Author Topic: Measuring interest in 300 AAC BLACKOUT factory chambering (Read 14751 times)

rsilvers · « **on:** January 08, 2011, 12:16:44 PM »

Hello. I have been a member hear for a year, and am project lead at AAC for the new 300 AAC BLACKOUT cartridge. This is version of the 300-221 Wildcat but we have submitted it to SAAMI. Most people are using it in AR15s - as one of the main advantages is that it can feed well from an AR and also cycle the action with supersonic and subsonic ammo.

I envision the specs as 5/8-24 16 inch light-weight threaded 1:8 twist barrel, and a synthetic stock:

I am thinking that a factory chambered Handi Rifle would be good for people who like lighter rifles and less recoil, and also it could have a threaded barrel so it would get more people into sound-suppressors which just makes shooting all around safer and more enjoyable.

So if there is some interest in this, I can work to get it factory chambered.

The ammo is on the way and within a few months should be abundant. I know of seven companies working on 15 different loads for it. We are doing a Model-7 bolt action, but the Handi Rifle is just 5 lbs and costs a lot less.

So let me know what you think.

Compared to 5.56mm

It has been good for deer and boar hunting.

There is some discussion of this cartridge here: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=128

Dinny · « **Reply #1 on:** January 08, 2011, 12:21:19 PM »

I like it!!

It's been a long time since I saw any promos listing a rifle for sale along with a case or box of ammo. Maybe this could revamp that old way of marketing. Maybe a voucher for a free box when you buy the Handi.

Thanks, Dinny

blind ear · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:12:59 PM »

Headspaceing on a very short sholder in a rimless cartridge seems to often be a problem in a Handy. Other than that I like the idea.

It seems that some straight walled pistol cases offer comparable ballistics without the headspace problem. ear

jeepmann1948 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:20:38 PM »

Sounds very interesting, ballistics for the very close to the 7.62 x 39 123 gr bullet and close to a 125 gr 30-30 load.I am looking forward to see how it progresses.

rsilvers · « **Reply #4 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:32:59 PM »

How does a Handi compare to a Contender for headspace?

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-5/200951192414-r805_bench%20copy.pdf

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:41:16 PM »

Depends on how consistent the ammo is and how well they chamber the barrels, if Remington can't do any better with it than they've done with the 35 Whelen which has been a real headache with production canceled once already, they're better not even try, the 300AAC appears to have a very tiny shoulder to headspace on which isn't the best. $:-\$

Tim

rsilvers · « **Reply #6 on:** January 08, 2011, 01:55:03 PM »

But is there something about the Handi which makes headspace more difficult than a bolt action or AR?

Dinny · « **Reply #7 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:10:05 PM »

With the barrel being stationary and no bolt to adjust, headspacing the chamber is more critical. The factory has to be spot-on when they cut the chambers. Reloaders have some wiggle room when they adjust their dies, but if done improperly, the reloader could be causing headspace problems all their own. Many of us prefer rimmed cartridges in the Handis, but it's not entirely essential.

Thanks, Dinny

gatersb · « **Reply #8 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:16:46 PM »

looks cool but seems it might be a headache

rsilvers · « **Reply #9 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:26:40 PM »

I am having two made. We will see.

We deal with tolerance stack often - an AR for example has the depth of the reamer tolerance stacked with the bolt face to back of bolt lugs stacked with the back of lugs stacked to barrel extension lugs.

Dinny · « **Reply #10 on:** January 08, 2011, 02:52:53 PM »

Quote from: rsilvers on January 08, 2011, 02:26:40 PM

I am having two made. We will see.

We deal with tolerance stack often - an AR for example has the depth of the reamer tolerance stacked with the bolt face to back of bolt lugs stacked with the back of lugs stacked to barrel extension lugs.

Need help testing them?

Just kidding!

I would venture to bet that if a person searched this forum for subsonic load data or subsonic cartridges, at least 5 pages would come up. It has been discussed several times and subsonic loads have a strong following. This would certainly fill that niche.

Thanks, Dinny

blind ear · « **Reply #11 on:** January 08, 2011, 03:06:38 PM »

Your sum of tolerances serve to optimize chamber space and headspace within close go, no go tolerances. Add to that an ignition system that is very close in operateing tollerances and you have a system that is very close tolerance wise. Even though fireing mechanisms desjgned to operate in simiauto/auto are loose by bolt standards, they are very tight when you compare them to a breech lock that closes with a gate swing, rotational, angular path that any small hicky can put out of tollerance. Any problem is magnified.

With the H&R single shot you have to account for weak trigger springs, fireing pin protrusion, energy transfer through a transfer bar type safety system and a headspace that is not controlled as a "closed" system when finished/locked. The tollerances of the lockup of the barrel face and the standing breech can put you out of headspace tollerance rather than looking at the chamber as one unit locked together.

ear

dk17hmr · « **Reply #12 on:** January 08, 2011, 08:27:08 PM »

I would be in for one. I have an AR15 chambered for 300 whisper. My brother and I both killed antelope with it last year. 125gr NBT's coming out of my AR's 16" barrel at 2200fps and did a great job on our speed goats.

A light weight single shot, that wouldnt break the bank would be really nice.....threaded or not.

wreckhog · « **Reply #13 on:** January 09, 2011, 01:16:43 AM »

Does it headspace off the shoulder? If so, looking at the shoulder, I would expect possible issues in a Handi.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #14 on:** January 09, 2011, 02:59:43 AM »

I've been following this cartridge's development over on rsilvers' sight. This is somehting significant. The 300 Blackout has the potential to be the 'just right' that people have been trying to find for 30 cal AR aplications. Rob already mentioned a couple of it's merits. One thing that can't be under stated is the fact that a number of manufacturers (not just small operations either) are offering factory loaded ammo for it. That's huge, and that is something that the 300Whisper has always lacked. I like a lot of the SSK developed cartridges, but this has some of their shortcomings knocked.

All that said, while it was developed for AR and bolt action aplications, we're talking Handis. There have been some good points made about the not liking small shoulder rimless cases. I don't see it as being a game stopper. The 35 Wheelen has been cancelled once, but they are out and do work. The 7.62x39 tanked because of the inconsistencies in the ammo depending on where the rounds were made. Us spec and East Block milsurp not being the same. This is all US made, modern ammo. I suspect that the Handi will work fine in this round. I know some here won't buy one in a non rimmed cartridge and there is no convincing them otherwise. OK, I'm not going to argue with them; never stand between a man and his 30-30

. People who may want to try out the new 300 Blackout and don't want to tie up a grand in hardware before they pull the trigger will flock to the Handi. Guys who shoot the round in an AR may want a Handi as a backup gun, as a load testing platform, or just for those times when you only want to pop off a couple of rounds. I know my recreational shooting sessions cost less when I bring a single shot instead of semis. I can definitely see the merit to bringing a Handi as a backup on a hog hunt. Your AR stops for whatever reason, break out the single and you're back in the game.

I'm hoping this becomes a factory option.

Slufoot · « **Reply #15 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:47:08 AM »

I would love to see this become a factory offering, hey guys if you didn't like the cartridge this would be the best 30 caliber barrel we have ever had for a rechamber project.

GOOD SHOOTING!
Slufoot

44 Man · « **Reply #16 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:57:50 AM »

So what happened to the Remington 30 AR cartridge? I thought that was going to be a great 'deer and hog' hunting round. It sounds like it's about the same as what this cartridge might be. I have not seen an Rem 30 AR in the stores at all, but I think it's a great answer to hunting 'real' critters with an AR. Does this cartridge have any advantage over it? I'd rather see a 6.8 rem in the handi, or bring back the 7.62x39. My 2 cts. 44 Man

rsilvers · « **Reply #17 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:23:22 AM »

This cartridge is not as powerful as 30 AR but is smaller and so has lower cost components. People can make brass from 223 or 5.56mm, so there will be low cost practice ammo. $9 a box remanufactured ammo seems to be on the horizon and one dealer was selling new ammo for $11.50 a box though he is sold out until the next batch.

sphingta · « **Reply #18 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:27:38 AM »

I'd buy one in a heart beat. Unfortunatly the contendors unless you bought them from ssk and not thompson did not have a fast enough twist. if they made them with a 1-8 in the handy that would be great.

rsilvers · « **Reply #19 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:38:07 AM »

If this were done for the Handi, yes, it would be 1:8 twist. The samples being made are 1:8 twist.

Graybeard · « **Reply #20 on:** January 09, 2011, 04:39:38 AM »

For the purposes of this forum and especially since the OP is not currently a GBO Sponsor let's confine this discussion to the round and its application to the H&R Handi Rifle.

Saloon slug · « **Reply #21 on:** January 09, 2011, 05:16:16 AM »

I think it would be a very fun Handi chambering especially if they also offer it in a light weight/ youth configuration. I can see this being a favorite with the more recoil shy group. I am interested in seeing how this progresses.

dk17hmr · « **Reply #22 on:** January 09, 2011, 08:15:33 AM »

Another thought, and I just tried it, run a piece of 357 max brass into a full length 300 whisper sizer and trim it down to the correct length. Of course the chamber would have to be cut for a rim.....if headspacing became an issue.

357 Magnum brass would work also, but the neck would be very short.

bagdadjoe · « **Reply #23 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:45:59 AM »

gimme one.....

maybe one of us could get a reamer made up for a rimmed version per dk17hmr's suggestion and pass it around like the 357 max. I like the idea and I like the idea of a rimmed one even better.

Dinny · « **Reply #24 on:** January 09, 2011, 10:58:37 AM »

Quote from: bagdadjoe on January 09, 2011, 10:45:59 AM

gimme one..... maybe one of us could get a reamer made up for a rimmed version per dk17hmr's suggestion and pass it around like the 357 max. I like the idea and I like the idea of a rimmed one even better.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves here. I too have some of the same thoughts, but we have to be on-board and together enough to get the proposed cartridge introduced. After that, we can work on making it something else, if we so choose to.

A 1:8" twist 30 cal in the Handi is a great start!!

Thanks, Dinny

manatee1947 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 09, 2011, 12:34:37 PM »

Not a bad Idea, this is why I have put back a little $ dedicated just for when they make a 327 federal. I would say why stop there, get a 256 winchester die and squeeze it on down to a 256 maximum. The only plus I see here is that I think you could make cases from 223 brass.

Alvin · « **Reply #26 on:** January 09, 2011, 03:43:17 PM »

I would be interested in one, and go ahead and thread that barrel. I have always wanted to try a silencer.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #27 on:** January 10, 2011, 01:41:55 AM »

Quote from: Alvin on January 09, 2011, 03:43:17 PM

I would be interested in one, and go ahead and thread that barrel. I have always wanted to try a silencer.

If H&R offered threaded barrels straight from the factory, they'd sell a bunch of them in all kinds of cartridges.

stimpylu32 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 10, 2011, 09:34:15 AM »

rsilvers

I have been looking into this little round and like what I see , if H&R / Rem were to put this out as a factory rifle it would fill a nitch that so far has needed to be filled form a Handloading ONLY standpoint .

A low recoiling round that could be used for everything from varmints to hogs & deer , yet having a platform that is idea for training new or younger shooters .

If the possable headspace issues can be adderssed I see no reason why this could not sell very well and be an even better draw to those of us that do handload .

Just my $.02 on it .

stimpy

mike@nds · « **Reply #29 on:** January 10, 2011, 11:52:31 AM »

It would be a winner with a factory threaded barrel and good iron sights.

I have been thinking about this type of cartridge in the CZ 527 also.

Poll

Handi Rifle in 300 BLK?

Author Topic: Measuring interest in 300 AAC BLACKOUT factory chambering (Read 14751 times)