Author Topic: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report  (Read 5111 times)

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Offline Blackhawker

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Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« on: October 29, 2009, 06:55:29 AM »
Well, I went to the store to pick up my new Metroarms American Classic 2 yesterday and immediately took it into the store's range.  With me I brought two boxes of various re-loads and a box of factory PMC 230 grain hardball ammo.  How did it shoot?  Well, let's just say that the only round I managed to fire from it (a hollow point reload of all things) fell about a quarter inch to the left of the bullseye at about 25 ft.  Was this the way the pistol shot consistently?  I don't really know because I never managed to get it to fire one more round.  In fact, it took me at least 20 or 30 attempts to get the pistol to chamber a round and it was by chance and surprise that it fired. 

I ran round after round through that pistol and every one of them jammed up in the chamber.  It seems to me that the problem occurs when the cartridge is feeding into the throat of the barrel and as the rim is sliding under the extractor.  In fact, I believe the extractor is the problem or the timing of when the cartridge slides into the extractor is the problem.  ???  Whatever it is, the gun does not work.  In a defense situation, I'd be better throwing the pistol at my adversary and running rather than shooting at him or her.  So basically, I have a nice $400 tomahawk.   >:(

On a serious note, when I had reported how the pistol worked to the shop manager, he immediately grabbed more factory ammo and he tried it as well.  He was very surprised to see this pistol not function as he has seen others work quite well and I've heard the same from others.  He tried and tried and just couldn't get a round to lock up into battery.  Finally, with his thumbs pushing forward HARD, he managed to fully close the slide and he fired one or two shots before a jam.  Again he tried and got the same sequence of events.  I picked up the brass that was ejected and it was literally mangled on the rim where the extractor was holding it.  Other brass (unfired rounds) that were cycled were either heavily scarred or mangled (bullet and brass).  After 10 or so minutes of trying to get the pistol to fire, there were literally shreds of brass all over in the chamber. 

Needless to say, the pistol is going back to the distributor for either repair or replacement.  My hopes are that replacement is what is going to be the course of action.  Ironically, the test cartridge that came with the pistol also has quite a gouge on the rim from the extractor and I hope that when it arrives back at the distributor they see this as well.  Am I angry?  Well, let's just say I'm pretty let down.  No pistol EVER should leave a factory like this!  I realize that this is an "economy" pistol and not a Kimber or Colt or the like but there is NO excuse for something like this.  At best, this is a safety hazard and potential liability to the manufacturer.  With a shooter attempting to cycle rounds and unjam rounds as I had to from this pistol, there is a high probability of an accidental misfire and accident.  Overall, let's just say I probably should have stuck with buying myself another single action revolver.....another Blackhawk, but we live and learn.

When I get the pistol back (whenever that is???) I'll be sure to give a report as to service, repair, and turnover.

Question:  Has anyone else experience something like this?

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 01:03:18 PM »
Wow sorry to hear of your problems with the American Classic II.I have one and it eats anything i have tried.That one you have is one of few it seems that should never have left the factory floor.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 01:52:28 PM »
Blackhawk:  is this a 1911/1911A1 design or does it wear a external extractor?  It sounds like you should replace the extractor.  you can do this yourself if this is a mil-spec piece, and it would be a very inexpensive and short piece of work.

I had a Colt once that kicked out empties that were gouged at the rim - the piece functioned but I thought I was looking at a future busted extractor so I just pulled it out and polished it.  I also polished the extractor channel and never had another piece of gouged brass.  HTH.

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 05:14:33 PM »
It is an internal extractor and they are milspec.

Blackhawker,check-out "M1911 pistol organization forums",lots of info on most all 1911 type pistols.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 01:46:31 AM »
A new extactor should fix that.  And for less than ten dollars.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 03:15:24 AM »
New extractor or whatever it is (that's my suspicion too), a brand new pistol should NEVER leave the factory if it doesn't operate.  If anything, Metroarms needs to know about this and have it sent back to them.  This (extractor) is only one problem with it thus far found.  Maybe there are others that haven't shown their face yet...due to not working at all.  I think sending it back was the best thing to do, even if it's a quick ten dollar fix.  If Metro isn't aware of quality issues like this now, then down the road they'll let more crap past their QC people and the next thing you know, we'll all be buying screwed up 45's from them.....then they'll be known as crap.  Right?

If you bought a new car and the battery was dead, would you go to WalMart and buy a new one or take it back to the dealer?  Get my point??

I do appreciate the assistance here, don't get me wrong.  I thank you all for the help and the links for further help.  I just think a new gun needs to operate like a new gun......and just OPERATE.  I will let you all know what comes out of this so we can get an idea of what to expect from Metro as far as service etc.

Thanks again for your input!

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 04:59:36 AM »
I agree with you .Send it back.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 01:37:19 AM »
BGRooster1 x 2.

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2009, 04:12:32 AM »
A little update here:
I went to the store in which I had purchased my American Classic and while I was there I inquired as to whether anyone had heard anything about my pistol.  The salesperson behind the counter told me that the manager of the store is no longer going to sell Metroarms American Classics since there have been so many problems with them.  I asked about the troubles and was told the following:

Another person purchased the same pistol as I had within only a few days of my purchase and he/she had the same problem I had with mine.  BOTH pistols were to be sent back to the distributor but the distributor instructed the owner/manager of the store to send them to the local Gander Mountain store and have their gunsmith work on them.  Knowing that was a "lame" idea and knowing the reputation of the local Gander Mt. gunsmith, the owner/manager refused and insisted on sending the pistols to the Metroarms distributor.  I guess that after some arguing back and forth, the distributor finally gave in and allowed for them to be sent back.  All I know right now is that they went to a Minnesota location and I have no idea how long or, now I'm wondering, IF I'll ever see my pistol again...working or not.

I'll keep all of you posted on what happens.  I really wish I would have bought something else!

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 11:02:43 AM »
My guess is the pistols are going to Ahlman's in Morristown,MN..Some of the guys at M1911 orginazation forum have sent their pistol to Reyerson's in Baton Rouge,LA with excellant results.All warranty work goes to 5 different gunsmiths or Gandermountain.Should be in your paper that came with the pistol.Hope this helps anyone that may need it,and I hope you can enjoy your pistol soon Blackhawker.

                                                    Brian
                                                       G.

p.s.sorry I didn't get this to you sooner

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2009, 06:25:18 AM »
Ironically, on the evening of my last post, the gun shop called my home and said that my pistol had arrived.  I picked it up and tried it out on Friday.  First off, I learned a little about how the Metroarms distributor works as far as warrantee work goes.  Had I been able to take the pistol home with me on the first day, I would have read the paperwork that came with it.  Brian G, you're correct.  There are five gunsmiths that are registered with the Metroarms U.S. distributor as well as any Gander Mt. store.  My pistol went to Ahlman's in MN. 

What was wrong with it?
I guess, from what the gunsmith said, the chamber was not reamed correctly (too tight) and had to be reamed a second time.  That's it!  The gunsmith had reported to the store manager that this seems to be a reoccurring problem with the American Classics lately. 

Here is how things went: 
I took the pistol into the range right away instead of inspecting it in the front of the store.  It appears that whomever was handling the pistol didn't handle it with much care.  Albeit the grip panels are ugly as sin and are going to be replaced, there are now two chips on them.  I also found a very noticeable scratch and almost marring across the grooves of the mainspring housing.  There are a few other minor scratches in the finish as well but hardly noticeable.  So basically, I had at the time, a pistol that looks as if it were a year old and I hadn't had the chance to even shoot it.  Nice!  >:(

How does it shoot? 
I realize that autos need some break in....about 500 rounds of break in, so I'm not really sure if this is typical or bad or what.  ???  However, when I bought my series 80 Colt back in the early 90's, I do not recall having any cycling problems with it from the start.  Nonetheless, I would say that about every third round, I have to push the slide forward in order to lock a round into battery.  Some magazines full shot flawlessly while some needed a push forward on every round or every other round.  Overall, within the 150 rounds I fired through it, I probably had to remove the magazine and completely clear the chamber about 10 to maybe 15 times, which is probably pretty acceptable for a new autoloader.  This seemed to occur more as the pistol was fired more and more and became fouled.
Upon analysis of my brass, I noticed that every case had funny scratch-like rings on them....somewhat concentric rings around the case that almost looked as if they had been brushed on or into the sides of the case.  Also noted, the extractor of this pistol really does a number on casings.  The rims were all gnashed and bashed.  NASTY!   ::)
As far as the rings on the casings goes, it is my guess that the chamber may have been reamed but not polished or just reamed poorly.  ???  Unfortunately, I haven't had too much time this weekend to give it a detailed inspection.  I hope take a closer look tonight.

Service and representation of Metroarms:
The store manager told me that they had four of these pistols.  Of the four pistols, two were sold and both had to be serviced for the same reason.  The interaction with the US distributor apparently wasn't so good.  In fact, it was bad enough that the store owner is sending the remaining two pistols back for a refund.  They do not want to sell any more of these pistols.  Ironically, from what I was told, the distributor has been having a hard time lately with these pistols as well.  This is all "word of mouth" here....just what I've been told.  With that, anything can be true...or false for that matter.  ???

Anyway, that's the story.  All in all, with the exception of having to send a new pistol back for repairs, having a few dings and scratches put in it and an "iffy" cycling (not sure if it's typical for new pistols), the darn thing shot great and I'm fairly happy so far considering this was a $380 gun.  Hopefully the cycling problem will work itself out and get better as it breaks in.  I'll probably have the chamber polished a little if not.  Much to my surprise, it has a decent trigger pull, shot accurately, and no adjustments will be needed on the sights.  Using a four inch black circle target, shooting off hand, I was able to keep all eight rounds of each magazine in the black at 75 feet time and time again.  Not too bad!   :)

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2009, 09:11:44 AM »
I would certainly talk to them about the scratches and gouges, Yes I would.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2009, 09:35:00 AM »
William,
I agree with you but then I disagree.  As much as I have been "wronged" with gouges and scratches, I have asked myself, "do I actually expect someone to do something about this?"  This isn't the 1970's or 80's anymore.  I can recall back 20 or 30 years ago when quality and workmanship meant everything.  These days no one gives a dang!  The dealer or whomever would probably tell me that I did it or "oh well, the gunsmith did that...we can't take responsibility for that!"  No on takes responsibility for their actions these days.  It's a buyer beware world when it comes to service.  Heck, I even got stuck with having to pay shipping charges on this thing.....a gun that didn't work when I bought it and I would have never bought it if I knew that ahead of time.  Why should I pay the charges?  Because the dealer didn't back it (take responsibility for it) and the repair shop called it a warrantee job (not taking responsibility for it).  So, I got stuck with it.  No one took responsibility for the original issue nor the payment of the shipping.  See what I mean?  I guess companies today think that they're doing you a BIG favor by giving you a 1 year warrantee or something.  Like they're really bending over backwards doing that as they're making money hand over fist. 

Take, for example, your automobile.  How many times have you taken your car in for service on one thing and it came back with problems somewhere else, or it came back to you with a stain on the seat or a ding in the paint?  Taking a $380 pistol back for a ding would be more of a hassle than it's worth and it would probably come back with a crappy touch up job that I could do better myself or a second and third ding somewhere else.  Heck, the dealer would probably tell me..."aw, it's only a $380 pistol, it's not like it's a Kimber or something."  Add to that, I'd get stuck with another shipping fee!  I feel I've been beaten enough with this thing.  I don't want to go back for more beatings.

Sorry to sound so negative but that's the way it is these days....we've all been there, I'm sure.

Offline Savage

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2009, 10:04:49 AM »
I totally agree that pride in the job done is a thing of the past in the majority of cases!  It sounds like you may still have chamber problems as the case is scored on chambering, and the gun fails to return to battery. This could also cause the round could also be difficult to extract causing the rim damage. A quick polish of the chamber might solve that problem. (Make sure the pistol is properly lubed as well) In my experience it is not normal to have that number of malfunctions regardless of the round count. If the above steps don't solve your problem, it's going to take some talent and money to fix. I wish you the best sir.
Savage
 
An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last,

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2009, 10:19:24 AM »
I totally agree that pride in the job done is a thing of the past in the majority of cases!  It sounds like you may still have chamber problems as the case is scored on chambering, and the gun fails to return to battery. This could also cause the round could also be difficult to extract causing the rim damage. A quick polish of the chamber might solve that problem. (Make sure the pistol is properly lubed as well) In my experience it is not normal to have that number of malfunctions regardless of the round count. If the above steps don't solve your problem, it's going to take some talent and money to fix. I wish you the best sir.
Savage


Thanks Savage.  When I saw the scoring on the cases, I immediately thought about the chamber needing polishing.  It makes sense that extraction would be difficult if chambering of a non-expanded case is tough, it would only be tougher on a dirty expanded case...hence the rim damage.  Good thinking!
I'm going to talk to friend of mine tonight who is quite a knowledgeable gunsmith.  I'll give him the story and see what he says.  He's probably built more 45's than most of us will ever have the chance to shoot.  He should have some good advice as well.

Thanks again Savage!
Chris

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2009, 01:47:49 PM »
Hope this ends up some how better than it's been.

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 05:59:57 AM »
It amazes me that people are surprised about a fall in qaulity.  All the kids that have been pushed through school that would have been held back in the "old" days have jobs now.  What do we expect?  Half the time the casheers can't make correct change.  How can we expect technical skills to be any better with an uneducated society?  Forgive an old mans rant, but as long as the "silent majority" in this country keeps staying away from the elections, we reep what we sow. ???  Rawhidekid
NRA Life Member, Retired Air Force, Grandfather:   RIA 38 Super, , Vaquaro .357, Golden Boy 39A .22,  54cal GPR, 54 cal Lyman plains pistol, 45 cal Kentucky Rifle perc, 50 cal traditions Hawken Woodsman

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 11:38:26 AM »
While I understand the thought on quality--I also know it won't happen unless you ask.
How do i put this without projecting a demand on my part---it is after all your weapon.
I expect/like/want quality.
I like quality in my weapons---THAT is me. I sure want folks too try.
Now if it was me---and it is not---I would do what it took to try and get this thing back to the shape it should have been presented too you, in the beginning.
Best of luck with the project.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 08:18:25 PM »
Hold on to your hats, the saga continues:
I spoke with my friend a few days ago and without him actually looking at it, he suggested polishing the chamber a bit in order to see if feeding issues are at least slighly resolved.  His instructions involved obtaining and using a fired casing from my chamber.  Well, as I was hunting through all of my spent brass, I collected quite a few pieces and inspected them thouroghly.  While picking through them, a couple that I seleted fell on their sides and began to roll across the table.  As they rolled, something cought my eye.  YES, they wobbled as they rolled!!  I looked closely at the cases and they appeared to be oblong in shape when looking down the front of the spent cases.  I began to roll all of the cases that were fired from this gun one after another and they ALL wobbled and ALL were oblong. I measured the internal diameter and there is a variance of 10/1000" from the narrowest area to the widest.  This means that the supposed gunsmith that worked on, or should I say "worked OVER" my pistol had reamed the chamber incorrectly or off-center.  YIKES!!! ??? 

So, aside from gashing and bashing this new pistol, the gunsmith (blacksmith) had also RUINED my barrel.  Geez, did my pistol get reamed or did I??  >:(  Needless to say, I took the pistol back to the store in which I had purchased it.  One of the sales reps said the same thing that someone else here had already mentioned; why didn't they just drop a new barrel in?  It's a 1911 pistol with all mil-spec parts.  They easily could have changed the barrel rather than hacking on the one that it came with.  Plus, if they didn't hack at my barrel, maybe they wouldn't have bashed up the rest of the pistol either.  It now seems to me that perhaps my pistol was given to an apprentice in order to give him or her some practce.  ???

Anyway, the store manager packed up my pistol once more and told me that they wer going to talk this over with the distibutor, whom is apparently not easy to get a hold of from what I was told.   I suggested getting me a new pistol and they said that's what they are going to try for.  We'll see what happens.   ::)

I'm tired of this.  I now wish I never bought this pistol and just bought another Blackhawk.

Offline Mikey

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 12:36:49 AM »
Blackhawker:  brass gets pounded like that on the way ouot the ejection port - it does not mean your chamber has been reamed out of specs. 

I think I recommended once before you dump that pistol and spend the extra $ for a upgrade.  I really don't think it's the pistol, it's probably some sales policy that precludes you from immediately getting the kind of service you need - a new extractor and a new barrel.  Both parts are so interchangeable in the 1911 it is not worth the angst wondering if a gunsmith buggered up your chamber.

Dump the piece and get something better.  Inexpensive is inexpensive, but cheap is cheap.  jmtcw.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 11:59:45 AM »
Again. YUP!
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline BGRooster1

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2009, 02:06:11 PM »
I'm going to try something for you Blackhawker.If it works I may be a genious.If not then I'm just me.
I will try to speak to someone in the philipines at Metro Arms.I feel that they don't know what is going on here with the distributor in the U.S..It seems that any time someone calls them[the distributor] they get the cold shoulder and /or a poor excuse for customer service.I would think that the dist. would want to make the customer happy.
 You all may be thinking,Why does he seem to care so much about this?Well my wife is from the Islands and she is a little embarressed at how her country is being represented.I myself just want to do what ever I can to help.

Offline jimster

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2009, 06:39:55 AM »
It all sounds sounds frustrating, sorry to hear about so much trouble over a new pistol and customer service.  My thoughts are...

No defensive pistol should ever leave the factory that does not function period, if the manufacturer needs to charge an extra $75 for that to happen, then just do it.  Selling a defensive pistol that does not work can get the wrong person killed, and I would be calling the highest person up the ladder where they make these things and let them know that, nicely if I can, but let them know. 
Having a gun smith have to work on a new pistol because it does not function is not an option for me either, a gunsmith should be used to modify or change something on a brand new piece if you want, not make it function, that is totally unacceptable to me as well.  I'd be telling them to get me one that works or my money back.  I don't agree with breaking in a pistol to make it work either, they can do that at the factory too and pay for the 500 rds of ammo to "break it in so it works".  The only way quality will get better is if we demand it, and take the time to make those calls and write those letters.  I would not think any manufacturer wants things like these posts floating around either, copy and paste some of them and send them in emails so they know how many people are reading it.

Jeeezzz..and to top all this off they scratched it up for you too.  That would make me mad as well.


Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2009, 04:13:45 AM »
To the last few posts:
First off, some of you are almost criticizing ME for how this thing has come out.  I've been posting this stuff just so people know what type of stuff has happened with a given manufacturer's firearm in which no one really has had any previous knowledge.  Heck, I'm really posting all of this stuff for all of you, not for me.  So hey, don't give me your "poop"!  If this is ticking you off as much as or more than it has me, then shovel the "poop" to the manufacturer, don't make me feel like a dummy!  If you'd rather, I'll delete all of these posts and the next poor bastard that wants to buy one of these will go into it blindly.

I really need not explain myself here but to some of you....I bought this thing to use as a plinker.  That is the reason why I've searched for an inexpensive 45.  Yes, it could be used as a defensive weapon but I've already ruled that out on my first trip to the range with it.  I thought, "this thing could get someone killed on the NON-buisiness end."  Regardless, when making your posts you must remember that some of us aren't "loaded" and cannot afford the time or money to just "dump" a gun and spend the extra $$$ on an upgrade.  If I had that kind of money to burn from the start, I would have bought a Colt like I had owned once before.  Sorry, not all of us are lucky enough to afford a high end Kimber or something, OK??
In addition, yes, I am aware that brass gets pounded in an automatic chamber, however, as stated in my post, the brass is now expanding irregularly to the irregular fit of the ream job that the gunsmith did.  On my last trip to the range, I picked up at least 400 additinal pieces of brass off the floor.  NONE of them were oblong and irregularly shaped due to a screwed up chamber.  As for the regular pounding of an atuo loader, NONE of them had huge gashes in the rims beyond the extent of reload-ability.

BGRooster:  Thanks man!!  That's not from me only.  I'm sure that speaking with someone from Metroarms won't fix my current situation directly but I'm sure it will help the next guy down the road.  Thanks a lot, you're the man!!!

Just for the record;  the pistol has been taken back.  The store manager has told me that they will speak to the manufacturer or the distributor and request replacement of the pistol.  If I do not get a complete replacement, then I believe that the store owner will have done me the injustice here.  Thus far they are "middle men" in this.  They bought a product that was supposed to work and unknowing to them or to me, it hasn't.  At this point, if they canot get me a replacement, then I will expect a full refund or at least store credit for me to buy a new gun of another manufacturer.

Thanks to all for the constructive input.

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2009, 08:34:23 AM »
Well, sorry you took the comment on yourownself. Was not ment to be or at you.
I think we all knew what your attempt was.
Mine were aimed at that sorry manufacturer who put this thing together. It should have worked reasonably well when you got it.
If I caused a rise in blood pressure, I hope you will forgive me---I apologize.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline jimster

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2009, 09:18:31 AM »
I apologize too...I was just feeling bad for ya, and kind of mad at manufactures these days...some of them anyway.

Was not directed at you, just remembering a time when something similar happened to me and feeling your pain I guess.

Jim

Offline Blackhawker

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2009, 03:51:10 AM »
No worry guys, I'm not "ticked" at you at all, just the situation.  Nonetheless, as much as one might want to post bad things etc in a situation like this, one must be careful.  I have a friend who ran into some bad things like this with another manufacturer (which will remain unknown here) and the manufacturer told him/her that they would file suit for slander if he/she wrote anything bad.  With that, all I have done is stated what has happened so far with my pistol and nothing more.  I didn't post any of it with malicious intentions but with only intentions to let some of the group here know about what one might expect if purchasing this pistol or any other pistol for that matter.  As stated before, I've heard nothing but good about American Classics in the past, but it looks like there have been a few or more with some problems.  If nothing else, this lets everyone else know what to expect from different manufacturers etc.

What I tend to dislike is when a magazine or review group does a review on a product. (Guns and Ammo, Car and Driver, etc)  Did you ever notice that none of them ever really report things as they are?  Nope, it's always a good report; "this thing is great!", "I'd buy one myself", "for the price, it can't be beat!".  You never hear anyone on a review say, "this thing is a piece of crap!" or "If you buy this product, you might as well just take your money and put it in your fireplace for extra heating this winter" or something like that. 
I believe it is forums like this that allow us to know what's really up with a product and the do's and don'ts of how to go about getting one fixed or repaired without major hassles.  So, that's why I've offered up my story to you all. 

Once again, I thank all of you for your constructive advice etc.  ALL of what has been written has been helpful to me.
Thanks!

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2009, 03:44:17 PM »
On one of the other threads, a member comented that Gun Test had a high number of guns they don't like.  They buy the tests guns over the counter like we do.  I have a friend whom is a gun tester, he has many great guns.  I asked him how he could afford it and he said with a really good review he could get it at half price.  Maybe he was pulling my leg and maybe he wasn't.  Skeeter Skelton wrote how Smith & Wesson made him a revolver and when he asked how much the rep said one silver dollar.  Must be nice. 8)
NRA Life Member, Retired Air Force, Grandfather:   RIA 38 Super, , Vaquaro .357, Golden Boy 39A .22,  54cal GPR, 54 cal Lyman plains pistol, 45 cal Kentucky Rifle perc, 50 cal traditions Hawken Woodsman

Offline Mikey

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2009, 02:11:33 AM »
BlackHawker - I too would recommend Gun Tests Magazine as they tell it just like it is and let you know why they would or would not purchase a particular firearm. 

I recall you stating you would purchased the pistol for plinking and the like, but the darn thing should work properly right out the door and the bs that came your way regarding a off-sized barrel chamber and that extractor damage to the brass should have instead resulted in your having your pistol replaced by the dealer, without question. 

"You never hear anyone on a review say, "this thing is a piece of crap!" or "If you buy this product, you might as well just take your money and put it in your fireplace for extra heating this winter" or something like that".  Gun Tests Magazine calls it like it is.

And nobody here intentionally jumps on you for machinery related failures.  I seriously doubt many of us here have the $ to just dump one piece of equipment for another when they foul up as your 1911 has but it is the recommendation to do so out of concern for one of us who does not have the kind of working piece we would all like to have.

I am glad the dealer will stand to his name and try to either replace the pistol or refund your $.  I am still 'ticked' at the notion of a interchangeable barrel needing a re-chambering and ignoring the cause of the damage to your brass. 

I can remember sitting with my company armorer working over the 1911s in my inventory, pulling parts and tossing them when pistols would not function.  Back then, replacement barrels for 1911s were less than $20 through the mail and extractors were under one dollar.  Prices are slightly higher these days but no so much higher that those parts should not have been immediately replaced.  Let's see what the dealer can do for you.   

Offline rawhidekid

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Re: Metroarms American Classic 2 Range Report
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2009, 06:08:20 AM »
As Mikey said, most of us can't afford to just dump a gun that doesn't work right.  From my own experiance, when I have traded up I usually get 1/2 the value of the gun.  If you are lucky enough to have a gun show in town you can sell it outright for about 3/4 what you paid as long as you don't mind sticking someone else.  I uaually trade so the next owner will hopefully get warranty work from the dealer, most heve a 30 day warranty on used guns.  Evan better if the dealer is the one I bought it from, although if they no it is a dud they wont trade. 8)
NRA Life Member, Retired Air Force, Grandfather:   RIA 38 Super, , Vaquaro .357, Golden Boy 39A .22,  54cal GPR, 54 cal Lyman plains pistol, 45 cal Kentucky Rifle perc, 50 cal traditions Hawken Woodsman