ejecting spent case/454 Casull

[benny123]

I have to depress the ejector rod several times--with varying levels of success--before ejecting the cases out of the cylinder.

With the 45LC rounds it's one quick fluid motion--like what one would expect. But not with the 454 loads.

As the cases went in without any tension, I am presuming that the 454 cases bulge upon detonation reducing the tolerance between the cylinder cavity. It probably takes me 6-7 strokes before each shell jars loose. The rod itself is straight so I don't suspect any internal damage. I try not to leave lubricant in the cylinder after cleaning but perhaps I should to allow some play. Suggestions?

[22popnsplat]

First off , I think Freedom arms recommends against the use of 45 colt ammo in a 454 casull . The tolerances in The freedomarms are very tight and if you fire 454 ammo after the 45 colt without cleaning extremely well you can expect problems like this . Also I have found that a clean dry chamber extract better .
Next question if the above is not the case would be , What is the 454 ammo thats getting stuck ?

[benny123]

In a previous message I mentioned that I never shoot 454 Casull loads following 45LC . Also, I dissassemble and clean after every firing

[Axehandle]

Shooting factory ammo?   If you are shooting reloads what bullet and how much powder are you loading?.... You using a good heavy crimp with powders like H110, 296 and AA #9?  Don't be afraid to use a bronze bore brush and bore cleaner in your chambers.... Patch them dry then look through them and make sure that there is no remaining residue...

[benny123]

Sorry, I should have added more detail. Factory ammunition: Magtech 260gr

[Grumulkin]

I would suspect that what happens with shooting 45 Colt ammo in a 454 Casull chamber is that with time there will be erosion of the cylinder ahead of where the 45 Colt case ends.  If that happens, no amount of cleaning will correct the problem.  If the cylinder walls aren't perfectly smooth, ejecting a cartridge fired at high pressure like the 454 Casull, will probably be difficult.

[benny123]

I would suspect that what happens with shooting 45 Colt ammo in a 454 Casull chamber is that with time there will be erosion of the cylinder ahead of where the 45 Colt case ends.  If that happens, no amount of cleaning will correct the problem.  If the cylinder walls aren't perfectly smooth, ejecting a cartridge fired at high pressure like the 454 Casull, will probably be difficult.

i think you're right on the money. But, I am unable to measure. I may try to have a gunsmith look at it in the next few days. I bought the FA from a local gun show about a month back. Though it didn't look stressed or abused I really didn't know what to look for at the time.

I have now disassembled and cleaned. I dropped (live & spent) 454 catridges in the cylinder. The live ammo had just a small amount of tension (maybe ~ 1-2mm) as rim seated in cylinder. Seemed normal, ejected normally

Pushing the 454 spent casings in added resistance. This increased as I depressed. I didnt even set the case flush against the cylinder because I felt like i wouldn't be able to get it without forcing it. Reminded of how it felt when I was at the range.

I wish I had a micrometer and could measure and compare diameter of these casings

[Graybeard]

Ah ha more info than you gave me via PM. Shooting .45 Colt in the .454 cylinder as I mentioned is a major NO-NO. That's likely the cause of this problem. STOP IT NOW. 

Clean the chamers really well using a broze bore brush larger than bore diameter chucked in a drill while using a good solvent like Hoppe's #9 to help clear the crud. Afterward if you've not already damaged the cylinder with the shorter ammo it should get better. If so stop using the Colt ammo in it.

[Hank08]

Factory or not the ammo your shooting is too hot for your gun, break it down and remove about 10% of the powder and they won't stick.  For 20 yrs. 99% of my shooting in my M83 .454 has been in .45C cases, light and hot loads.  Never seen any erosion, FA factory .454 loads still shoot and eject same as they did when new.  In fact everyone I know who has a FA .454 loads most of their loads in .45C cases, even the .454 level ones.  Just passing on my experience, yours may be different but I doubt it.
H08

[22popnsplat]

Factory or not the ammo your shooting is too hot for your gun, break it down and remove about 10% of the powder and they won't stick.  For 20 yrs. 99% of my shooting in my M83 .454 has been in .45C cases, light and hot loads.  Never seen any erosion, FA factory .454 loads still shoot and eject same as they did when new.  In fact everyone I know who has a FA .454 loads most of their loads in .45C cases, even the .454 level ones.  Just passing on my experience, yours may be different but I doubt it.
H08

I would use extreme caution attempting 454 loads in a 45 colt case , The capacity is different and powder charges would need to be reduced otherwise pressure may be excessive .

[Ken ONeill]

The Magtech factory ammo may indeed be too hot. It isn't the first time I've heard that about Magtech, but that's just secondhand info and allegations.
I certainly have no objection to Hank08 shooting whatever he wants to in his guns, and I don't mean this as a personal criticism of him, but I think it is bad advice to recommend using .45 Colt brass in a FA .454. Chambering problems and higher pressures due to lead and crud build-up are well known phenomena resuting from the use of that brass in FA's, whether a particular person has experienced it in one gun or not. I've done it as a test, I won't do it any more, and I won't recommend doing it.
You've received plenty of good advice to clean your chambers well, then change ammo. If I was you, I'd take that advice, and see what happens.

[benny123]

I did follow the recommendation. Yesterday I bought a 50 cal (rifle) brush and Hoppe's solvent and brushed the cylinder and bore thoroughly. Using a oversize bristle brush clearly cleaned it more effectively--there was a real nice hone. Did mangle the brush rendering it pretty much useless after so many passes

 What was strange for me is that things didn't look dirty in the past after i cleaned them the the half-a-dozen time I shot it.

Yesterday, I noticed under a halogen light there was a small line that runs across the inside diameter of the  cylinders. it does appears to be exactly where the mouth of the 45 Colt cartridge is.

What i didn't appreciate is how such a small amount of residue left on the inside of the cylinder could cause such a potentially disastrous result. Without looking at the barrel under such a bright light I wouldn't be able to see any the striations mentioned. What I will do is try to get my hand on some other 454 ammo to see if I have a problem ejecting. (I need to rule out any issues with Magtech)

Is there any harm using a larger diameter brush (like the 50cal) that I was using to clean the bore and cylinder? Also, I was considering using an abrasive like BarKeeper's inside the cylinder but was unsure if i would be harming, or wearing out, the finish.

So long as I haven't ruined the cylinder I may consider reloading that way I can learn how to handle the power of this gun through increasing loads without injuring it or myself. Problem is in needs to be out of sight for girlfriend sake and I also need to understand if loading for the 454 presents any unique issues.  i'll probably post an inquiry on the handloading site to address this.

Thank you again for the guidance. 

[yooper77]

Yesterday, I noticed under a halogen light there was a small line that runs across the inside diameter of the  cylinders. it does appears to be exactly where the mouth of the 45 Colt cartridge is.

When the 45 Colt is fired in the 454 Casull chamber over time it can and will cut a groove into the cylinder wall.  The problem is when you fire the longer 454 Casull the brass will flow into this groove and become hard to extract.

I don’t believe this is a crud problem but a ruined cylinder now dedicated to 45 Colts only.  Having another cylinder made for the 454 Casull cartridge I feel is the only fix.

yooper77

[benny123]

likely the owner prior to me must have shot Colt rounds. Otherwise it doesnt add up. In total I have shot through less than two boxes of 45lc --appx 70 rounds. I pulled the cylinder out again and followed the contour with a needle. This is clearly a groove. Though it feels like a very small indentation , it is deep enough to where my brushing will have no effect

i'm in a predicament, i wasn't planning on spending $300 for a cylinder. Not a good day.

[Ken ONeill]

Don't jump to conclusions yet, despite the line in the chambers. Try a box of a different type of .454 ammo, and see what happens, now that the chambers have been thoroughly cleaned.
No special problems in loading .454 ammo, except bullets larger than .452 should not be used, bullets should be heavily roll crimped as a SEPARATE step after bullet seating, to prevent them from jumping crimp, and soft bullets (those suitable only for velocities under 1400-1500 fps) should not be used to avoid washing out the forcing cone.

[benny123]

Don't jump to conclusions yet, despite the line in the chambers. Try a box of a different type of .454 ammo, and see what happens, now that the chambers have been thoroughly cleaned.
No special problems in loading .454 ammo, except bullets larger than .452 should not be used, bullets should be heavily roll crimped as a SEPARATE step after bullet seating, to prevent them from jumping crimp, and soft bullets (those suitable only for velocities under 1400-1500 fps) should not be used to avoid washing out the forcing cone.

Glad to report that after shooting 30 rounds last night that all were ejected easily (no jamming the rod back and forth to remove the cases)

One thing Graybeard mentioned, that I hadn't done initially, was to attach the oversize bore brush to an actual drill. This clearly helped. The 'ring' is still there and it is clearly a cut inside the cylinder, but, it's depth has been reduced slightly--~1mm. Obviously enough to not cause a morphing of the shells as before anyway.

I also bought leather shooting gloves which provide enough protection on thumb to avoid cuts. Normally, after shooting even 10 rounds I'd get cut. The issue wasn't the blood or the cut, it was the recoil of the subsequent shots battering away at the same area. This was what was leading me to transition to the easier-to-shoot-well Colt rounds.

I am done with shooting 45 Colt in this cylinder. I was not aware this "cutting" could occur just thought it was an issue of excess 45LC residue causing dangerous pressure issues if not cleaned. Hopefully other newbies will learn from my mistakes.