Author Topic: 40 MM Rifled Breach Loader (Read 15379 times)

Cannoneer · « **Reply #120 on:** July 29, 2011, 12:23:51 PM »

Moose,
I saw this the other day on YT, and thought you'd appreciate viewing it; check out this fantastic interupted screw breech mechanism from an 1889 British naval gun.

moose53 · « **Reply #121 on:** July 29, 2011, 03:51:39 PM »

Cannoneer Thank you very much , I did enjoy looking at the screw breech . Would you by chance know the machine they used to cut the stepped interrupted threads , I have yet to see one .

Cannoneer · « **Reply #122 on:** July 30, 2011, 06:10:05 AM »

Moose,
That makes two of us, because I've never seen one either; but is the breech shown in the vid a stepped/Welin type breech, or a de Bange system?

Cannonmn made a vid (that he posted here before) of the 'Watervliet Arsenal Museum' machine shop, and in it can be seen a large stepped breech block sitting on the machine that was used to remove the metal along the axis of the breech block after it was threaded. There's a good chance that the machine you'd like to see is sitting in this shop somewhere.
Note the shorter distance that the stepped breech has to be rotated to close, as compared wth the British 1889 breech.
Cannonmn's full 9 minute video ["Watervliet Arsenal Museum Machine Shop"] can be found at YouTube.

Double D · « **Reply #123 on:** July 30, 2011, 06:27:53 AM »

The first machine in Cannonmn's video is a shaper and is used to cut a way the threads to make a interrupted thread.

moose53 · « **Reply #124 on:** July 30, 2011, 02:55:10 PM »

Yes the breech in the video is interrupted thread breech , I was wondering about the Welin type breech. I understand the main advantage is you can get up to 75% thread contact as opposed to 50% with interrupted threads.I found a possible sponge head for my 40mm that will clean the 1-7/8in powder chamber also .It is a Wooster Jumbo-Koter Super/Fab 6-1/2in long 3/4in nap paint roller #RR309-6-1/2 . The inside core is 15/16in OD, looks like 23/32in ID .So they will fit on a 3/4in dowel sanded down a little bit. They are about $3.00 apiece at Jerry's Home improvement. I will try them out and see how durable they are .

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #125 on:** October 09, 2011, 08:04:30 PM »

Moose, I'm really impressed with the great barrel you made and was wondering if you have tested it's accuracy.

moose53 · « **Reply #126 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:48:27 PM »

I had a shop mishap Oct 5 that put me in the hospital for a month , the Doctor figures about 6 to 8 months before full recovery . So I haven't tested for accuracy just yet . The Lone Pine shoot in Oregon is in May , and I hope to go to it and see how well it shoots. Started rehab back in the shop in Feb with my bowling ball cannon and now I am trying to finish up the 40mm for the shoot at Lone Pine. I have a set of wheels without metal parts ,that I am making the metal parts for. The wheels are set up so I can put rubber tires on the cannon for towing behind a pickup, and then switch to wood wheels at the shoot. The rim is set up with removable tabs and clamped to check size.

GGaskill · « **Reply #127 on:** March 23, 2012, 07:27:00 PM »

I had a shop mishap Oct 5 that put me in the hospital for a month, the Doctor figures about 6 to 8 months before full recovery.

Not good (the first part); hope there was no permanent damage and the recovery will be 100%.

A painful reminder that there is the potential for injury in this hobby (just like snowboarding, skiing, football, yada yada, yada.) Everyone should keep safety in mind.

Cannon Cocker · « **Reply #128 on:** March 23, 2012, 08:18:22 PM »

Thanks for the reply. I hope deciding what cannon to build soon becomes your biggest problem. I am currently building a breech loading 40mm (if I can ever get my friend with a machine shop to help me as promised). Your posts on breech loaders have been inspiring and I know the gun I end up with will be much better than what I would have designed without them. It will have your rubber gas check and many other of your ingenious ideas. Thanks for all the input. I know others have been motivated and impressed as well.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #129 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:25:05 AM »

Moose53,
I'm sad to learn of your injury, and wish you a successful recovery. The wheels look good.

moose53 · « **Reply #130 on:** April 07, 2012, 04:56:14 PM »

Did a trial fit of my wheels today , it really surprised me how much the wood wheels changed the character of the cannon. Also surprised me just how labor intensive even redoing a set of wood wheels is . Now need to strip the old paint and finish the wood in yellow and the carriage in olive drab.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #131 on:** April 07, 2012, 05:10:52 PM »

Moose,
You cannon is looking great! did you build the carraige for another gun?

moose53 · « **Reply #132 on:** April 07, 2012, 05:52:10 PM »

Thank you . Yes the carriage is modeled after the Hotchkiss 2 pounder mountain gun , i was able to draw the plans from a original cannon that Herman Johns had in Dorris California ( years ago when I was going to school in Klamath Falls Oregon ). The barrel is about the right scale but the wheels are 21in and should be 29in if I remember right.

Zulu · « **Reply #133 on:** April 08, 2012, 02:03:58 AM »

Moose,
Looks good!
It looks like you have a pretty damaged spoke on the left wheel. It is VERY hard to replace a spoke. What are you planning to do?
Zulu

moose53 · « **Reply #134 on:** April 08, 2012, 06:07:50 AM »

Fortunately the only wood damage are several wood chips missing from the fellows, what you see is paint spatters. Damage to fellows should be simple to repair.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #135 on:** April 10, 2012, 01:09:21 PM »

If and when I can get my Whitworth project going I have two carraiges to choose from to model mine..... a Hotchkiss or a Krupp I have access to both..... I have too many things going on to think about machining a barrel right now though......

moose53 · « **Reply #136 on:** April 10, 2012, 03:33:59 PM »

Its a tremendous help to have original carriages to look at when making one , a lot of details aren't directly obvious from photos .

plastikosmd · « **Reply #137 on:** April 14, 2012, 07:44:50 AM »

Quote from: KABAR2 on April 10, 2012, 01:09:21 PM

If and when I can get my Whitworth project going I have two carraiges to choose from to model mine..... a Hotchkiss or a Krupp I have access to both..... I have too many things going on to think about machining a barrel right now though......

darn....

cannonmn · « **Reply #138 on:** April 17, 2012, 03:58:58 AM »

This is one approach to making a 40mm breechloader. It is an attempt to replicate a Whitworth breechloader which as you probably know had an "uninterrupted thread" screw-in breech mechanism, although Whitworth went with a female-threaded breech cap and Mr. Ed used a male-threaded one. This video has had nearly 150K views-certainly surprising-I think the audience likes "fast-talkin' Ed" as much as the cannon stuff. Or maybe they like the somewhat unique "recoil system" or the "boat-tail wadcutter" projectile, not sure.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #139 on:** April 17, 2012, 04:47:52 AM »

I've admired Ed's cannon since first seeing it, and I'm curious to know if he's ever tried firing the projectiles point forward.

moose53 · « **Reply #140 on:** April 18, 2012, 01:09:14 PM »

Did a final fit up of the hubs today , the final fit is 2 1/2inchs narrower . Also shown is how wheel can be removed for rubber tire installation , makes it easy to pull behind a truck.

moose53 · « **Reply #141 on:** April 21, 2012, 05:08:24 PM »

Double D's post of the Long Cecil cannon , made me think of what would happen if the head broke of my obturator spindle. I redid the spindle with a collar that will keep it in the cannon in the event of a failure. At the same time I counter sunk the spindle 3/4 inch and used 1/2 inch course instead of fine threads to make threading the primer snapper on and off faster.

Victor3 · « **Reply #142 on:** April 21, 2012, 09:30:53 PM »

Quote from: cannonmn on April 17, 2012, 03:58:58 AM

This video has had nearly 150K views-certainly surprising-I think the audience likes "fast-talkin' Ed" as much as the cannon stuff. Or maybe they like the somewhat unique "recoil system" or the "boat-tail wadcutter" projectile, not sure.

Ed appears to be someone who can light up a room. Brightens up my day, watching the vids you have him star in. I'm sure his curiosity and enthusiasm keep him young at heart.

Double D · « **Reply #143 on:** April 23, 2012, 05:26:35 PM »

I doubt any one shoots a bigger table top cannon than Ed.

moose53 · « **Reply #144 on:** April 24, 2012, 03:12:44 PM »

Redid the firing pin snapper , made it 2-7/8 inch long by 1 inch round . Reduced the stick out by just over 1inch .

moose53 · « **Reply #145 on:** April 26, 2012, 07:19:00 AM »

The post by ClassicCannons about the 5cm Projectile for Krupps Gun exposed a possible flaw in my projectile design . Although very similar my projectile is considerably shorter and has tendency to hook badly. The faster rifling in the 40 mm barrels may require a longer shell.

GGaskill · « **Reply #146 on:** April 26, 2012, 11:26:43 AM »

Is the hook random or steady? If random, I think you are getting undetected flaws in your shot. Roll your shot on a horizontal table and see if they always stop with the same point up (you will need to mark with a Magic Marker the first time.) If they do, try orienting them with the mark up before firing and see what that does. Could also try to address the cause of non-uniformity.

If always to the same direction, I would check the muzzle crown and maybe redo it.

moose53 · « **Reply #147 on:** April 26, 2012, 01:22:21 PM »

The hook seems random. I increased the skirt thickness over a earlier design to try to make casting thickness consistent, but accuracy is a little worse . I also cut a shell up to detect voids , but did not see any . It is still possibly that I missed it though , because the shells vary in weight more then they should . My next step was to make steel shells to set base line for barrel accuracy ,was very impressed with seacoastartillery's use of steel shells. I will try rolling the lead ones and see if a pattern shows up . Thanks

Artilleryman · « **Reply #148 on:** April 26, 2012, 02:26:21 PM »

Have you tried different powder charges?

moose53 · « **Reply #149 on:** April 26, 2012, 04:43:37 PM »

Yes but not to the point of careful documentation. Mostly was shooting to make noise and have fun. With this new barrel I want to see just how well it will shoot.