Author Topic: UNKNOWN CANNON/CARRONADE (Read 3087 times)

alamein51 · « **on:** February 08, 2011, 03:55:23 AM »

HI,AM NEW TO SITE BUT WOULD APPRECIATE HELP IN IDENTIFYING ATTACHED SKETCH OF CARRONADE/GUNNADE I RECENTLY SAW.NO PHOTOS YET .HAS A RAISED CROWN JUST IN FRONT OF TOUCHHOLE.CANNOT SEE ANY OTHER MARKS BUT MAY BE SOME UNDER PAINT/CRUD.HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP WITH AGE/COUNTRY/MAKER ETC.ALSO,AN APPROX. VALUE IF PERMITTED.THANKS,JOHN

lance · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:03:31 AM »

What a coincidence............I was watching History Detectives the other night on T.V., they showed a 14 year old girl and the cannon she found on Cannon Beach, they think it was from " The Shark". Kinda looks like the one in your drawing

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:20:14 AM »

alamein51

WELCOME to the board.

Just for fun, do a search on Carronande.

(both in this formum and through Google.)

Let us know what you find.

alamein51 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:34:20 AM »

MANY THANKS FOR REPLIES RECEIVED.STILL TRYING TO NAVIGATE SIT SO EXCUSE ME IF I DO NOT REPLY PERSONALLY.I HAVE PUT EXTRA PHOTOS ON NOW.STILL WONDERING WHAT CROWN SYMBOL MEANS.SOMEONE SAID MIGHT BE SWEDISH?? JOHN

dan610324 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:35:57 AM »

absolutely not swedish

its worth what you want to pay for it
I suppose the pictures/thumbnails comes from some website where someone try to sell it .

if yoy want it , how much are you prepared to give for a toy .

alamein51 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2011, 07:59:55 AM »

THANKS DAN FOR RULING SWEDEN OUT.I THINK IT MAY BE ENGLISH BUT AM NO EXPERT.PHOTOS COME FROM SELLER WHO HAS SEVERAL TO SELL BUT HAS NOT QUOTED ANY PRICE YET.THANKS AGAIN,JOHN

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2011, 08:53:25 AM »

Alamein, welcome to the board, glad to have you join us.

If you can provide good clear pictures of the markings and a close up with that crown it would help, another clue that sometimes helps is to tell us what country it is in and what history is being credited to it...not always correct by the way, usually interesting but can help.

Oh yes on the internet typing in all caps is reserved for yelling. Since I got my new hearing aids, I can hear just fine, wife says there is still have some issues with listening...bah on her. Reading all caps is hard, so please turn you cap lock key off.

In banner at the top of the GBO page you will see the word search. Click on that. The search window will open. When it does look for advanced search and click on that. When advanced search opens type in carronade in the search for window. Below that a bit you will see a Choose a board to search in, or search all section with a box that has a checkmark for search all. Click on the checkmark by search all to remove it, then the click on the plus sign by Choose a board to search in, or search all title and list of of the all the boards on GBO will open.

Near the top on the right under Black powder forums Click on the box by Blackpowder Mortar and Cannon Sponsored by Seacoast Artillery, then scroll to bottem and click on search. I got 3 pages of post on Carronades.

alamein51 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2011, 09:42:00 AM »

Hi Douglas,Many thanks for the welcome and advice.Cannon are in the U.K.Three in total.Could only see the "Crown" mark in front of touch hole,no other marks/lettering visible buy might be under the surface layer.Will search the internet some more but thought the Crown might be a guide.Regards,John

Double D · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:11:53 AM »

I don't believe this gun is really a carronade, but is a gunnade. Carronades don't have trunnions. One of the places to look for markings is on the end of the trunnions.

alamein51 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:26:54 AM »

Yes,I read somewhere Gunnades have "central" trunnions while Carronade trunnions are underneath.I will look for any markings where you suggest.Thanks again,John

nchokie · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:42:56 PM »

I have this exact cannon with the crown [mine shows the numeral 6 in back of the vent.I brought mine back rom Scotland.It is a gunade and was manufactured in Carron Iron Works in Falkirk ,Scotland.
I don't know the value.

BoomLover · « **Reply #11 on:** February 08, 2011, 09:11:21 PM »

Interesting, nchokie...maybe you could compare notes to see exactly what you have with alamein51 and find out what you both either have, (in your case), or are looking to buy, (in his case)....... I like seeing new names on the forum, good to see new blood coming aboard for fresh ideas and pics, and lots of questions! BoomLover

alamein51 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 08, 2011, 09:50:44 PM »

Many thanks for the Falkirk clue which would fit in with what the seller has told me.You mentioned a number 6 near the "vent".Where is the vent on a gun so I can look next time I see them and would the 6 perhaps refer to weight of ball or some other measurement.Thanks once again to everybody who has sent info.John

A.Roads · « **Reply #13 on:** February 08, 2011, 10:40:15 PM »

"I don't believe this gun is really a carronade, but is a gunnade. Carronades don't have trunnions."

Its an important point to remember that gunnade is an American term, and the English call the artillery piece - that is subject of this discussion - a carronade. So it is a carronade to John, who presumably is in the UK.

The carronade in question is a fairly common & generic one that were cast in great number for the commercial market, many commercial ships were armed with these for self defence. As such there is no Govt military "pattern" that applies.

I think I may have posted pictures of my own carronade here some time ago - but will attach images in case not - apologies if its been on here before.
Adrian

alamein51 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2011, 12:13:02 AM »

Hi Adrian,Great photos and thanks.Yours looks identical to my one.Do you know age/maker/country of yours and any markings on yours.What weight /size of ball does yours take? Thanks again,John

nchokie · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2011, 02:24:54 AM »

I looked more closely at the sketch on your 1st post .....the dimple referred to in front of the vent or touch hole is actually the numeral 6 [I believe].Thats where my numeral 6 is [I was speaking from memory when I said it was in back of the vent[touch hole]
Anyway,I assume it denotes the weight of ball...ie 6lbs ??

Double D · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:02:24 AM »

Thank you Adrian, for clarifying the term for us, it makes sense. The term has been discussed here before but never identifying gunade as an American description.

A 6 PDR would have a bore around 3.62 inches.

Zulu · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:41:56 AM »

For the New Guys,
Welcome.
I have posted these pictures before but you probably have not seen them.
The carronade with trunnions has always facinated me.
This is my full scale version of a 12 pounder. 4" bore. Non-firing.
Zulu

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:54:18 AM »

ANOTHER masterpiece!

alamein51 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:29:31 AM »

Thanks for info on the "dimple".I will have a closer look next time.Also,thanks for the photos.Great Work!!! Regards,John

nchokie · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2011, 06:36:45 AM »

Thanks for the bore size info DD ,mine is a 6 lb gun at 3.6"

lance · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:18:01 AM »

All kinds of COOL pictures on this topic!!!

A.Roads · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:28:31 PM »

What weight /size of ball does yours take?

Mine is also an approx 4" bore - so most likely a nine pounder.
It was a sea bed recovery so the bore is corroded making measurement taking uncertain - also it has the internal flash rim at the muzzle.
Adrian

lance · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2011, 03:13:42 PM »

I have never talked to A.Roads before, but, i want to say that i really like the pictures of his carronade, and the display that surrounds it. That's a real class act.

A.Roads · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:06:15 AM »

Thanks lance, my wife did the artwork - without which it would be "another boring cannon"
The first & only (so far) attempt she has ever done at art - I certainly couldn't do that.
Adrian

Cannoneer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2011, 06:43:32 AM »

Quote from: nchokie on February 08, 2011, 01:42:56 PM

I have this exact cannon with the crown [mine shows the numeral 6 in back of the vent.I brought mine back rom Scotland.It is a gunade and was manufactured in Carron Iron Works in Falkirk ,Scotland.
I don't know the value.

nchokie,
Welcome to the forum. I hope you don't mind me asking this, but what informs you that your gunade was manufactured by the Carron Company? Did the store or person in Scotland that sold you the cannon tell you this, or did someone tell you that the crown emblem on top of the tube signifies that it was made by the Carron Co.?

alamein51 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 18, 2011, 12:15:44 AM »

Further to my original post,I have been advised that the estimated price for all three Gunnades,which are being auctioned now in a months time will be approx. £3000 -£6000 for the three.Location U.K. If any fellow enthusiasts are interested in buying one of them(you must arrange all shipping etc.),I will take details on a first come,first served basis and if I am able to buy within that price frame,am willing to share the purchase.Only one serviceable carriage,other two in pieces but with some ironwork .Believed to be 6 pounders with approx. 50" barrels .

Bob Smith · « **Reply #27 on:** February 18, 2011, 12:32:30 AM »

The crown cast onto the barrel is just a bit of spurious marketing; in the 18th century certain gunfounders had their guns proofed for the private market at Woolwich and these had a crowned P engraved on them; casting a crown just makes them look a bit more official than they were.

Carron guns always have the word CARRON, a date and a serial number engraved on one of the trunnions, or under the carronade, if it is a proper, untrunnioned carronade.

Bob Smith

alamein51 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 18, 2011, 12:38:11 AM »

Many thanks Bob.Will be seeing them tomorrow,hopefully and will see what I can find on them,Thanks again,John

nchokie · « **Reply #29 on:** February 18, 2011, 03:36:52 AM »

Boom J
Sorry I have been out of town an not keeping up..
I shouln't sound like an expert ,as I certainly am not...
I lived in Falkirk ,Scotland in the early seventies .I bought my cannon there in an estate sale.The gun sat outsie a large manor home there for many years.Carron Iron Works was very close by and still operating.I assumed the gun was manufactured there,but I would certainly bow to the more knowledgable on this subject .
Over the years I have seen serveral marked like mine with the crown and the numeral 6 ...nothing else