more so than buckshot at ranges out to 40 yards with a full choke. I've shot at several deer and ferel dogs with buck and never saw any indication of a hit, but dropped them instantly with #2, uncut shells. This with hits that cover the side of the animal from as far back as about 45 degrees behind and straight in the face from the front. I killed a 100 pound lion with 71/2 shot from a full choke but thought I had loaded #2 or wouldn't have taken the shot. I was close enough that it bored an inch hole in the skin, and into the neck. When I skinned that was the only evidence of the hit. Nothing came through. The cat went from a full run to sound sleep in milliseconds.

docmagnum357 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 05, 2010, 06:05:28 PM »

I tried this extensively when i was in High school, and didnn't" know betterr" and couldn't afford dollar apiece Breneke slugs. First thing you have to understand is that pressure is CHAMBER PRESSURE. if pressure stayed the same allthe way down the barrel, it WOULD burst the barrel. period. Second, unless you have a verty qweak grip, you can easily mash a shotshell out of shape with a thumb and fore finger. Third, the end away from the crimp is open, so IF THE projectile was squeezed, swaged, mashed, whatever, it would only get longer. If you look at the the pressure curve inside a Rifle barrel the pressue is nearly nothing at the muzzle, much less a shotgun barrel. Normal, ordinary shot shells can almost be "silenced" by using a 40" " Barrel extention" . This again proves the pressure is very, very low at the muzzle of a shotgun. The real danger, as Veral said, would be shooting a second cut shell through a bore that had a partial hull stuck in it.

I remember one of Capstick's stories, something about being bird hunting with a 20 gauge, and having the backbone to wait out a charge, knowing at twenty to thirty feet a charge of #8 would at worst blind a lioness, while a ten feet or less, it would decapitate her. Being as Capstick lived to write the story, the part about the devestation at least is true.

same thing with a shotgun "bang stick" for sharks, gators, etc. No barrel to speak of, but very, very effective on sharks and saurians.Long and the short of it is this stuff works , and works darn well. The very fact that isd "squeezes the in the bore probably makes it as accurate as it is.

Dee · « **Reply #53 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:41:40 AM »

Well I am learning some things here I Never thought of, and actually make sense.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #54 on:** May 06, 2010, 03:44:53 AM »

Quote

I remember one of Capstick's stories, something about being bird hunting with a 20 gauge, and having the backbone to wait out a charge, knowing at twenty to thirty feet a charge of #8 would at worst blind a lioness, while a ten feet or less, it would decapitate her. Being as Capstick lived to write the story, the part about the devestation at least is true.

Just don't believe everything Capstick wrote, as it's pretty well known that he had a HUGE imagination, and "it" sold books!

DM

LabRat2k3 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 19, 2010, 05:00:18 AM »

I must be missing something here. If the pressure got too high wouldn't the crimp just open up and let the shot pass through leaving the hull wherever it was stuck at? It just seems to me that the plastic end would let go long before the barrel steel did.

jhalcott · « **Reply #56 on:** May 19, 2010, 10:26:20 AM »

I heard about these when I was a 7 year old kid. grand dad had a friend that poached deer for a living. Gramps told me they were illegal but you HAD to be caught with one to be charged. He also said it was EASY to just break the shell in half with your fingers if the Wardens were around.

tigger · « **Reply #57 on:** May 23, 2010, 08:39:46 AM »

Tried it last weekend with some Walmart Winchester promo dove loads. First tried the uncut shells on an 8-1/2x11 sheet of paper @ 15 yards. Got the usual spread. Then the cut shell--- a 12 gauge hole. I was using a Rem 870 riot gun with I/C choke, and the ringed shell shot to the iron sights. The stub that remained did not want to eject properly, and fell back into the action. I'll probably try it again, the next time operating the action more forcefully. Neat trick to have in one's bag in a pinch.

williamlayton · « **Reply #58 on:** April 25, 2011, 08:32:02 AM »

I am going to bump this up and hope someone will make it a sticky.
Blessings

Veral · « **Reply #59 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:31:30 PM »

We are really getting close to a time when knowing things like this will probably be very important to our survival. If not for food, then survival as a nation. Learn how to do it and which guns handle them well. Beans with whether it is legal for game in your area. The real importance is that one can cut a bird load into a big game stopper and eat rather than go hungry, in a pinch, or use a shotgun to kill with bird shot at far longer ranges. If it's legal in your state, it is a good hunting load option, especially if shot size is 5 or larger up to #2. Anything will work though so use what you have in your pocket when you need a rifle but have only a shotgun.