my crimp is pushing my bullets too deep?

[Badge54]

I have been trying to load a .44 lead bullet.  I have 250 and 280 grain bullets that don't want to co-operate.  I have had no trouble loading the 240 grain jacketed with the same set up. The problem is; as I try to seat the bullet the crimping ring in the die seems to be forcing the bullet in before the plunger even touches.  I have tried taking the bullet seater / plunger out of the die and trying without. no luck.  All this with a dummy load, no powder.

I have a single stage press and Lee dies for the .44special/ Mag.

Maybe with some 2400 in the case the bullet won't get pushed in?

Any ideas? 

Badge54

[SHOOTALL]

What size expander does the lee die have ? if it is bigger than your bullet the bullet will fall into the case .

[bilmac]

I don't know why a seating die should push the bullet down independent of the plug. Maybe it is dirty? But to do a quality seating job you need to use a die to seat the bullet and another to do the crimp. That way the bullet isn't moving at the same time the crimp is being applied. Could use the same die adjusted to do just one job at a time.

[Badge54]

I have tried the die without the plunger/seater in the die.  The bullets push down into the case.  These are both wide frontal type bullets and are sized .430. 

After pushing the bullet too far I have to use the bullet puller (hammer) to pull the bullet.  Once done there is a noticeable ring from the inside of the crimp die above the groove on the bullet.

Bullets measure .430. Expander die is .429 and tapers up to .434.  I tried setting it as shallow as possible.  Cleaned the die. pulled the plug out of the seating die and the crimp ring inside the die pushed the sides of the bullet before it got to the case, pushing the bullet deeper.

Do I need a separate crimp die for the heavier bullets? 

Badge54

[SHOOTALL]

I load up to 300 gr bullets with a set of redding dies and use a profile crimp die as a 4th operation . If your die is clean and not a bad die you may need a new set of dies . Try Redding .
How do you clean your dies ? I use brake cleaner .

[wncchester]

Well, if your bullets are being seated with no seating plug it sounds like your bullet diameters are too large for the die throat.

[securitysix]

Do you have the 3 die or 4 die set from Lee?  Either way, back your seating die up so that the crimp portion of the die is out of the way.  Run the seating plunger in however far you need to in order to seat the bullets.  If it's a 4 die set, crimp with the Factory Crimp Die that came with it.  If it's the 3 die set, back the seating plunger way out so it doesn't come into contact with the bullet and crimp with the seating die as a separate operation.

Also, if it is actually the crimping portion of the die that is pushing the bullet down, I wonder if the WFN design you're using isn't a little too wide, especially if it's still seating bullets with the seating plunger removed from the die completely.  It may not give a problem with the 240s because they're shorter than the 280 grain bullets (speculation on my part).  That said, if you were able to seat and crimp the 240 grain bullets properly and are having problems with the 280 grain bullets, I'd wonder at the bullets before I'd blame the die.  Do you have the same problem with 280 grain bullets of a different shape?

[Lloyd Smale]

sounds to me like you may be trying to crimp to much.

[stimpylu32]

I have tried the die without the plunger/seater in the die.  The bullets push down into the case.  These are both wide frontal type bullets and are sized .430. 

After pushing the bullet too far I have to use the bullet puller (hammer) to pull the bullet.  Once done there is a noticeable ring from the inside of the crimp die above the groove on the bullet.

Bullets measure .430. Expander die is .429 and tapers up to .434.  I tried setting it as shallow as possible.  Cleaned the die. pulled the plug out of the seating die and the crimp ring inside the die pushed the sides of the bullet before it got to the case, pushing the bullet deeper.

Do I need a separate crimp die for the heavier bullets? 

Badge54

Badger54

The bullets your trying to use are just too long for your die set-up , what your going to have to do is seat the bullet with one die and then use a seprate crimping die -- like the Lee factory crimp die or one of the other profile crimp type dies .

The Lee dies work Ok for most types of bullets , but once you get into the long or heavy for cal bullets they just don't work as well as they should  . 

stimpy

[Badge54]

The new seating die sounds like the solution...  Thanks to all.

Not over crimping,  The crimp portion is leaving a scrape mark in the lead on the outside of the bullet above the crimp groove.  It never gets to the case mouth to crimp.

I'll have to order the Lee factory crimp die.

Badge54

[huntducks]

Buy a set of RCBS dies I don't care for any of lee dies except there collet and crimp die.

[Badge54]

I'm trying to find a crimp die but getting confused.

What is the difference between a Taper crimp, and a profile crimp?  When loading the .44 I thought I wanted a roll crimp.

Badge54

edit...I knew this... Taper is for Semi auto and revolver loads should be roll crimped... 

Still, what is a Profile crimp?

I am loading these for a Contender single shot.  I understand I need the heavy crimp but still not sure which crimp die to go with.

[SHOOTALL]

Check out Redding for a profile crimp die .I use the profile crimp on revolvers to get a consitent crimp for accuracy . It can be set to touch the front of the crimp grove keeping bullet set back nonexistant making shot to shot accuracy more consistant . I learned this shooting IMHSA years ago and still use it . A roll crimp can allow some set back as it is difficult to roll and be tight to the front of the groove . This can lead to accuracy loss at longer distances . For a single shot gun you really don't need a crimp it won't hurt if done right but as the bullets are not subject to set back like ones in a cyl are they serve to do more than build pressure higher before the bullet starts to move .

[Steve P]

Screw up your seating die about 3 turns so crimp ring is above bullet height.  Screw seating stem down and use this die to seat your bullet only.  Get a Lee factory crimp die or a Redding Profile crimp die (taper and roll combined).  Do not seat bullets and crimp in same operation.  This would be similar to closing garage door as you drive the car in.  ouch!


FWIW, most of my dies came in green boxes.  I do have some red box dies......from Hornady and one or two from Lee because of price.....but most other 90% came in green boxes.

Steve

[tc scout]

I have never loaded lead bullets before, so I may be out of line here.

But to me it sounds like the crimp groove is hitting the bullet before it even gets to the brass.

Maybe over size bullets ?