Reloading for the 460 S&W Mag - Encore pistol-questions and experiances.

[lastchanc54]

I recently took on the task of reloading for and shooting the 460 S&W magnum in a 15 inch encore with iron sights. I started with some 200 grain bullets and H110 powder. I had heard that I should use magnum rifle primers due to the high operating pressures of this round. I had already loaded 20 rounds of ammo using large magnum pistol primers. I made 30 more rounds using large magnum rifle primers. Next, my 300 grain Hornaday XTP bullets arrived so I loaded 5 of them.
I finally got to go to the range. I was aprehensive about the recoil of this weapon so I shot the first two rounds off hand. No pain but it did drive me back a couple of steps. I am 6'2'' and 285 lbs so I was surpised at the amount of push of this round.
The fourth round went poof!! When I opened my chamber, lumps of melted H110 powder fell out and my bullet was lodged just in the rifling. I left the range and went to a freinds who took a brass rod and tapped the bullet out. I then remebered having the same problem with a 45 LC, many years ago.
I went back to the range and selected the rounds with the large pistol primers, they all fired. Next, I selected the 300 grain loads, with H110 and not only did they fire (omg) but all powder burned clean, unlike the 200 grain bullets that left unburnt powder in the chamber and made extraction of the cases difficult at times.
Finally I began fireing the 200 grain loads with magnum rifle primers and soon I got another poof-faliure to ignite. I took the firearm home and used a brass cleaning rod to tap out the bullet.
Yes, I did us a heavy roll clrimp. Please share your experiances and favorite loads & bullets.
Thank you.  

[Grumulkin]

1.  If all the powder isn't burning and you're getting bullets stuck in the bore, your loads are too light.

2.  You don't need to, but can, use large rifle magnum primers.  Large rifle primers are just as suitable and may give better accuracy.  The primer is not the reason your powder isn't burning well.

3.  You don't need to crimp for straight walled cased cartridges to be shot in the Encore or Contender.  In my experience, crimping in this situation doesn't help anything.

[lastchanc54]

Grumulkin, thank you for your reply. The Lyman book on handgun reloading suggested a strong roll crimp to hold the bullet tight while all the poweder ignited. That was my only source of information on crimping.
My reloads are only 1 grain under maximun. I got my loading data online because my manuals did not show a 200 grain jacketed bullet for the 460.
My 300's all went off and burnt clean.
I do have some 250 grain flex tips from Hornaday.  I am using a Federal large magnum pistol primer , 36.5 grains of H110 with a fps rating of 2000 + at the muzzle. I am making 10 of them to try out. I will post the results.
Anyone else out there reloading for the 460 mag?  At $3.00 per round retail (and more) I am guessing a lot of people are rolling their own. Share your experiances, thanks!

[Keith L]

I don't know where on the web you get your reloading advice, but I don't load anything I can't find in the books.  "They" may not have a load listed like the one you had trouble with because it causes trouble.

[lastchanc54]

Keith L, thank you for posting. I often use the Hodgens, IMR site to find or confirm loading Data. I have used them for years with no ill effects. What I have found is that it can be important to know what test gun is used. I like the Lyman Handgun book becuase it has a section for the Encore pistols. I can target the loads to my gun and my needs. The IMR site seems to start with a little more powder in the case. With a 460 Magnum, it would seem good to start a little light since the recoil is so severe. A revolver is going to bleed off some gas out of the cylinder gap but there is no loss in a single shot, you get everything. Aslo, the wheel guns rotate more in your hand and the Encore comes straight back before the muzzle lifts-ouch!!
Thanks again for weighing in, I look forward to hearing from other shooters who use and or reload for the 460. Lastchanc54

[Grumulkin]

If you look at various load manuals for 460 S&W data, you will become confused.  The reason is that some manuals limited the load because their bullet won't hold up to the velocity the 460 S&W Magnum is capable of.  In other cases, it's because they want easy ejection from revolvers which are obviously different than the Encore.

This 200 yard group shot with my Encore 460 S&W Magnum handgun measured about 1.5 inches.  When plugged into Quick Load, pressure approached the SAMI maximum for this cartridge.  Muzzle velocity is about 2,350 fps.

The load also works on Zebra and other stuff.

[lastchanc54]

Grumulkin , those are some amazing groups!! I had no idea that it was possible to group so tight at 200 yds. Are you using a scope and if so, which one?  Next question, your overall seating apears to be much longer than the 2.20 the book suggest. How long are your loads. It appears that you are shortening the jump from the chamber to the lands. Nice Zebra too!
I decided to tame the recoil a bit by adding some weight. I just ordered a heavy scope base with three ring mount and a Weaver 2 x pistol scope.
Thank you for posting.

[Grumulkin]

For my heavy hitters, I use Leupold's 2.5-8X handgun scopes in SSK Industries' T'SOB rings (I use 4 rings) on their 6 screw base.

The bullets for my Encore are seated much longer than they can be for a revolver; they're seated about halfway to the ogive to get the bullet closer to the lands.

[lastchanc54]

Your success inspires me to reach for better results with my set up. Now that I now what is possible, I shall seek to achieve it. When I started this topic, I was hoping for some real information that I could apply to my set up. I had hoped that many shooters would log in and share their stories, their loads and setups. I still do, but let me say this, seeing your groups, listing to your words and seeing some big game that you have taken has provided me with the information and inspiration that I need to continue and enjoy my quest to maximize my experience with the 460 S&W magnum. If this was my only post on Greybeard, it would have been worth it. Grumulkin, Thank you for your help and inspiration. It is people like you that make this forum really work.

Lastchanc54

[lastchanc54]

Ok, I am back from the range, again. This time I shot some 250 grain Hornaday FTX bullets and some 250 Flex Tips. I used a load of 38 grains of H4227 and a large magnum rifle primer. This load was accurate and fairly moderate on the recoil. It shot spot on at 100 yds and only dropped 17 inches at 200 yds. My three shot group was 2.75 tall and one inch wide. Due to the limited 2x Weaver, it is hard to see small targets at that distance. I can tell that this load will shoot better than I can see or hold at this time. 
I also shot some starting loads of 2400, using 31 grains. The loads were light but accurate. They also shot the same point of aim as the heavier loads of 4227.  Things changed a lot when I put in in some rounds made with 37 grains of 2400. First of all, they were not comfortable to shoot due to increased recoil. They also shot much lower on the target!! I don't know why this happens. I only had 10 of these rounds and I was glad to be done with them. I was starting to flatten out the primers.
To conclude the day, I went to the 25 yard range and shot the center out of a three inch target. Next I went to 50 yards and I shot high in the three inch sticky dot target but put them all in a good group. It seems that from 25 to 100 yards, the 250 grain load with 4227 shoots extremely flat. No hold over or under until you get past 100 yards. I can live with 17 inches of drop at 200 yards. I am still experimenting but I would like to hear from others and see what your results are like. 

[HHI-7420]

lastchanc54, I hope you shot some loads between 31gr. and 37gr. before jumping on the 37gr. load. If not, then maybe you should change your handle to LASTchance.  Pat   

[Grumulkin]

Things changed a lot when I put in in some rounds made with 37 grains of 2400. First of all, they were not comfortable to shoot due to increased recoil. They also shot much lower on the target!!

With handguns, usually hotter loads will shoot lower because the bullet is going faster and departing the barrel earlier in the recoil cycle.

[lastchanc54]

Hey Pat, thanks for the humor! I have been handloading since the early 80's and rarely make mistakes. According to an unamed source, there is still some room before reaching the maximum load. Having said that, let me say this to all who are reading this blog. The 460 is a round that in my experiance, should be worked up slowly. After shooting some 37 grain loads, I doubt that many of you will want to and I don't recomend it. Your case life will decrease and this may be too much powder for your indivdual bullet. It kicks hard and is not much fun to shoot. I am backing mine down so I can enjoy my gun. Right now, the recoil is so strong that I won't let anyone else shoot it.
I did work up a nice load of 4227 at 1938 fps that is not unpleasnt to shoot, extreemely accurate and should kill anything I can find to hunt here in North America. Once I start adding powder, the chamber pressures and recoil climb quickly. Think I will stay here for a while.
Luck to all, Lastchanc54

[HHI-7420]

lastchance, I've been reloading since 1958, and I don't make any mistakes either(except leaving out the powder a couple of times)    . I'm downloading this year too. All of my deer/turkey kills are within 50yds. Pretty easy to do with a 44mag..  Pat

[lastchanc54]

Now Pat, I think I said I try not to make mistakes. That said, I did end up pulling bullets out of 40 rounds of 460's recently.   I have a 44 super blackhawk, 7 &1/2 inch with a scope on it. It is remarkably accurate and modest on the recoil. I can take small game to 100 yards with ease. I also have a Encore 44 pistol that is remarkably accurate too. The revolver is lighter and easier to carry plus follow up shots are fast and simple. Not sure why I got an encore 44 barrel and put a scope on it? I guess I got the fever. Now it is hard to figure out which encore barrel to use for hunting. If I did not handload, my choices would be few. I gathered lots of brass in many calibers and just the other day, a friend gave me about 60 lbs of once fired cases in several calibers. I like spending time in the winter reloading my empites and tryig out new loads. Now I am consumed with this 460 magnum. Guess I will have to plan a bear hunt in open country. If I don't hit it, maybe I can just scare it to death. 

[quickdtoo]

If you look at various load manuals for 460 S&W data, you will become confused.  The reason is that some manuals limited the load because their bullet won't hold up to the velocity the 460 S&W Magnum is capable of.  In other cases, it's because they want easy ejection from revolvers which are obviously different than the Encore.

This 200 yard group shot with my Encore 460 S&W Magnum handgun measured about 1.5 inches.  When plugged into Quick Load, pressure approached the SAMI maximum for this cartridge.  Muzzle velocity is about 2,350 fps.

The load also works on Zebra and other stuff.