45 cal Handis and pelleted cartridges

[bikerbeans]

Hi All,

There was a thread before last CHRISTmas regarding usage of pyrodex or 777 pellets in cartridge loads.  Since I was given a bunch of pellets I thought why not?  The pellets used where 50 grain 50 cal. 777 and 30 grain 44/45 caliber pyrodex (pistol pellets).  Primer was CCI LR, 200.  45/70 brass was the Hornady LE stuff, nice & short.   45/120 brass was Norma.  Bullet was .459 dia, 405 Grain (actual 402) Lee HB with Lyman supermoly.  I bought these from a caster.   Some bullets were seated touching the pellets and other the pellets were loose in the brass.  Note:  the 50 cal. 777 pellets will not fit into sized brass, must be fired & unsized.  I used a very light taper crimp to keep the bullets in place.       

45-70 - 22" barrel

50 grain - 985 FPS
60 grain - 1243 FPS
80 grain - 1379 FPS (note,  this load only possible if you load the 30 cal. pyro pellet first)

45-120 - 32" barrel

100 grain - 1478 FPS
130 grain - 1829 FPS
150 grain - 1904 FPS (with a different bullet or a longer throat (4) 50/50 pellets would probably fit)

All of the 45-70 rounds shot with the H&R open sights and my bad eyes.  The 80 grain equivalent loads where the most accurate and I could get a 2" group @ 50 yards if I did my part. 

The 130 & 150 grain 45/120 loads are too hot for the hollow base bullets and accuracy wasn't so good, minute of pie plate at 100 yards. 

Okay it works and is safe in MY GUNS but from economic point of view it isn't the cheap way to shoot substitute BPCR.  Of course when the pellets are free, all donations gladly accepted.   ALSO, these loads my not be safe in a gun designed exclusively for black powder cartridges.  Hodgdon only reccomends using pyrodex pellets in cartridges, not 777, because of the pressures involved.  Also, they reccommend pyrodex rifle pellets not the pistol pellets I was using.  Remember the given charges are grain equivalent to black powder and not actual weights of these propelletants.

BTW, the big cloud of smoke emitted from the 45-120 is way kool, even to an old fart like me.

BB

[Yak Angler]

Hey BB

Very cool experiment indeed.

I am blown away by the velocity difference from the 22 to 32" barrel
I knew blackpowder rifles gained some additional velocity from longer barrels but having never shot a short barrel smoke pole through a chronny before i can't believe the difference. no doubt the powder charge had some influence on it but still

Arn't freebies nice?

[quickdtoo]

Works with smokeless too in the 45-70, I got 150-200fps more velocity with 350gr jacketed bullets using both H322 and IMR4198 in the 32" BC compared to the 22" Handi.

Nice experiment BB, but like ya said, pellets aren't economical in any way shape or form, 777 loose isn't either in my 45-120, it takes 95gr per shot, @ $20 a lb last I checked, equal velocity can be achieved with less than half as much A5744, both under a 405gr bullet, the only difference is the smoke and fouling left by the 777. 

Tim

[gcrank1]

You got close to the magic 2k fps! With a quenched PB 350ish and an inverted gas check under it (or a PCV check or even 1/8" or more of a stiffish wax 'check') you might get some accuracy too.
Whats next on your trials schedule?

[bikerbeans]

adam,

Most of the velocity difference appears to be from the extra powder not the barrel length.  I might try launching one of the 45/70 pelleted cartridges out of the 45-120 and see what the difference in speed is but I think the huge bullet jump will end up keyholing the projectile. 

gcrank,

44/45 cal. pellets in 444M.

BB

[gcrank1]

Oh oh!, I can see it now, youre gonna hafta modify that topic line to 'Big Bore Handi's and Pelleted Cartridges'