Author Topic: List of past cannon accidents  (Read 2744 times)

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Offline cannonmn

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 07:11:48 AM »
Thanks for posting this one.  It brings to mind the fine line between accident and plain stupidity.  I always considered an "accident" as a happening that was not easily preventable.  These chronicled events are almost 99.9% stupidity.

I wish they would report more accurately and stop calling pipe bombs, "cannons".  I have cannons...full size cannons; I resent being lumped together with rubber-heads. Their misadventures have people looking askance at the rest of us.

Small point but I also wish they would stop calling, FRAGMENTS, "shrapnel".  In 1784, Lt. Henry Shrapnel of the British Army, developed, "shrapnel". Whereas, "fragments" are created by the likes of today's Vinny Boombotz.

We are guided by simply performed safety proceedures. If followed, there are rarely accidents.

I was opening an event about 25 years ago and was discharging my piece from within a roped-off safety area. My BIG MISTAKE, was in using a fuse and not instant ignition.

A rubber-headed woman in her sixties, armed with a disposable camera (more disposable than she ever imagined), went under the rope....rushed to the muzzle...after I had just lite the fuse. She hunkered down an arms length in front of the muzzle with her camera eye looking down the bore.

One of my helpers yanked her away.

Boy was she angry.

She, "only wanted to take a picture of the cannon's flash".

We have rules that are difficult and inconvenient at times but they are designed to prevent accidents.

Sure, it's nice to show-off our "stuff". We're rightly proud of our iron but the liability is there with the public.

Darn!  Now I'm all fired-up and I won't be able to take my nap.

rc
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Offline subdjoe

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 09:21:55 AM »
Thanks for posting this one.  It brings to mind the fine line between accident and plain stupidity.  I always considered an "accident" as a happening that was not easily preventable.  These chronicled events are almost 99.9% stupidity.

I wish they would report more accurately and stop calling pipe bombs, "cannons".  I have cannons...full size cannons; I resent being lumped together with rubber-heads. Their misadventures have people looking askance at the rest of us.

Small point but I also wish they would stop calling, FRAGMENTS, "shrapnel".  In 1784, Lt. Henry Shrapnel of the British Army, developed, "shrapnel". Whereas, "fragments" are created by the likes of today's Vinny Boombotz.

Now, there is your problem. You expect the media to kind of know what it is talking about and to go for accuracy rather than sensationalism.  Silly person.


We are guided by simply performed safety proceedures. If followed, there are rarely accidents.

I was opening an event about 25 years ago and was discharging my piece from within a roped-off safety area. My BIG MISTAKE, was in using a fuse and not instant ignition.

A rubber-headed woman in her sixties, armed with a disposable camera (more disposable than she ever imagined), went under the rope....rushed to the muzzle...after I had just lite the fuse. She hunkered down an arms length in front of the muzzle with her camera eye looking down the bore.

One of my helpers yanked her away.

Boy was she angry.

She, "only wanted to take a picture of the cannon's flash".

We have rules that are difficult and inconvenient at times but they are designed to prevent accidents.

Sure, it's nice to show-off our "stuff". We're rightly proud of our iron but the liability is there with the public.

Darn!  Now I'm all fired-up and I won't be able to take my nap.

rc
Truly a shame that you could not have usder her as a perfectly wonderful "horrible example." And why there is a safety zone.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 09:33:40 AM »
"1983 Premature Ignition. Gun goes off unexpectedly as spectator trips over lanyard during waterfront celebration.
Crewmember requires 4 hours of surgery
."

Um.....how did a spectator get close enough to trip over the lanyard?  There is something more to this story, I think.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 09:41:08 AM »
Posted to be linked into our post on cannon accidents which is under safe loads, cannon plans and safety.

Source: http://www.artilleryreserve.org/accident.pdf

Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003
Vol. 18, No. 1 Winter 1996 Pg.2

We reported in the last issue about two fatal “cannon” accidents. Readers Chip Rogers and Brig. Gen. Charles Corfman
of the National Military Department, Sons of Veterans Reserve, sent reports that two men were sentenced to two years of
community supervision, the equivalent of two years’ probation, in the Medina, Ohio, case.
The men were coworkers of Richard M. Houdek who owned the homemade device in which the three were trying to
shoot hot dog buns.
It blew apart and Houdek was hit in the head by a metal cap welded to the end of one of the barrels. The men pleaded
no contest to possession of a dangerous weapon on school property – they were roofers working on the roof of a career
center and fired the device in the parking lot.
The newspaper headline and story referred to “cannon.” Corfman says the police lieutenant said told him that was
wrong – the device should have been called a “Fourth of July noisemaker.”

Vol. 18, No. 3 Summer 1997 Pg. 2
As longtime readers know, we have several times published National Safety Rules for artillery firing and we offer free
additional copies. Some of you have ordered copies to give out or have sent names of people you think should become
familiar with safe shooting rules.
Our offer still stands. If you see unsafe practices, try to correct them and we’d be happy to send the rules to the parties
involved.
What brings this to mind is a recent Associated Press story headlined “ Teen Injured in Cannon Blast Gets Robotic
Arm.”
According to the newspaper account Billy Gibbs, 17, was ramming and sponging a 12 pdr. Napoleon during the March
reenactment of Cuba Station in Demopolis, Ala.
Gibbs had rammed a pound of black powder down the barrel. “ I was in charge of getting the sparks out,” he told the
reporter. “I rammed the charge down, felt a loud flash and the ramrod took most of my hand off. I laid on the ground and
[at first] I couldn’t feel my hand. The I could feel pain like you’re not supposed to feel.”
According to the orthopedic hand surgeon, the hand lost a thumb, the tops of the other fingers were badly damaged and
the two major nerves of the hand were “totally blasted apart.” The doctor said, “It was worst than anything I’ve seen, even
in the Gulf War.” The hand was amputated and Gibbs has been fitted with a myoelectric artificial hand.

Vol. 19, No. 1 Winter 1997 Pg. 2-4, 7 – recapitulation

1540 Premature Ignition. Francisco Vazquez de Coronado’s expedition pushes from Mexico as far east as Kansas. En
route a No. 1 man loses his arm as a result of a premature ignition of a cannon.

1811 Premature Ignition. Portugal. No.1 man blown from the muzzle and into the harbor along with rammer. No. 3
stopping vent gets severely burned hand.

Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

1840 Premature Ignition. U.S. sailor killed while priming the vent directly from a priming horn.

1841 Premature Ignition. U.S. War Department directs Ordnance Board to find a way to stop premature ignitions
which are killing so many men during artillery drills. “The accidental explosions of cannon by which many lives and
limbs are lost annually, are generally caused by fragments of the burning cartridge from a previous discharge remaining
in the gun and which are not extinguished before the next charge is inserted.”
Capt. Benjamin Huger (later General), Secretary of the Ordnance Board, recommends: “Care should be taken not to use a
very wet sponge. If it is slightly dampened it may do no harm, but it is far safer to use the sponge dry that when it contains
water, for if the water is squeezed out it remains in the bottom of the bore. The free use of water in sponging is the frequent
cause of accidental explosion. Non but careful, sober men and well instructed, should be allowed to sponge a gun or serve
a vent.”

1843 Premature Ignition. One man killed and loses eyesight when cannon fires while reloading.

1844Premature Ignition. New York. Hemstead Light Guards practicing rapid fire, fires 7 rounds in 1 minute killing
No. 1 man.

1859 Premature Ignition. Barnstable County, Mass. Premature ignition takes off both arms and one eye of the No. 1 man.

1862 Premature Ignition. Perryville, KY. Samuel Decker 4th U.S. Artillery, loses both arms while serving gun during
battle.

1863 Premature Ignition. Man loading gun severely burned when it suddenly discharges in Cape Cod, Mass., while
celebrating July 4th.

1865 Premature Ignition. Two veteran soldiers killed, one loses both arms and one badly burned on firing a town-owned
cannon to celebrate the end of the Civil War, Harwichport, Mass.

1865 Premature Ignition. Former infantryman looses both arms and one eye while firing town cannon to celebrate end of
the Civil War in Sudbury, Mass. Another man is killed (Probably hit by rammer)

1865 Premature Ignition. July 4, Concord, Mass., the No. 1 man loses his arm to premature ignition while firing holiday
salutes.

1871 Premature Ignition. The No. 1 man loses his hand during town celebration ceremonial firing is Massachusetts.

1872 Premature Ignition. Davenport, Iowa. Two men injured in different premature ignitions of two different guns at
July 4 celebration. One has his arm amputated while ramming powder charge and the other is severely burned and blinded
in one eye from a separate premature ignition.

1872 Premature Ignition. July 7, Galena, Ill. No. 1 man suffers broken arm and is burned from “chin to thigh” by cannon
going off while loading.

1872 Premature Ignition. Cleveland, Ohio. No. 1 man receives severe burns when guns fires unexpectedly while loading.

1881 Premature Ignition. Acton, Mass. An untrained crew of Civil War veterans firing salutes from a borrowed cannon
on July 4th has a premature ignition and one man loses his hand.

1882 Cannon Explodes. Lancaster, Pa. Two men are killed when the town cannon blows up after being double charged for
local celebration.

Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

1913 Cannon Explodes. New Mexico. Several people badly injured when cannon explodes during celebration and
shrapnel flies everywhere.

1961-1965 Premature Ignition. Two premature ignitions on National Park Service property, one at Gettysburg, during the
Civil War Centennial celebrations results in permanent ban on live firing at NPS sites without strict supervision and
regulations imposed by Park Service.

1967 Premature Ignition. Connecticut. Boy Scout loses arm while serving as No. 1 man on gun crew during an event held
at a stadium. Crew had previously participated in many competitive shooting events.

1970s Explosion of Powder kills one and injures another in Michigan as vent debris from a mortar firing is suspected as
touching off their limber chest while lid was open.

1970s Premature Ignition. Football game at New Orleans, La. No. 1 man loses both hands due to premature ignition.

1974 Premature Ignition. James Dassatti loses arm while serving as No. 1 man for two original bronze 6 pdrs. at Norwich
University graduation ceremonies in Vermont.

1977 Premature Ignition. Concord, Mass. Man loses one hand and most of another during Memorial Day ceremonies
following official parade.

1977 Premature Ignition. Reenactment in New Jersey. Man loses hand and rammer flies over heads of opposing troops
during Revolutionary War reenactment.

1981 Premature Ignition. San Diego, Calif. Reenactment of Battle of San Diego bay, man loses right hand to rapid fire.

1981 Powder Supply Explosion. Pittsburgh, Pa. 19 injured, one broken ankle, 11 transported to hospital when limber
chest of Revolutionary War era gun blows up while crew is firing pyrotechnic projectiles directly up in the air as part of
waterfront celebration.

1982 Premature Ignition. Cannon used to fire at football games and ceremonies at a military school is overloaded and
fired remotely. Explosion wrecks a car and sends fragments through a dormitory window in February.

1983 Premature Ignition. Provo, Utah. July 4th, man loses both hands and one forearm plus the sight of one eye. Two
others injured. Rapid fire; mixed charge container types involved.

1983 Premature Ignition. Gun goes off unexpectedly as spectator trips over lanyard during waterfront celebration.
Crewmember requires 4 hours of surgery.

1984 Premature Ignition. July 4th cannon owner is in critical condition following explosion of 1820s era cannon during
official parade ceremonies, Long Island, N.Y.

1985 Premature Ignition. Lily, S.D. Man killed when reloading after firing original Napoleon from parade float.

1985 Premature Ignition. Man loses one hand and one eye in Toronto, Canada, during display of rapid fire at a national
park.

1985 Cannon Explosion. Hampton, Va. Overloaded cannon explodes wrecking a car, taking down a food concession tent
and breaking shoulder of a bystander as well as injuring several members of the crew.
Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

1986 Cannon Explosion. July 4th, Milford, N.H., cannon is loaded with smokeless powder. Explosion sends shrapnel into
stomach of woman bystander and cannon owner suffers severe damage to his legs.

1987 Premature Ignition. Reenactment in Tennessee. Man wearing heavy gloves and using tapered rammer is not
seriously injured when a 12 pdr. mountain howitzer has a premature ignition.

1987 Powder Supply Explosion. Norfolk, Va., three seriously injured during a mock sea battle as Chinese pirate junk’s
ammunition supply for black powder cannon blows up when gun fires.

1987 Powder Supply Explosion. Cannon and limber chest explode in Spain killing five people and injuring several more.

1989 Cannon Explosion. Sharon, Vt. Homemade cannon blows up, one man is killed and two others are injured.

1989 Cannon Explosion. San Antonio, Texas, five people injured, two seriously (three broken legs, tow broken arms) and
two more fractured bones when cannon explodes.

1989 Cannon Explosion. Havana, Cuba, old Spanish gun explodes during firing celebration. One killed and 24 people
injured.

1990 Premature Ignition. Man severely injured and blown off back of flatbed truck when cannon he was firing has a
premature ignition in Plymouth, Mass. Three others injured when hit by parts of the rammer that shattered.

1990 Premature Ignition. Meriden, Conn. Larry Cook, maker of cannons and mortars, is injured severely when mortar
goes off as he has his head over the barrel. Firing was signal to start an air show.

1990 Premature Ignition. Boy, 13, loses finger and has extensive surgery to hand as a result of premature ignition of
cannon in San Diego, Calif.

1990 Cannon Explosion. Man killed in Sparta, N.J., when cannon explodes after being overloaded during firing at a
lakeside party.

1992 Cannon Explosion. One man is killed in California as an unlined cannon explodes during firing.

1992 Cannon Explosion. Man has his toes blown off and his boot is found 40 feet away when cannon explodes.

1992 Premature Ignition. Man loses eye and suffers burns in England when cannon goes off as he hits ramming charge.

1993 Premature Ignition. Man loses hand in Temple, Texas, mortar accident.

1993 Cannon Explosion. Two men injured when cannon explodes in England due to overloading.

1993 Cannon Explosion. Man is killed in New Hampshire when a homemade cannon
explodes.

1993 Premature Ignition. Man loses hand in Michigan as he was ramming a cannon using a hammer and a stick.

1994 Fire Ignited. Cannon wadding ignites a field during a public demonstration and 20 people are treated at hospitals
for burns and smoke inhalation in England.

1995 Cannon Explosion. One man is killed in Michigan when cannon explodes and he is hit by pieces.
Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

1995 Premature Ignition. Man loses an eye to a premature discharge of cannon while he is serving as No. 1 man.

1995 Cannon Accident. Man loses an eye while firing potatoes out of a cannon and he gets his head over the bore in
Florida.

1996 Premature Ignition. Two men are injured in a premature discharge of a homemade cannon.

1997 Premature Ignition. Boy loses most of hand and one eye during Cincinnati, Ohio, reenactment. Rapid fire.

1997 Premature Ignition. Two men injured in Gettysburg while giving demonstration of a mountain howitzer. One has
severely damaged right arm and the other gets his thumb burned.

Vol.19, No. 4 Fall 1998 Pg. 2

A Hillsboro, Ore., man was killed in May when his homemade grenade blew up. He had filled a pineapple grenade
shell with black powder. The 34-year-old victim had demolition training in the National Guard and a commercial
explosives license, but had not worked with black powder.
Police said noting happened when the victim first pulled the pin, so he took the grenade apart, fiddled with it and put it
back together. It blew up in his hand, send shrapnel into his head and body.

Vol.20, No. 1 Winter 1998 Pg.10

Booneville, Miss. Two boys were injured when black powder in an ammunition box exploded on Oct. 17. John, 14
received second- and third-degree burns to his hands, arms, and to the lower portion of his face. Jared, 13, also received
second- and third-degree to his arms and chest area while standing about three to five feet away from the box.

Vol. 20, No. 2 Spring 1999 Pg. 3

A black powder accident in Nashville, Ga. Jeff Futch received injuries to his face resulting in being swollen and scarred
and singed his hair. He may still need a procedure to remove embedded powder grains. Jeff believes the explosion was
caused by static electricity.

Vol. 20, No. 4 Fall 1999 Pg. 2

According to another news account a 47-year-old man in Washington was tamping gunpowder into a metal tube when a
spark set it off, shooting the rammer at him. He was firing a 3-inch diameter pipe about a foot-and-a-half long welded to a
flat plate with a hole in the bottom of the vent. His household also had a homemade shoulder-mounted pipe resembling a
bazooka, two pipe bombs, film canisters filled with explosives, and fuses, all for recreation use according to police.
Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

Vol. 21, No. 2 Spring 2000 Pg. 3

A modern artillery accident made headlines in January. Soldiers were firing 155mm howitzer rounds at night on a
range at Ford Hood, Texas. One tube in the battery was pointed exactly 180 degrees opposite the others and no one noticed.
Eleven high-explosive shells and an illumination round went off base. Four houses were within a few hundred yards of the
shells.

Vol. 22, No. 4 Fall 2001 Pg. 2

A football player’s dad in Trenton, Mo., was killed at a game on Sept. 7. The cannon was always reloaded after each
firing. On this night the game was called due to bad weather. As the cannon is being loaded up, some men noticed it had
not been fired yet. They pulled the lanyard while Bud Meek, 41, was standing at the muzzle.

A 9-year-old from Delaware was killed at a July 3rd party in Altoona, Pa., when a “makeshift cannon” flew 120 feet.
Kyle Dolan was killed instantly when the pipe hit him in the face.

Another deadly July 4 accident occurred near Gettysburg, Pa., in Butler Township when a steel pipe with a welded cap
exploded on the third shot. The “cannon” had been fired for several years and for two earlier shots, but, in an attempt to get
more bang, it was packed with smokeless powder for the third shot.

Shrapnel hit a 22-year-old in the chest and killed him instantly. A 7-year-old was hit in the thighs and hospitalized for
two days

An August accident in Plymouth, Mass., when brothers 16 and 24 were sparking black powder with a lighter. The older
brother lost his hand and the younger one had facial burns and temporary deafness.

Vol. 23, No. 4 Fall 2002, Pg. 2

Police in New Haven, Ill., were investigating a fatal cannon accident that happened when a recently purchased
“Civil War type” cannon, that was fired earlier in the day on July 13, was fired around 12:30 a.m. the next day. The first
shot was a “dud,” and the gun was reloaded with smokeless powder and wadding. The gun exploded on the second shot,
with shrapnel killing one man and wounding eight other people.

A 1998 trial in New South Wales, Australia, on charges filed after a theme park cannon explosion in 1996 was reported.
Old Sydney Town had two 4 pdrs. which costumed employees fired with wadding. During loading one of the guns fired
prematurely. The man stopping the vent had finger burns and temporary deafness while the two in front suffered temporary
deafness, burns and lacerations. The park owner was prosecuted for occupational and health safety act violations. The park
pleaded guilty to one charge, was fined $35,000 and reduced cannon firing to once a day.
Among safety violations: failure to worm properly, failure to adequately wet and dry sponge, failure to ensure that at
least 3 minutes elapsed between firing and loading a new charge, failure to ensure that the person ramming held the rammer
underhand with one hand and thumb to the side, failure to ensure that person stopping the vent was wearing leather
thumbstall or pliable leather glove and failure to ensure that no one was in from of the muzzle line during ramming.

Cannon Accidents Reported or Recapped from 1996-2003

Vol. 24, No. 2 Spring 2003, Pg. 2

A reader sent a clipping of a July 4, early 1900s, accident in Beaumont, Texas, involving the Revolutionary War Jasper
Rifles and their Civil War period cannon. The gun fired prematurely, blowing off the arm of a nearby newspaper reporter.
Years later a witness told a newspaper that the commander, former Confederate Capt. E.I. Kelly, wept and repeatedly said,
“I didn’t even touch a match to it.”
The Jasper rifles went home without the cannon which remains on the Orange County courthouse square. It is a M1857
12.-pdr. Napoleon cast by Revere Copper Co. in 1863.

Vol. 24, No. 3 Summer 2003, Pg. 19

Excerpt of March 2, 1841, Ordnance Board instructions for firing cannon is reprinted. It begins: ”The accidental
explosions of cannon, by which many lives and limbs are lost annually, are generally caused by fragments of the burning
cartridge from a previous discharge remaining in the gun, and which are not extinguished before the next charge is
inserted.”
The Secretary of War directed that the instructions be prepared. They conclude: “None but careful, sober men, and well
instructed should be allowed to sponge a gun or serve the vent.”

Vol. 24, No. 4 Fall 2003, Pg. 7

A 16-year-old Boy Scout was killed when a cannon he was firing as part of the daily evening flag ceremony blew apart
and he was hit with shrapnel. The Oregon Occupational Safety and Health Administration was investigating the incident at
Camp Meriwether near Tillamook.
At the time of publication it was not known what kind of cannon was involved. It was described as having a bore of
1.25 to 1.5 inches and had misfired. Wadding, possibly a potato, was reported to have been used.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 09:49:28 AM »
Humm, something to think about.

Quote
1841 Premature Ignition. U.S. War Department directs Ordnance Board to find a way to stop premature ignitions
which are killing so many men during artillery drills. “The accidental explosions of cannon by which many lives and
limbs are lost annually, are generally caused by fragments of the burning cartridge from a previous discharge remaining
in the gun and which are not extinguished before the next charge is inserted.”
Capt. Benjamin Huger (later General), Secretary of the Ordnance Board, recommends: “Care should be taken not to use a
very wet sponge. If it is slightly dampened it may do no harm, but it is far safer to use the sponge dry that when it contains
water, for if the water is squeezed out it remains in the bottom of the bore. The free use of water in sponging is the frequent
cause of accidental explosion. Non but careful, sober men and well instructed, should be allowed to sponge a gun or serve
a vent.”

Offline subdjoe

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2009, 10:15:36 AM »
That has been part of my talk on artillery drill at reenactments for a few years now.  My thought is that it would, or could, be a huge problem with iron guns. Not so much with bronze, wrought iron, or steel.  The excess water will flash to steam instanty, greatly increasing pressure.  The other side of that is that if you load and have to hold fire, excess water in the bore will contaminate the powder and you get a ppppttttt rather than a Boom. 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2009, 10:29:03 AM »
So the flash to steam blows the unburned powder out the barrel where it ignites...is that it?

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2009, 10:55:06 AM »
doug when i was up there in mont. a waitress told me of some sort of accedent in shelby or greatfalls .

she said someone blew up a water melon or tryed shooting a watermelon???? not sure .
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2009, 11:29:08 AM »
So the flash to steam blows the unburned powder out the barrel where it ignites...is that it?

My thought is that the water flashing to steam when the piece is discharged causes an overpressure and busts the barrel, the "accidental explosion" that Huger mentions.  Reading accounts of the cannon accidents (incidents?)  during drill or celebration it seems like they as often burst on firing as discharged prematurely when loading.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline thelionspaw

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2009, 11:48:51 AM »
Steam!  Now that analysis is probably the most important thing that has ever been added to our safe handling since the regulation artillery drill was compiled. Whoduh thunk it!

Thanks!

rc
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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2009, 12:23:22 PM »
That is just my horseback guess.  But, it make sense.  That powder going off is hot enough to incinerate, or at least melt, aluminum. So it is hot enough to instantly turn any water in the bore into superheated steam. That can add significant pressure to the system.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2009, 12:30:01 PM »
Quote
1841 Premature Ignition. U.S. War Department directs Ordnance Board to find a way to stop premature ignitions
which are killing so many men during artillery drills. “The accidental explosions of cannon by which many lives and
limbs are lost annually, are generally caused by fragments of the burning cartridge from a previous discharge remaining
in the gun and which are not extinguished before the next charge is inserted.”
Capt. Benjamin Huger (later General), Secretary of the Ordnance Board, recommends: “Care should be taken not to use a
very wet sponge. If it is slightly dampened it may do no harm, but it is far safer to use the sponge dry that when it contains
water, for if the water is squeezed out it remains in the bottom of the bore. The free use of water in sponging is the frequent
cause of accidental explosion. Non but careful, sober men and well instructed, should be allowed to sponge a gun or serve
a vent.”

Let me requote the passage.  They are talking about premature ignition, not bursting when fired. It appears the water hits a hot spot and flashes to steam....Capt Huger is talking about sponging, not firing.

Offline subdjoe

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2009, 02:42:49 PM »
"Capt. Benjamin Huger (later General), Secretary of the Ordnance Board, recommends: “Care should be taken not to use a
very wet sponge. If it is slightly dampened it may do no harm, but it is far safer to use the sponge dry that when it contains
water, for if the water is squeezed out it remains in the bottom of the bore. The free use of water in sponging is the frequent
cause of accidental explosion. "

I am obviously taking a different interpretation. Capt. Huger says "if the water is squeezed out it remains in the bottom of the bore."  and "accidental explosion."   If water is left in the bottom of the bore, what happens when the piece is fired?  The only reasonable thing is that it turn to steam.  And the added pressure from that steam could result in a burst barrel. 

For water from a sponge to convert to steam fast enough to cause an explosion on its own, the barrel would need to be almost glowing. And then none would collect in the bottom of the bore.
 
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2009, 04:02:18 PM »
They were investigating " Premature Ignition. U.S. War Department directs Ordnance Board to find a way to stop premature ignitions
which are killing so many men during artillery drills." Why would he recommend some that has nothing to with premature ignition.  It says nothing at all about guns bursting on firing in that section.

Granted  a steam explosion upon firing sounds more reasonable. 


Offline subdjoe

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2009, 04:51:08 PM »
The problem with premature discharge (DON'T go there Joe!) was seen by the OD to be caused by embers and fragments still smouldering in the tube  (perfectly reasonable - a canvas or silk bag of powder on top of embers IS likely to cause a rather surpsrising and unforunate incident).  The obvious way to put out the embers is to use a really wet sponge to flood and drown them, and Huger was waring against going with the obvious.  Think of  his comment more like: "To prevent this type of event a damp sponge should be used to extinguish any embers in the bore.  However, care should be taken..."   I would like to see the full text.   
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 06:25:46 PM »
Yeah, the full text might clarify the mud....

Offline Victor3

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2009, 10:08:43 PM »
 Just a guess, but it may be that using a very wet sponge could saturate some of the powder at the bottom of the charge, causing it to remain unburned after firing. If not thoroughly sponged on subsequent loadings, it could dry out some between shots and form a substantial ember.

 Is it possible that the small amount of water left after a soggy sponging would add significant pressure as steam? I guess so, but it doesn't seem likely to me. Considering the small amount of water in a fairly large chamber area (along with reduced efficiency of wet powder), I'd think it would be a wash at best.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2009, 03:26:47 AM »
Victor,

There are times when witnessing you reach conclusions by utilizing your working inteligence operating through common sense, that I almost feel a sense of wonder. :D


"V: Dry sponge the bore
After wet sponging, repeat Step IV with the dry sponge.
The dry sponge should be cleaned and dried off periodically with an absorbent towel-type rag. (The purpose of the dry sponge is to remove excess moisture from the bore; if water is left in the bore it may cause incomplete burning of the next powder charge, leaving hot glowing embers and powder residue)."

"DRYING. After the barrel has been mopped it must be dried out with dry mop(s) before it can be reloaded. If this is not done some powder is likely to stick to the barrel and could subsequently become a hazard. It is worth noting that gunpowder becomes more unstable when it is damp."
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline RocklockI

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2009, 05:56:15 AM »
thats a new one to me . wheres armor77 who wants to blow up a cannnon ?
"I've seen too much not to stay in touch , With a world full of love and luck, I got a big suspicion 'bout ammunition I never forget to duck" J.B.

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2009, 06:04:20 AM »
Steam has nothing to do with it.  This issue involves powder becoming damp or slightly damp from excessive water in the chamber area, and also cloth cartridges becoming slightly damp.  When the slightly dampened cloth cartridge is fired, the damp part won't be consumed, but will smoulder, and if not removed by careful worming and sponging, can ignite the next round that's loaded while the ramrod is in the bore.  You don't necessarily need a damp bore to get smouldering embers, so careful worming, sponging, and waiting are all essential in my opinion.  The waiting (3 min. last time I checked?) gives time for any possible embers to die out, "just in case."  I guess it is possible to have foil bits that are hot enough to ignite another charge, but that's a lot less likely than with cloth cartridges.

As stated above:
Quote
if water is left in the bore it may cause incomplete burning of the next powder charge, leaving hot glowing embers and powder residue

Offline subdjoe

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2009, 06:23:50 AM »
Victor,

There are times when witnessing you reach conclusions by utilizing your working inteligence operating through common sense, that I almost feel a sense of wonder. :D


"V: Dry sponge the bore
After wet sponging, repeat Step IV with the dry sponge.
The dry sponge should be cleaned and dried off periodically with an absorbent towel-type rag. (The purpose of the dry sponge is to remove excess moisture from the bore; if water is left in the bore it may cause incomplete burning of the next powder charge, leaving hot glowing embers and powder residue)."

"DRYING. After the barrel has been mopped it must be dried out with dry mop(s) before it can be reloaded. If this is not done some powder is likely to stick to the barrel and could subsequently become a hazard. It is worth noting that gunpowder becomes more unstable when it is damp."

I obviously was way off. I expected that the powder would be consumed, or if damp, blown out.  Good to learn new things.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline Double D

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2009, 07:44:20 AM »
Okay, now it make sense.

Wet sponge leaves water.  Charge gets wet and leave smouldering debris after firing. Next charge gets rammed in on top of smoldering debris.

The drill is very important. 

Ten Step Standard Procedure from National Safety Rules and Procedures for Shooting Muzzleloading Artillery, as adapted by the American Artillery Association March 2000


I Clean the Vent
Clean the vent as the first step in each cleaning, loading and firing sequence. Proceed as follows:


Use a .22 caliber or appropriately sized bronze cleaning brush on a suitable rod and brush the entire vent twice.

If no brush is available, the alternative method is to run the priming pick or gimlet up and down the vent twice, twisting to make sure the vent is completely free of powder bag remnants.

II Stop the Vent
Seal the vent with thumb pressure during the entire cleaning and loading process. This means no air should escape the vent from the time the worm enters the muzzle until the rammer is removed after the projectile has been seated. Use a leather thumbstall or heavy glove to protect your thumb to protect your thumb and make a tight seal.

III Worm the Bore
Using a tool with two sharp steel points which replicates an original cannon cleaning worm, worm the bore until all debris is removed. Turn the worm at the breech to pick up any powder container remnants and to loosen any powder residue. The worm should fit closely so the points will pick up debris easily.

IV Wet Sponge the Bore
Sponge with a wet (but not sopping) tight-fitting sponge with a head of lambswool or wool carpeting over a wooden cylinder affixed to a shaft at least one foot longer than the bore. The end of the sponge head should conform to the shape of the breechplug.
Seat the sponge against the breech with hand pressure and give two full rotations of the shaft. Withdraw the sponge half-length, twist, then reseat against the breech and give another two full rotations.
Remove the sponge. If any powder container remnants or unburned powder comes out with the sponge, repeat the entire process, starting with Step III Worm.

V Dry Sponge the Bore
After wet sponging, the same procedure is used with the dry sponge. The dry sponge is cleaned and dried off periodically with an absorbent towel-type rag. (The purpose of the dry sponge is to remove excess moisture from the bore; if water is left in the bore it may cause incomplete burning of the next powder charge, leaving dangerously glowing residue.)

VI Load Powder
Use a crooked shaft U-shaped rammer if available. If not, use a plain wooden pole without a head, or with a smoothly tapered head (made like a U.S. Model 1841 "Mississippi Rifle" ramrod), so that it might force the hand open should premature ignition occur.
Mark the rammer in advance in two places, one to show the amount of shaft which should be sticking out the muzzle when the charge is seated and the other to show when the projectile is seated.
The ammunition chest should be located 25 feet behind the gun and 25 feet forward of the spectator line. Powder charges should be prepared in advance as specified in Safety Rules 1 and 2 below, wrapped in heavy-duty aluminum foil.
Open the chest only long enough to remove one charge in its safety container. (Do not open chest following warning that a gun is about to fire until 10 seconds after that gun has fired to prevent hot vent debris from falling into the chest.)
Carry charge to gun in fireproof safety container. Do not proceed to load unless 3 minutes has elapsed since the gun was last fired. Check your watch.
Open safety container. Remove foil-wrapped charge and place it in the muzzle with one hand while wearing heavy leather gloves (see above).
Wearing heavy gloves, stand to the side of barrel with as much of your body as possible behind the plane of the muzzle. Grasp rammer underhand, with one hand, thumb to the side. Seat the charge lightly with smooth strokes. Do not pound the rammer against the charge.
Immediately upon feeling the charge reach the breech, drop your hand away, releasing the rammer. After 10 seconds and after ascertaining the charge is fully home (according to the rammer marks) remove the rammer, one hand, underhand, thumb to the side. This may require grasping and releasing the shaft a few times. Never two hands on the rammer.

VII Load Projectile
The projectile loading procedure is the same as that for powder. The rammer is operated with short strokes, one hand, underhand, thumb to the side, until the mark shows the projectile has been fully seated.
No projectile should fit the bore so tightly as to be difficult to seat. All projectiles should pass wasily through a bore sized ring gauge.
Be sure the projectile is seated fully against the powder charge.
Upon completion of loading, person ramming shall indicate to the person holding the vent that the gun is fully loaded. The vent may then be released.

VIII Pick the Charge
To insure ignition, pick the powder charge wrapper through the vent with a pick or gimlet held by the shaft, between glove protected fingers.

The pick shall be constructedof a non-sparking material.

IX Prime
Priming the vent depends on the type of ignition used. Typical systems are: linstock and priming powder, fuse, priming quills, friction primers, .22 blank, and percussion cap.
If priming powder is used, prime from an open topped container constructed to hold just enough 4F or 3F powder to fill the vent. The priming device should have a handle so that the hand is never over the vent when pouring the loose powder. Priming is not done directly from powder horns or flasks.
Hot debris is apt to be blown out the vent on discharge. Crew members should wear hats for protection, spectators kept at a safe distance, and all ammunition chests closed whenever any gun is firing.

X Fire the Gun
The person designated to ignite the charge calls out "Ready to fire" in a loud voice to alert other crews on the line that a gun is about to fire and to notify the gun captain that the piece is primed. At this call, any open ammunition chests are immediately closed. The gun captain makes a quick visual inspection of the range forward of the muzzle to make sure no one is in danger and then commands "Fire". The time between "Ready to Fire" and "Fire" should be at least five seconds. The primer is then ignited.
Priming powder, fuse and priming quills are ignited with a linstock which is long enough to allow the cannoneer to stand outside the wheels. The linstock holds the burning slow match made of cotton rope impregnated with potassium nitrate or lead acetate to make it burn.
If a lanyard is used to ignite friction primers, or to activate a lock using percussion caps or blank cartridge, it should be long enough to allow the cannoneer to stand outside the wheels and out of the way of recoil.


Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2009, 09:28:45 AM »
Thanks DD, for publishing, once again, WHAT SHOULD BE DONE.  Taking shortcuts is taking risks.

Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Victor3

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2009, 07:30:26 PM »
Victor,

There are times when witnessing you reach conclusions by utilizing your working inteligence operating through common sense, that I almost feel a sense of wonder. :D

 I'm flattered Boom, but just ask my Wife about the majority of my conclusions. She'll tell ya all about them other times, and I can't dispute most of what she says ;D
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2009, 01:25:21 AM »
What do you mean you can't dispute the facts? Of course you can dispute the facts, I do it often: "Well Dear, I just don't think you're right in thinking me wrong !" :D
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Victor3

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2009, 03:15:44 AM »
 Boom J,

 You obviously don't have any fryin' pans where your Wife can reach 'em. Cast iron trumps logic every time...
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly, one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."

Sherlock Holmes

Offline Cannoneer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2009, 06:36:50 PM »
Thank goodness my wife isn't all that into causing blunt force trauma on parts of my anatomy with inanimate objects. Once upon a time, (many moons ago) my wife decided that my actions had warranted the behavior modification technique of being bludgeoned on the top of my head with the heel of my own work boot as I was sitting on the stairs trying to remove the other boot from my foot (a task that was easier said than done at the time). It then and there dawned upon me (in one of those moments of intense clarity, you might even describe as an epiphany) that it would be in my best interests if I never again caused her to become this irate again. ;)
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.

Offline Cat Whisperer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2009, 12:34:35 AM »



Wisdom.    ;)
Tim K                 www.GBOCANNONS.COM
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Offline Cannoneer

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Re: List of past cannon accidents
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2009, 10:45:24 AM »
And hard won wisdom at that! Hard in this case, could be considered descriptive of the boot heel, and/or my thick skull. :D
RIP John. While on vacation July 4th 2013 in northern Wisconsin, he was ATVing with family and pulled ahead of everyone and took off at break-neck speed without a helmet. He lost control.....hit a tree....and the tree won.  He died instantly.

The one thing that you can almost always rely on research leading to, is more research.