Deluxe 45-70 Handi Muzzleloader Conversion w Range report

[Slufoot]

I've been asked by several about my conversions so I thought it was time to share. This one I just finished for my dad for a Christmas present, he doesn't have a PC so ya'll better not tell. The barrel is a 45-70 that I got from Gendoc (thanks), I had to fit it to this frame by taking .007" off the breechface it now locks up perfect. The frame is an SB1 large firing pin  from a Versa-Pac that I bought used locally and the stock I robbed from my 30-06. I know my dad likes wood better than plastic and this gives me a good excuse with the wife to get a Handi-Grip stock set for the '06. The breechplug is from Savage and it uses the new Hex head design that allows a 3/8" socket to install and remove, much more user friendly than the old spanner type Savage plugs. The sharp edge of the crown has been lapped with a piece of brass and some Fine Clovers lapping compound, this lets you start sabots without shaving plastic. The ramrod thimble on this one is a little fancier than what I usually do because it's for dad, instead of the standard ring I usually do this one is longer and tapered kind of barrel shaped. The BIG difference on this one and the reason I called it Deluxe is because a made a forearm attachment stud that allows a full length ramrod! I handcut a dovetail into the bottom of the barrel and then made the stud with a hacksaw and files, this took me a very long time. Whenever I can save up enough to get a milling machine then I will be able to do more of these but until then I'll have to make the collapsable ramrods. The ramrod is made from a carbon arrow with a woodgrain finsh and I turned the brass loading jag to accept SST bullets, it will work just fine with regular pistol bullets also. The sling was made by a good friend of mine, he needed a horse carriage axle turned out and being as he's a great leather craftsman we traded out work, now you know where I got my handle from. The scope is an old steel tube Weaver K4-1 that I traded for years ago, I put it on an old T/C Thunderhawk and let dad use it and he said that was his favorite scope he had ever used, so that's why the old scope is on his new muzzleloader.

I have tried for 2 hours to post pics on this slow dial up connection, I'll try again tomorrow.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[quickdtoo]

Awesome, if you can email the pic to me, I'll post it. 

Tim

[Spanky]

I would love to see the pics. Sounds like a real beauty... your Dad is a lucky man for sure.



Spanky

[Slufoot]

Awesome, if you can email the pic to me, I'll post it. 

Tim

Thanks Tim, I went to your profile but didn't see your e-mail address. If you'll PM it to me I'll send the Pics to you.

Thanks!
Slufoot

[quickdtoo]

I sent you an email already, you can just send it as a reply. 

Tim

[bikerbeans]

Slufoot,

You dad is a lucky man!  Can you post or PM your bullet and load data?

thanks

BB

[petemi]

I think it is wonderful you have so much love and respect for your dad.  Wishing you all the very best for the Holidays,

Pete

[Slufoot]

I finally got a couple pics e-mailed to Tim in the wee hours of the morning, Tim you're a life saver!

You dad is a lucky man!  Can you post or PM your bullet and load data?

Thanks BB, How about a range report! I really hope I can get it dialed in before Christmas, that way dad will be ready to make meat with it!

I think it is wonderful you have so much love and respect for your dad.  Wishing you all the very best for the Holidays,
Pete

Thanks Pete, I think I have a wonderful dad!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[quickdtoo]

Pics added, that truly is some fine craftsmanship!!

Merry Christmas to you and Dad and the entire family!!

Tim

[mo.hillbilly]

thats a great lookin handi. and a your a good son for lookin out for your dad. thats a real good idea the way you made a thimble forarm lug combo. those collaspible rods ain't the best, but it sounds like you may have fixed that problem too. make your own. i'd like to see one of yours i've got an old huntsman that i don't use much cause it's hard to load.  again, good job and Merry Christmas

[burntmuch]

So what sabot -bullet combo are you gunna use with this. Awesome gun. Sounds like your dads gonna love it.

[quickdtoo]

Here's Slufoot's hunt report from last month with load details.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,219183.msg1099193077.html#msg1099193077

I took my old Loggy Bayou climbing stand this morning and climbed high up into a birch tree well before daylight this morning. I was at the edge of a big laurel thicket and from my position, I could cover almost the whole edge of the thicket. Just as it was getting to were I could barely see, I saw something move in a tree about 12 feet from me. I turned me cap light on to see what it was and it was a little screech owl.
About 7:30 I heard something walking in the laurels to my right, I turned in my seat so that I would be in position, incase a shot presented itself. After several minutes of hearing the deer walking and stopping in the laurels he finally came out of the tangled jungle and was walking at a fast pace down the edge of the thicket. I picked out a small opening ahead of him and as soon as he hit the opening I hit the trigger. He dropped like a ton of bricks at the shot, I gave thanks to the Lord and then made my way back down the birch tree.
I call my muzzleloader Bubba Hyde because it metamorphosized from a stock 45-70 Handi-rifle into what it is now. I installed a Savage breechplug in the barrel, made the ramrod and ramrod thimble, got a Huntsman forend and wound up using an SB1 receiver from an $85 shotgun from a pawn shop. I also installed a different set of sights as a backup for the 3-9 Leupold scope that is mounted with Leupold Quick Release Weaver rings. This gun will drive a 40 caliber, 200 grain Hornady SST bullet in a Harvester sabot to 2400 fps and keep'em around 1.5" or less at 100 yards. I've been shooting this muzzleloader for three years now and have taken several deer with it. I really like old Bubba Hyde, it's light, accurate, good range and not too hard on the shoulder.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[burntmuch]

Sweeeeet, Thats the bullet Im using. about 2100 fps though. Thanks Tim. I do remember reading that.

[srussell]

very nice rifle. we have made several  like that  but just silver soldered the forearm lug on. again a great looking piece of work

[gjdykeman]

Beautiful, much better than mine. I used a Rossi collapsable rod, cut the wood off. Fits in to the fore arm screw. I re-machined my breach plug based on one of your previous posts. I purchased the sabots and bullets. A spring project. Powder and load??? I plan to use 80 to 100 grains 777. 

[Slufoot]

Tim, Thank you so much for getting the Pics posted. I was really getting discouraged last night after trying for two hours.

Thanks everyone for all the positive comments! I have to work all weekend but if the weather will cooperate I plan on doing some shooting Monday and/or Tuesday. I'll post the range report and let ya'll know how it does. I've got Harvester, Knight and Hornady Sabots and 200 grain Hornady SST's and XTP's plus about 400 T/C Shock Wave 200 grain blems that I bought from Midway, all bullets are 40 caliber.
I also have some Hornady sabots for use with 35 caliber bullets but I have never gotten satisfactory results with them.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[MSP Ret]

Great job Slufoot and I'm sure your Dad's going to be a happy and proud father. I like your modification to the forearm lug to allow a full length loading rod. I would like to do that to my H&R Huntsmans....Thanks for the great idea. I wish H&R would start doing that, I'll bet it would save them money over the cost of producing the gun by being able to use a solid ramrod and at the same time eliminate the weakest and worst part of the gun (not counting the plastic sights)....<><....

[Slufoot]

Thanks MSP Ret
I believe you are right, if it did cost H&R a little more to install the forend thimble/stud, I feel confident they would more than makeup for it in the savings of making a standard ramrod.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[tykempster]

Pretty awesome, I'm envious of your work!

[MSP Ret]

I agree, it would mean a better product for less cost to H&R (Remington). Now lets get member Brian56 to read this. If he could get "them" to implement the change it would be good for H&R/Remington and a feather in Brian56's cap as well. He could save the company production cost money and it would also result in a better product, a Win-Win situation of I ever saw one....<><....

[Slufoot]

Pretty awesome, I'm envious of your work!

Thank you very much tykempster!
Muzzleloaders have been a passion of mine since I was a teenager and I have been working on and modifying guns for about as long. Dang, I'm feeling old!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[kawie]

it looks great.i have one question.if you used this on the sb11 frame woudnt you have the option of using it as a smokeless muzzle loader like the savage.if so wouldnt this make for a cheaper smokeless conversion than the others that are out there.
thanks
Kawie

[Rj 1]

That turned out awesome! I am sure he will love it and the sling Perk made sets it off. You have me re-thinking the encore purchase now

[Slufoot]

it looks great.i have one question.if you used this on the sb11 frame woudnt you have the option of using it as a smokeless muzzle loader like the savage.if so wouldnt this make for a cheaper smokeless conversion than the others that are out there.
thanks
Kawie

Hello Kawie, The frame doesn't matter on a muzzleloader barrel with a fixed breechplug. The Savage plug has a ventliner with about a .031" orifice hole that the gasses would have to pass through before putting any pressure on the 209 primer which is the only thing that would put any backthrust on the frame. If you shot a load that generated 40,000 PSI there would be very little pressure that could make it through the .031" orifice. Maybe someone that is really good with the math can figure this out. Anyway the only thing the frame really needs to do is hold the barrel and take the recoil. I've been shooting my 45-70 Handi conversion for over three years now and have several hundred shots through it, all of which have been with smokeless powder.
I bought one of the very first Savage ML-II smokeless muzzleloaders and have put well over 600 rounds through it, all with smokeless powder. The Savage ML-II has no locking lugs, what locks the bolt is the bolt handle, this should shed some light on how much pressure is actually exerted to the 209 primer. This is also the reason I install the Savage breechplugs in these conversions, they were designed for use with smokeless powder.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Slufoot]

That turned out awesome! I am sure he will love it and the sling Perk made sets it off. You have me re-thinking the encore purchase now

Hey Rj 1, Thank you very much! You are more than welcome to come over sometime and shoot my muzzleloader, I'm sure Rick would also be tickled if you tried his out also.
Thanks again!

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[PHATINJUN]

Thank you for sharing Slufoot . You did a very fine job on this conversion. You're dad is very lucky. Kurt

[Slufoot]

Thank you Kurt, I feel like I'm the lucky one for having such a great dad!
If nothing comes up, tomorrow I'll get to try it out.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Slufoot]

I finally got to shoot dad's ML today! With only one range session I'm very happy with it. I shot a load with Accurate 5744, Harvester Sabot (not the crushrib), Hornady 200 gr XTP/HP (.400") and a Winchester 209 Primer. I used enough 5744 to get 2050 FPS and three, 3-shot groups @ 100 yards averaged just under 1.5" .
The temp was in the 30's and I had to walk through iced over very slick, busted my butt more than once, snow.
I took a camera with me and only took two pics and it said I needed to replace the batteries. I turned the resolution down on the camera, so maybe this will help me to post pics? Anyway here's a pic from behind the gun looking across the chronograph to my 100 yard target.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

[Rj 1]

I see you have some protection for your chrony, bet I know why 

[quickdtoo]

Sabots and gas checks are tough on chronys!! 

Nice shooting Slufoot!! 

Tim