Author Topic: How to blow up a cannon  (Read 9579 times)

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Offline armorer77

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How to blow up a cannon
« on: September 05, 2009, 03:24:42 PM »
Hi guys , for the last few months I have been reading about mistakes , mishaps , and out right stupidity . This also seems to be a good time to test the wall = chamber rule . So I have decided to test one of my barrels to destruction . I am using my Parrot carbine . Chosen as the easiest to replace ,and the thinnest wall that I make,  and I have a spare due to a cancelled order . I bought a lb. of 4F BP today . This tube is intended to be shot with 300grs. of 1F BP and a 1lb lead ball , my  prototype has 15 full loads thru it with no signs of distress . I will post tomorrow afternoon with photos of the test . Wish me luck . I also have a large stack of cement blocks to sit behind and observe . Armorer77

Offline Spuddy

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2009, 03:32:27 PM »
This should be interesting. ;D

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2009, 03:36:32 PM »
A thought.

If you start with a stiff charge and continue to increase it until failure, you will have found a known point of failure.  Then on the next opportunity, step down a level and repeat until failure.  THEN you have found a known load that will withstand X firings.  Back down several to many levels and you can fire more many more than X.
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Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2009, 03:45:19 PM »
This purely a test to destruction or til' I run out of powder  . I know my barrels will stand up to normal loads for longer than I will live . I normally shot 475  grs and 1lb. lead ball in my 12" Parrot and it is a hoot . Getting good hits at 100 yds. Gonna move the targets back after the test is over . Armorer77

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2009, 03:46:39 PM »
Have FUN and be SAFE!

Looking forward to the pix!
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline KABAR2

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2009, 04:01:10 PM »
Armorer77,

Are you going to measure the diameter of the O.D. after each shot until destruction?

It would be interesting to see how much the metal has stretched before failure.
Mr president I do not cling to either my gun or my Bible.... my gun is holstered on my side so I may carry my Bible and quote from it!

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Offline RocklockI

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2009, 04:08:58 PM »
so the wall is at least as thick as the bore ?

sounds like a fun project . good luck .

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2009, 04:27:30 PM »
Bore is 1" wall is 1.125 . I will mic the OD after each shot . Armorer77

Offline GGaskill

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2009, 07:29:07 PM »
Are we placing bets?   ;D  I think he will run out of powder unless he uses double or triple shot.
GG
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Offline Victor3

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2009, 07:48:40 PM »
 I was just going to suggest we start a pool  ;)

 I'll go with 1/2# of powder and 2 lead balls.

 
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 12:10:41 AM »
The key to KABOOM is not the amount of powder, but the quality of the obstruction.  I.e.: it doesn't take much powder if the resistance of the obstruction is close to the strength of the material in the rest of the barrel.
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Offline dan610324

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 02:35:38 AM »
dont be so sure of that
when I was building a pair flintlock duelling pistols a long time ago I used 2 breachplugs in a barrel
one in each end, just to test the strength of the breach plug construction
I fired it with 8 gram ffg with a fuse
it just sound like a jet engine for a while while the built up pressure came out through the vent hole
no visible damages at all , but I didnt mic it before and after
Dan Pettersson
a swedish cannon maniac
interested in early bronze guns

better safe than sorry

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 05:05:47 AM »
I think Ed has stated elswhere that he's using 1018 steel, and this is a relatively short barrel, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this barrel to burst from a BP load.
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Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 06:37:35 AM »
Mud is one of the materials recommended by the Army to destroy captured enemy artillery.
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline dynomike

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 07:06:24 AM »
Does anyone know of a chart that converts from oz. to grains or vica versa? I am going to shoot mine today w/ 2oz. cannon grade powder and 2lb lead ball w/ a sabot w/ 0.007 clearnce. I was wondering cause some people say grains and some say oz's.

Offline seacoastartillery

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 07:48:55 AM »
     Dynomike,   for avoir, or more correctly, avoirdupois weight, which is used for weighing powder, just remember that there are 7,000 grains per pound, so divide by 16 oz. and you get 437.5 grains in each ounce (oz.). That's it.

     Sometimes the Troy Weight system used to weigh precious metals and gems is confused with the Avoirdupois system weights.  This is incorrect.  They are COMPLETELY separate and different.

                          Troy Weight

                 Unit                        Grains    Grams
Troy pound (12 troy ounces)         5,760    373.241 721 6
Troy ounce (20 pennyweights)    480    31.103 476 8


     Also, we would like to relate to armorer 77 our method for conducting similar tests.  We dig a 24" deep hole in the ground to contain all debris, should the tube being tested fail and put a looooong fuse on it and retire to a special 7,600 pound steel barricade built for us by General Motors Corp., the OLD GMC, a Suburban which is parked 50 yards away and BELOW the crown of the testing hill.  We never had a tube fail yet, but testing to destruction was never on the menu.  A standard three times service load of powder and two times shot weight is always used during these prototype tests.  This was one of the testing methodologies used during the War for Southern Independence.  Stay safe, Armorer 77, stay safe.

Regards,

Mike and Tracy
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 08:00:12 AM »
But a grain is a grain is a grain:  One of the earliest units of common measure and the smallest, it is a uniform unit in the avoirdupois, apothecaries’, and troy systems.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2009, 09:06:28 AM »
Testing is finished for today . I reached 1000grs. with 4 1lb. lead balls before destroying my testing base . Pulled the heads off 2  3/8" carriage bolts putting an end to todays shooting . For the curious , measuring just ahead of the chamber reinforcement band . No noticible change . Total varience was +.0006 " Photos and movies to follow This evening . Armorer77

Offline subdjoe

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2009, 09:11:03 AM »
um...is that two each 3/8 inch carriage bolts or 2 3/8" carriage bolts?   ;D
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2009, 10:06:12 AM »
Here is a handy piece of shareware, that I think Cat Whisperer posted several years ago.

http://joshmadison.com/software/convert-for-windows/

Convert for Windows
Convert is a free and easy to use unit conversion program that will convert the most popular units of distance, temperature, volume, time, speed, mass, power, density, pressure, energy and many others, including the ability to create custom conversions!


I have the short cut on my desk top.  Of all the widgets I use it gets used just a shade more than George's round ball calculator and XE.com currency converter.

 

Offline jeeper1

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2009, 02:17:56 PM »
I've been using the same converter as mentioned by DD. I have an icon on my desktop for it as it gets used often.
I may not be completely sane, but at least I don't think I have the power to influence the weather.

Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2009, 04:27:53 PM »
Here are the pics from todays shoot .

The victim



The Perp



3rd shot : 500 grs. 4F w/ 2 1lb. balls




4th shot 700 grs 4F w/ 2 1 lb balls




The final shot of the day 1000 grs. 4F w/ 4 1 lb. balls



The results



Offline Double D

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2009, 04:39:50 PM »
I just dug out my Muellers and he is what he says about proof-synopsized.

English method.

a charge of powder which weight as much as the shot in all pieces.

Brass 24 pounder 20 pounds, Iron 24 pounder is 18 pounds.

France used 2/3 of the shot weight.

Mueller says the better way to proof it is load it with a standard load and fire it 2-300 times a quickly as possible and see if it survives.

Mueller also reports on a another French method. Instead of shot, ram in as hard as possible 2 feet of clay.  Mueller says he doubts an irion cannon could stand  such a proof.

So using the English method, and George's round ball calculator, you have a .19 pounder, so load a .19 pound iron ball over .19 lbs of powder for a proof load.


Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2009, 04:44:45 PM »
Here is a standard shot 300 grs 1F

 
Somebody let me know if this link works please . Armorer

Offline intoodeep

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2009, 04:59:25 PM »
No worky... So, I teaked it for ya!  :)

If you make it idiot proof, then, someone will make a better idiot.


Offline armorer77

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2009, 06:16:37 PM »
Thank you . That was a standard load . 300 grs. 1F w/1 lb. lead ball . Armorer

Offline Double D

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2009, 06:24:07 PM »
Use the embeded code line not the url.

Offline GGaskill

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2009, 06:59:03 PM »
For another historical note, when the Ordnance Dept was testing the Griffen gun (the predecessor of the Ordnance rifle), after firing something like 500 shots and encountering no wear, they decided to blow up the gun (in the interests of science, I'm sure.)  It took 7 charges and 13 shot (they filled the bore) to burst it.  I don't think you will be able to burst yours.
GG
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Offline RocklockI

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2009, 07:53:10 PM »
but after being torched to within an inch of it's life , and in the interest of science .

and spirit of the mythbusters .....if your going to test it "to destruction" , well destruction should be goal ....  'by whatever means nessesary' .....which means ..........a charge of bp and something else if you could think of something else to add ..... ???

clay sounded like a good idea to plug the barrel . insert a 'mesurering stick' to leave a looseage powder chamber , even with severe overload .

if possible use an electrical igniter ........? with wires that go thru the clay and into the loosage powder chamber ,containing a severe overload  :o.

with a 'booster' within a booster to spank that parrot into orbit .

maybe put a plug in the muzzle sealed with jb weld .

i have no idea how any of this could happen and do not recomend this to anyone ...whoso ever !


i've never thought about trying to blow one up ......? silly me   :).   so any info ,all info , and /or any precieved info that anyone thought was info ....was wrong . i recomend agianst it  .

even thinking about it might be a crime .......in some states ......maybe more .

black powder muzzle loading cannons .

"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

Offline Victor3

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Re: How to blow up a cannon
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2009, 09:11:17 PM »
 Armorer77,

 Thanks much for conducting the test. I hava a few questions...

 You say up above that the cannon has a 1" chamber. I'm wondering how much powder it holds. I assume that on your heavier loads, some of it must have been overflowing into the larger diameter bore?

 On your final shot, about how far did the 4 balls go?

 In measuring the OD for change, were you using the vernier calipers shown below ???

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes