Author Topic: Sustainable Beekeeping (Read 1876 times)

Lost Farmboy · « **on:** May 08, 2011, 02:09:10 PM »

I wanted to start a thread about sustainable beekeeping. By sustainable beekeeping I mean keeping bees naturally without the use of chemical treatments. It's a coincidence that I started keeping bees as colony collapse disorder (CCD) was just starting. I don't want this thread to be as much of a discussion of what is killing the bees as how to raise them naturally and avoid CCD. When people ask me what is killing the bees I say the same thing that is killing the people. Obese bees are being fed an unnatural diet, over medicated and contaminated with chemicals.

I wanted to start beekeeping years before I got started. The number one reason I waited so long was cost. I added up the cost of a starter kit, components for 2 hives and bees. The total ended up over $1000. That was for the traditional Langstroth or lang hives. Then I discovered top bar hives. I built a complete top bar hive for$30 and a with $70 package of bees I was started. I found ways to cut cost on langstroth hives and now all my hives are langs. Any body out there want to start sustainable beekeeping?

hillbill · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2011, 02:30:47 PM »

there is nuttin better than fresh honey your bees have gathered for u!me and my dad used to keep bees back in the 80's.if i remmeber correctly if your a semi competent wood worker, yu should be able to build your hives and comb frames.if your not its gonna be expensive.the only real equipment we had was a head net and a smoker.oh we did have a nice comb spinner that my gma gave us.that was a essential peice of equipment.bee keeping is a lot of work but no different than gardening and canning.you get out what yu put in.

Cornbelt · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2011, 04:02:11 PM »

Quote

Then I discovered top bar hives

Haven't heard of them. Could you enlighten us some?
I've been trying to keep bees off and on since the early '70's. Only good bunch was in the wall of the garage. When I put them in a typical hive, they all died.
Around here the melon farmers sometimes use what looks like corrugated cardboard hives, but is probably plastic. I'm wondering ig the wood doesn't soak up disease. Plastic should be cheap enough to give 'em a new home every year.
I'd like to keep some around just for the garden, but though they are always out foraging, then never make enough honey for winter reserves; much less enough to rob for our own eating.
Some of the natural mite killers (trachael mites) have menthol in them, such as wintergreen oil. The mint family also has some menthol in it and mint is easy to grow. Wintergreen may be too, but I haven't tried. When the weather warms up and they start fanning to air-condition the hive, one drop of wintergreen oil is more than enough to treat a hive; which keeps you from having to resort to commercial menthol treatments (with all their warnings). Maybe Vicks in the smoker would do the same.
I'd like to keep some on a small scale even if I have to catch a swarm and put back in the garage wall. They make a noticeable difference in our fruit trees.

Just in the past year I've known of at least 50 hive boxes up for grabs. Some sold for a song; the others just got burned up. Melon farmers rent from commercial outfits and don't want to be bothered.
What can you tell us about CCD?

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2011, 02:03:20 PM »

Cornbelt

Top bar hives are ideal for your goals. The number one key to raising healthy bees is natural size bees. About 100 years ago somebody decided that larger bees would produce more honey. The lager bees are more susceptible to disease and mites than natural sized ones.

The feral bees like the ones you caught are the healthiest ones. It's the cheapest and best way to get bees if you can.

I will put together a post about natural size bees first. Then a post about top bar hives.

Cornbelt · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:16:48 PM »

Thanks. I'll be looking forward to it.

blind ear · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2011, 05:22:29 PM »

Me to, ear

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #6 on:** May 10, 2011, 05:16:01 PM »

I learned about 50% of what I know about sustainable beekeeping from Michael Bush. At the bottom of this post is a link from his website about natural cell size.

One of the most recent pest to invade the bee hives is the varroa mites. For thousands of years the tiny varroa mites have been living in harmony with the honey bees. They reproduced in the larger drone cells. The worker bee larva are raised in the smaller cells. The workers emerge earlier than the drones so the varroa mites in drone cells survived and the ones reproducing in the worker cells didn't. The wax foundation used in modern hives has larger cells making larger bees that take longer to emerge from their cells. The extra time allows the varroa mites to reproduce in the worker cells. By reproducing in the worker cells the varroa mites overwhelm the hive killing it off. Smaller cell size also protects bees from Tracheal mites and other pest and diseases.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:04:41 AM »

Top bar hives were developed in Greece thousands of years ago. It is a simple and cheap way to raise bees. The beekeepers at the local beekeeping club told me they were too hard to manage for a beginner. After trying it I disagree. They are widely used in Africa where resources are scarce. They can be worked with less disruption to the bees, in Africa that is important.

I now have 5 traditional langstroth hives. If they do well though the winter and in spring I plan to shake some bees into the empty packages I have and put them in top bar hives. I am planning to use Michael Bush's Kenya style top bar hive. It is simple to make and cheap. Once again Michael Bush's web site is the best place for information. Click his link below for plans and more.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopbarhives.htm

blind ear · « **Reply #8 on:** May 11, 2011, 01:28:49 AM »

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Wow, it can get real complicated in a hurry if you try to "know" it all. ear

Cornbelt · « **Reply #9 on:** May 11, 2011, 05:35:10 AM »

Very interesting. Less work, better bees. Let them alone to do it the way God created them. What a novel idea.

bilmac · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2011, 01:28:13 AM »

I built a top bar hive last winter and put a package of bees in it about three weeks ago. I've been feeding them since then, there isn't anything but willows and cottonwoods blooming here yet. You can hear the bees in the trees, so they're out working, but they are still going through the sugar water. I know that bees can do well in this area because a large commercial operator used to keep bees just a 1/4 mile away, and those hives aren't there this year, so my hive will be the only one in the area this year.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:10:38 AM »

Quote from: blind ear on May 11, 2011, 01:28:49 AM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

Wow, it can get real complicated in a hurry if you try to "know" it all. ear

I find natural cell size to be far less complicated than trying to figure out all the medications.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:17:23 AM »

Quote from: bilmac on May 15, 2011, 01:28:13 AM

I built a top bar hive last winter and put a package of bees in it about three weeks ago. I've been feeding them since then, there isn't anything but willows and cottonwoods blooming here yet. You can hear the bees in the trees, so they're out working, but they are still going through the sugar water. I know that bees can do well in this area because a large commercial operator used to keep bees just a 1/4 mile away, and those hives aren't there this year, so my hive will be the only one in the area this year.

Generally 2 square miles will support 20 hives. If they take the sugar water keep feeding them until they get a good start. Feeding them will help them make comb.

bilmac · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2011, 05:27:42 AM »

That may be 1200 acres in the rest of the world, where my bees are is pretty bare desert. The commercial keeper put about 10 hives next door and they got most of their flower power from an alfalfa field. But then the commercial guys gather the hives up in the winter and probably feed them sugar.

I've read that the bees will make willow honey, and it seemed like the commercial bees were in my cottonwoods last spring. I don't think the flowers on the trees are going to last much longer, so do you think I will have to feed until the alfalfa blooms?

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2011, 01:15:09 PM »

Bees are pretty resourceful when it comes to finding nectar, even in a dessert. With a new hive like yours I would feed until the alfalfa blooms. After that the best way to see if you need to feed is open the hive and look at a few combs. It they have honey their OK, if not feed. Get a small honey bottle with a cone top. Squirt a small line of honey on the landing board. If they pretty much ignore the honey you have a good honey flow going. If they line up and feed, check their resources and see if they need sugar water. The greatest danger of over feeding is they may swarm.

bilmac · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2011, 02:46:51 PM »

Thanks farmboy, I have a lot to learn, but I am gratified that my package seems to have taken and the bees like their new home.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2011, 09:05:20 AM »

Seems silent fields has made a few folks uneasy and they began looking into why.
Seems folks are finally noticeing the decline in numbers of natures pollinaters.

www.pollinator.org

www.nappc.org

www.fws.gov/pollinators/

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:13:32 AM »

A little bit about finding bees.

Finding natural size bees or small cell as they are called can be hard. Bees are sold two ways. One is a package, the other is called a nuc. A package is a small cage with 2 to 4 pounds of bees a queen in a smaller cage and a can of syrup to feed them. A nuc is a small hive with 3 to 5 frames with bees that are already working as a hive. A package is best to start a top bar hive, but it can be done with a nuc too. Right now any kind of bees are hard to get.

I got my bees from fatbeeman.com. He sells small cell nucs nation wide and packages for pickup only in Lula Georgia. He has been raising organic bees for over 20 years. I think he may have the best pool of bee genetics in the country. He has a good YouTube channel too.

There is a guy called Amish Myron who sells small cell packages. I do not know how to find him but you should be able to find him with Google.

I think wild bees are the best. You can get them free. Just call local exterminators and let them know you want them. It might not be good for beginners.

If you cannot find small cell bees Michael Bush's website shows a few ways to reduce the size of normal ones. When I first tried to buy some bees I was too late and had to wait another year. I learned a lot in the year, so maybe it was a good thing.

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2011, 02:43:09 AM »

My son has several hives and they are doing well.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2011, 11:11:59 AM »

Found this hope the link works.

http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/vb/showthread.php?t=192168

shinjin · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2011, 09:55:52 AM »

Anybody needs Bees can come capture them at my swimming pool. The po' thirsty little buggers coem for a drink and end up drowning then fill up the pool skimmer every day. I do not mind them swimming uninvited but I do wish they would cease stinging me when I take a dip!

BW56 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2011, 08:19:26 PM »

I wish some one in Phoenix would come get the bees living in my storage wall. Some day i need to get them out of there. Bob

bilmac · « **Reply #22 on:** July 17, 2011, 04:28:14 PM »

Farmboy, In one of your early posts you said you were thinking about splitting your Langsworths to put bees in a top bar hive. I will be wanting to do the same next year. Moving a bunch of workers should be easy, but I can't figure how to assure that I get a queen moved. What are you planning to do?

Cornbelt · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:53:26 AM »

It's not hard to spot the queen if you look over every frame carefully. She'll be about twice as long, but won't resemble a drone.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2011, 12:58:29 PM »

My plan is to tie top bars for the top bar hive to lang top bars. Put 1 in the center of a nuc (small 5 frame hive). Bees start their brood nest in the center of the hive. When that one has a good start remove a lang frame next to it and replace it with 1 of the top bars attached to a lang bar.

Take the frame you remove and place it in a hive that needs help. Look it over carefully and make sure the queen is not on it. ( it's a good idea to practice looking for queens like cornbelt says in spring when hives are small. Nucs are also good for practice spotting queens.) If she is on it put it back carefully and take the one on the other side.

Before you remove the frame from the nuc prepare the hive you want to put it in. Smoke it real good. Remove an empty frame. Move the frames to create and open space for the new frame. Take the 2 frames on each side of the space out and spray everybody with sugar water. Again when you put the new frame in spray everybody with sugar water. Spaying the bees with sugar water will prevent the bees from killing the new bees thinking they are invaders robbing them.

It's a good practice to keep a nuc and remove frames and give them to hives that need help.

When you have 3 good top bars in the nuc, remove them and place them in the top bar hive. Make sure the queen goes two the top bar hive. Remove a frame or 2 with brood and eggs from your best hive and put it in the nuc so they can raise a new queen. It is important the new queen comes from your best hive.

bilmac · « **Reply #25 on:** July 23, 2011, 01:12:14 PM »

Thanks Farmboy