Making Field Cannon Carriage Wheels.

[carronader]

Is anyone interested in having a go at making wheels ?  Say up to about Golf Ball Calibre size, that should keep it within budget , Tooling ( or lack of it ) , Skill levels ...blah blah of most folks. That's making , or asking relevant questions if  thinking of trying to make , or watching a bunch of idiots trying to remove their fingers with sharp instruments. Sometimes you can be put off on this forum by the high level of skill shown by some members , this one would be for anybody dumb enough to want to try. I am that dumb and have been quietly working away at drawings , cutting wood , trashing wood , trashing drawings , using bad language but still have all my fingers . So if you have unfinished wheels laying around , cannot afford store bought or just want to have a go and show how dumb you are then put a reply.I will start it off by showing some drawings , mistakes , etc. 
 DD has shown a good example of having a go at something , didn't work out but at least he tried it. Wheels are tricky but I would fight for the first ' Golden Gopher ' award for a full , carriage build , progress reported on the forum..........I got the perfect bribe stashed away.  But first start it with the wheels.

[GGaskill]

Go for it.  Presumably you are talking about making wheels of the US Civil War period and earlier, not the later ones with metal hubs, etc.

[carronader]

Wheels           non specific Round things        any wheel ,any period , if not quoted as type , date , country of origin then hopefully will encourage more people to give it a shot. And no need to answer irrelevant , nitpicking questions from " experts " .

[Max Caliber]

Carronader, Go for it. That should be of much interest to a lot of people. I have thought that the reason for all the mortars and truck carriages is that they don't require wooden spoke wheels. I have made a wheel or two and have some pictures of the construction of a wooden wheelborrow wheel I made recently that may be of interest.

[Zulu]

click on this to see this same subject already discussed.  Some good information here.
Zulu

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,187300.msg1098929325.html#msg1098929325

[carronader]

Max  looking for contributions   pics of making   people doing  sharpen your pencil   get the first aid kit out  and join in.     and do a final count on your fingers.   wheelbarrow wheel is ok unless the Montana Mauler jumps on it   good start on general wheel build in my eyes    I'm not good enough to run a tutorial  but am willing to show my efforts.  good or bad.  I will help with drawings for serious attempts but this is not  a 'how to'   more a  ' let's have a go at '    will post pics tomorrow if enough interest is shown.

[carronader]

a perfect link zulu.............exactly what I intend to avoid. You will see here lots of talk........dumb questions....false information...........more talk...........only practical work pics coming from DD    more questions.....I was just as guilty............little bit more about drawings............where are the makers ? 

[RocklockI]

I'll watch , is this a group build ?

[Double D]

Sometimes you can be put off on this forum by the high level of skill shown by some members

Now you just wait a  minute, who you calling high level!!!!

DD has shown a good example of having a go at something , didn't work out but at least he tried it.  

Oh you didn't mean me!  

[carronader]

I blame you for this DD    shamed me into it     at least if there's no interest I can get back in my box 
  I hope it will be a group build Gary     I would prefer keeping quiet until I got something finished to show  but there's too much talk on here and too much relying on same people to make stuff.

[Double D]

Start posting Tom...believe me when I say my stuff will stand up to internet inspection, but I won't let you get close in person...I'll bet the guys who saw my stuff when they were here last summer are still snickering...doesn't matter to me what they think.  My guns shoot and I enjoy them.

[dan610324]

I wish I could contribute here ,
but the most advanced wheel I could build is just that stone age wheel  
so I will soak up all info here like a sponge

if I would try now I would probably come up with one wheel with 2 hubs , 15 felloes , 11 spokes and 3 rims
or at least something similar
probably also different angle on all the spokes

but Im sure it would be a very interesting wheel  

[seacoastartillery]

     I'm afraid we are in the same situation as Dan.  No experience and very little knowledge of wheels, but we are ready and willing to learn.  If someone could answer one question we have always had about 'Dish', we would be grateful.  We know Dish is designed into artillery wheels so they have greater strength and can stand terrific loads when the carriage goes around a sharp corner at speed, but exactly was causes the Dish?  Is it the shape of the felloes or a bend or two in the spokes?  What exactly causes the artillery wheel to angle outward at it's extremities? 

Mike and Tracy

[Double D]

The holes in the hub and felo are drilled and mortised on an angle, spokes are straight. 

[GGaskill]

And the ends of the axles are tapered and angled such that the bottom of the taper is horizontal, which makes the wheels tilt so the bottom spokes are vertical.  This prevents there being a moment between the felloes and the nave and working of the spokes while the wheel rotates.

[Double D]

I know it as a fact but several of our Master Carpenters here have detailed instructions on how to make wheels...I don't understand why they haven't stepped up and demonstrated for us...one in particular makes the comments in private he doesn't  want you guys to laugh at him.  The he sends me pictures of stuff you only see in museums and say he's working on some sort of secret project.   If anybody's work is going to draw laughter, it's mine.

I have drawings and instruction for making wheels, I have a standing offer to share those drawings.  

I am more intimidated by making hardware than wheels.

I don't have a field gun in my line of future projects but may have to add one just to make some wheels.

  

[Div Arty]

Well gentlemen, you want wheels?  Lets get started.  I have begun a 1/2 scale No. 1 field carriage.  I wanted to complete the project and offer a photo build, but since this thread has started maybe we can all learn something.  I started with the wheels.  Not finished, but started.   The spokes are where I paused, or maybe the word is hiatus.  Anyway here is what I have done so far. 
The first three shots are of the jig I made to cut the 25.7 deg. angles on the felloes.







Getting late so I'll continue tomorrow.      Ron

[carronader]

Perfect timing Div     Already getting quotes from books.........should be / would be / can be    My uncle from Kansas says         go away     pics........alternative drawings...........bits of wood............blood on saw blades           you want to talk wheels............go open another thread.   you had your chance DD and managed to keep some credibility   allow me ( us hopefully ) to totally blow mine ( ours ) go chew on a newbie.
 
 

[carronader]

Ok Div has started with the felloes , and he's using a table saw with a home made jig. I started cutting by hand and now using Bandsaw with a home made jig. He's cutting at 25.7   I'm doing 30 degrees to suit the wheel I want. Forget the ' but uncle Fergus says '  or that book says , this is making wheels that work. My pics ( hopefully ) will show I'm not a total moron . I have been all over the place / books / bought plans / other forums / museums / internet and I've seen mistakes , bad advice , big opinions in all of them , to me , best way to learn is get off your butt and do it.   

[Cat Whisperer]

Cool !

Pictures of the jig?    (for the 30d angles)

Assume the round thing is a bandsaw jig with some form of bearing for cutting the circle?

[Zulu]

The holes in the hub and felo are drilled and mortised on an angle, spokes are straight. 

DD,
The above is an optional way to put the cant in the wheel.
Mordicai's drawing shows the felloe drilled straight and the spoke cants on an angle.
Trying to figure out how to best cant a wheel has been an obstacle to me for some time.  I follow this thread with interest.
Zulu

[Zulu]

Just an option for everyone to consider.  When I made the felloes for this wheel, I had a friend with a cad machine that drew a single felloe for a seven segment, 36" diameter wheel.  He drew it to the scale I needed.  I cut it out, traced it on my wood and cut it with a band saw.  No jig needed.  It worked well with a tight fit.
Zulu

[carronader]

Cat, patience man patience , but you being a more sophisticated , genteel , esteemed even , moderator than the man from Montana  I shall explain. It's a backing plate for mounting in a wood lathe , removal of material for the use of     this will be shown fully as we go on.   pics of jig to come with full and hopefully understandable reason I made it / use it.   I love seeing jigs people make ....shows how many ways there are of doing the same job in different ways. Maybe why I hate it so much when some say ' this is how you do it '    or referring to one source as some kind of oracle. 

[Double D]

Woo hoo, challenge them, shame them, pass out bad information...that will smoke them out every time!!!

[carronader]

The reason I posted those pics is to show that no matter how much research you do , time and effort you put into it , you can still blow it . I trashed all of what's in those pics.......drawings......wood..........system. Combination of mistakes I made , choices of materials , tools used , and relying on a specific drawing. That's why this thread could help to make a wheel  ......if people come in with their experiences , mistakes and mess ups. Crap glue made me look at the felloes joint differently , pure waste of good oak made me look at design of template the rim was coming out of , angle of cut in felloes   is it really that important ?  why ? Ill post my solution.........you don't like it.......too bad. if it helps 1 other person on here then it's worth the post.

[Max Caliber]

Here is a drawing showing the way spokes are fitted to the hub and felloes. The left side of the hub (inside of the wheel) mortise is cut at an angle of 90 degrees to the centerline of the hub and the right side is cut at the angle of dish, say 5 degrees. The right side of the spoke is straight all the way through to the end of the tenon and the left side is cut at the angle of dish. The spoke tenon is a little shorter than the hub mortise is deep so it can be wedged into the mortise. The spoke tenon is fitted to the hub by reversing the tenon to the mortise - the straight side of the spoke goes on the angled side on the mortise- in the hub giving the dish angle to the wheel.

The spoke tenon that fits into the felloes is turned at the angle of dish so it can go into the felloes straight. The tenon must be turned starting at an offset so the tenon is centered on the spoke where it joins the shoulder of the spoke.

[carronader]

I beat all of my felloes drawings down to one . Someone posted a clock face index , as I'm doing a 12 spoke / 6 felloe wheel it was a good help. print the index on squared paper ( you can print out free 5mm square from internet ) so you got squared paper with a clock face. Lay your cut out wheel rim on it. find the centre of your rim ( circle ) draw out lines at 2 o'clock  4 o'clock  6 o'clock etc.  from your centre. Now you can decide how much wood to waste by deciding how wide you want to make your felloes template. You gonna cut your rim on a bandsaw ? - turn it on a wood lathe - attack it with an axe   you get to choose , not plans , pic , ' expert '. not everybody got access to loads of wood ' or if you're using expensive stuff.I hope pic below shows enough.

[carronader]

forgot the damn pic

[Div Arty]

Should have added that on the jig, the stocks first angle is cut on the left side of the jig.  Then pushed over to the right side against a stop, where the second angle is cut and at the correct length.
Max gives a good pix of the spoke.  My big problem is getting the felloe tenon cut at the 6 deg. off set.

[carronader]

Who says you need to use a tenon Div ?  drawing ?