45-70 with fffg

[patw]

Here is the situation.  A friend of mine told me he had a couple of old gun stashed away and wanted to clean them up and shoot them.  One was a rolling block, probably 43 Spanish.  The other was an original Burnside, and other than surface rust that cleaned up easily, in great shape, with most of the barrel still bright and shiny.  He got fired up about it and ordered some casings and a bullet mold, and he is going to try it out this week end, when a couple of us were going to go out and shoot trapdoors and rolling blocks.

I have a can of Hodgdon black powder, fffG, that has been sitting on my shelf for years.  A friend had bought a building that belonged to a gunsmith, and when he was cleaning it out found that and other cans of powder.  I have no idea how old the powder is.  It is in a red metal can with a paper label, and on the back it says that it was made in Scotland.  It is unopened.

Sooooo....  I got the bright idea that I would like to load some of it to shoot in the trapdoor.  Any problems with using it?  I have never shot BP before.  I have bullets ranging from 350 to 500 grains.  If it is ok to use, how much, what bullets etc.....

[Dances with Geoducks]

The only load I have listed in my SPG BP reloading book is:
Lyman 457193 420gr cast
75gr FFFg
This is a Sharpes load for a long barrel

All other references are with ffg, which is what I use

I dont know how much you know about loading BP cartridges, its a whole different world.

With 300-350 gr bullets you could start at 40gr and work up to 50gr. (weighed)

You will need to drop tube the powder, then compress it (might get away with a stick or rod and compress it that way)
You will need a veggie (or milk carton) wad. Because you have to fill the case with something, so there is no air between the powder and the bullet.

Some folk use grease cookies between the wad and bullet. I use dacron pillow filler.

When you weigh black powder it is by volume, not scale weight.

I can tell you that 70gr by volume is 52gr weighed with ffg. This is the load I use for my 390gr RN cast.
I used it with Hornady 300 jacketed and 350 PP with very good results.

Bring a coffee can with you half full of soapy water to drop the cases in after your fire them.

Everyone recommends CCI magnum primers, I happen to have a brick, so I use them in all my 45-70 loads.

BTW I have used black powder from the 50s-70s until I ran out. If its still flakes and not clumped, its GTG

You are about to step into a larger world. Prepare to get hooked

[patw]

Thanks, I knew nothing about black powder cartridges.  I loaded up a few of them, can't wait to try them.

[Birddog 1]

Hi patw if you are using cast bullets you need to lube the bullets with a BP lube and remember no air between the powder and bullet and if you are using a jacket bullet I beleave you should use a lubed felt wad or a cookie not shure I only shoot lubed lead bullets and use a blow tube. Well have fun and be safe.

Nim

[patw]

We had a blast.  My friend has only ten cases for his Burnside.  He would shoot them, go back to the tailgate, reload, and start all over.  He shot either 40 or 50 rounds through it. He is so fired up he went home and ordered a couple hundred bucks worth of reloading equipment that evening.  He is ready to go again.

I must admit I had a great time shooting BP in the 45-70.  We had burned up some rounds of smokeless before shooting the smoky stuff.  I had not thought of the lube.  I used  the same panlube: paraffin, beeswax and vaseline.  I had some windex and I cleaned the barrel every couple of shots during the shoot, and gave it a real good cleaning  when I got home.  I was amazed how dirty the brass got.  I dropped each shot cartridge in soapy water, and at the end started to empty the bottle before I realized I had not more water.  The brass was VERY dirty by the time I got home, but after a couple of hours in the tumbler they are good to go again.  I am ready to do it again too.

I tried to take some pictures, but my cell phone is smarter than I am, and I was taking videos when I thought I was taking stills.  Fun to watch but can't post.  I will take pictures of the next shoot, especially the Burnside.  That is one neat rifle.

[John Boy]

Burnside:
Length Overall:   56 inches     Bore:   0.54 inches     Weight:   9 pounds
Ammunition Used:   Special Burnside design, cone shaped metallic cartridge. Usual load 65 grains powder behind 500 grain bullet.
(Probably Fg powder)
Loading data - 433 Spanish:  http://www.goexpowder.com/images/LoadCharts/Cartridge-Rifle.pdf

[8iowa]

I have shot and chonographed the Burnside carbine, the weapon carried by my great-grandfather during the Atlanta campaign (not his original carbine - don't I wish!)

I purchased cases, cast bullets, and a mold from Dixie Gun Works. The original cartridge had 45 grains of black powder tamped down in place under a card. Tallow filled the space under the 380 grain 54 caliber bullet. I duplicated this load using a dime sized card cut out of notebook cardboard, Instead of tallow, I used Crisco, and hand seated the bullets, which then chonographed 980 fps, duplicating the original cartridge's velocity. The gas seal was quite good, a problem with many breach loaders of the period.

The Burnside is a sturdy carbine, and one in good condition is not too difficult to find. Before shooting, check the nipple in the breach to make sure that the threads are tight and not rusted. Last month, at the Baltimore Antique Gun Show Burnside carbines were plentiful and priced in the $1800 to $4500 range, depending on condition.

[RMulhern]

Load your powder BY WEIGHT! Load 70 grs. and it should be compressed enough (using a compression stem in your expander die) to seat an OPW aka Over Powder Wad atop the powder and with your bullet base down upon the OPW such that the OAL will chamber! Goex FF or Swiss FFF will work just fine! I prefer FFF for all my loads with a .45/70! Bullets should be lubed with a BLACKPOWDER LUBE sufficient to fill all lube grooves! And for best accuracy you should be wiping after each shot. Wipe with 2 damp patches of NAPA water soluble oil mixed 1 part to 5 with water and then use one dry patch for a finish wipe! If not wiping you can use a blowtube!!

For best results....it would be best for you to do a whole lot of reading to assist with shooting blackpowder!!