Author Topic: Ordered my 45-70 from Mid West Hunters Outlet and what a dissapointment!  (Read 2537 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
Today I received my "new" 45-70 handi rifle from my FFL.

It had two problems and one flaw, first the problems:

The rear sight was missing as well as the attachment points for the sling.  On further examination, there were clear indications, that the rear sight was there originally and then removed.  There was a square delineation with the shape of the rear sight where it used to be (hardened grease?).  Those facts are conducive to think that the rifle left the factory with sights and sling attachments and that they got removed in Mid West Hunters Outlet warehouse.

I did call Midwesthuntersoutlet.com and they refused to do anything about it.  I at least expected for them to send me the rear sight and the sling attachment points.

I will never order anything from them again.

The flaw:

The rifling was terrible.  Going from the chamber to 3/4ths up the barrel, the rifling was normal, maybe a little shallow, but visually OK.  The problem was in the last 1/4th of the barrel, near the muzzle.  The rifling in that part of the barrel was not spiral but were straight lines coming out all the way to the muzzle, with maybe a little twist opposite the "good" rifling.
I proceeded to call H&R and the phone was answered by a very sweet lady.  I did explain her all my tribulations with the above mentioned company and explained to her also about the rifling anomaly.  She immediately proceeded to issue me a  UPS return label and told me that H&R was going to make it right.  That is service!!!

This last part confirms what everybody has been saying all along about the great quality of service by H&R.

Thanks H&R.

Offline gcrank1

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7644
  • Gender: Male
Geesh!
Good news is that you WILL get a nice rifle for just a little more wait.
"Halt while I adjust my accoutrements!"
      ><   ->
We are only temporary caretakers of the past heading toward an uncertain future
22Mag UV / 22LR  Sportster
357Mag Schuetzen Special
45-70  SS Ultra Hunter with UV cin.lam. wood
12ga. 'Ol' Ugly OverKill', Buck barrel c/w  SpeedStock  and swap 28" x Full bird barrel, 1974

Offline Farrier Matt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 67
Man, I hate to hear about your troubles. At least theyre going to make it right. Ive gotten to where I dont order new guns anymore unless I can handle them first, just so I dont have to deal with problems like this.

Offline Jimbo47

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Gender: Male
You might want to check the barrel lug just below the chamber and see if it has the last three or four numbers etched on the lug of the serial number that are stamped into the receiver, just to see if they didn't switch barrels at one time.

They should match if it's the original barrel.
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
Jimbo47,

Yes, I did check the lug and the three last numbers were engraved by hand with one of those electric markers/engravers.  Kind'a strange.

Offline bikerbeans

  • Trade Count: (168)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4070
  • Gender: Male
  • BANDIT - North American Snake Hound
Good to hear H&R is going to take care of you.  Shame they are going to scrap that barrel, would have made a nice shorty. ;D

BB
RIP Tom: Tom Nolan, ( bikerbeans) passed away this afternoon (02-04-2021).

Why be difficult, when with a little extra effort you can be impossible?

Wife's Handis;  300 BLKOUT

MINE:  270W, 308x444, 44 Bodeen, 410 shorty rifled slug gun, 445 SuperMag Shikari, 45 ACP shorty,  45-70 Shikari, 45 Cal Smokeless MZ, 50cal 24" SS Sidekick, 50 cal 24" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Huntsman, 50 cal 26" Sidekick, 50-70 Govt Shikari, Tracker II 20 ga shorty, 20 ga VR Pardner, 20ga USH, 12ga VR NWTF, 12ga Tracker II shorty WITHOUT scope, 12ga USH, 10 ga  Pardner Smoothbore slug gun & 24ga Profino Custom rifled slug gun.

Offline jimbobb55

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 88
  • Gender: Male
I just checked my barrel it has last three numbers 695 and a large P with the number any ideas what the P means?

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
The thought of making a shorty crossed my mind, but it is my first 45/70, so I decided that for starters, it needed to be factory perfect.

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
And about the meaning of the "P"......why don't you call H&R and ask them.  They certainly know.  Mine is marked "BP 180".  Could be the initials of whoever did the original fitting, but that is only a guess.

Offline thejanitor

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (59)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1094
  • Gender: Male
3 or 4 of our handi barrels have the "P" engraved behind the numbers on the under lug. It has been discussed here before somewhere in the threads.
Hope they get you all fixed up, and the warning about the selling company is good to know as well. Thanks  thejanitor

Offline Fred M

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2362
    • Fred The Reloader and Wildcatter
jparedes
This is the worst I ever heared about a barrel, besides mississing parts. I have long quit buying H&R rifles. They are not worse the hazzles.
Fred M
Fred M.
From Alberta Canada.

Offline Casull

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4673
  • Gender: Male
Glad they are taking care of it, but that barrel should have never left the factory.  Sounds like some very bad quality control.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Sourdough

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8150
  • Gender: Male
I ordered a bag of .32 cal bullets.  Could not find them anywhere else.  They said they would use a flat rate box, so I expected shipping to be around $4.00.  No they used a large flat rate box and filled it with little plastic air bags, and charged me $18.00.  I called to complain and they said they had to make sure the box was large enough to protect the contents. 

My thought was why did you not use a padded envelope.

I won't use Midwest again.
Where is old Joe when we really need him?  Alaska Independence    Calling Illegal Immigrants "Undocumented Aliens" is like calling Drug Dealers "Unlicensed Pharmacists"
What Is A Veteran?
A 'Veteran' -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America,' for an amount of 'up to, and including his life.' That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country today who no longer understand that fact.

Offline Jimbo47

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (25)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1304
  • Gender: Male
Never used them, but did a search and the reviews are not good.

Thanks for the heads up!
My culled down Handi's are the 45-70, and then I have a few others to keep it company...357 Mag/Max. .45 LC/.454 Casull Carbine, .243 Ultra, and 20 gauge Tracker II.

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
Today I received my "new" 45-70 handi rifle from my FFL.

It had two problems and one flaw, first the problems:

The rear sight was missing as well as the attachment points for the sling.  On further examination, there were clear indications, that the rear sight was there originally and then removed.  There was a square delineation with the shape of the rear sight where it used to be (hardened grease?).  Those facts are conducive to think that the rifle left the factory with sights and sling attachments and that they got removed in Mid West Hunters Outlet warehouse.

I did call Midwesthuntersoutlet.com and they refused to do anything about it.  I at least expected for them to send me the rear sight and the sling attachment points.

I will never order anything from them again.

The flaw:

The rifling was terrible.  Going from the chamber to 3/4ths up the barrel, the rifling was normal, maybe a little shallow, but visually OK.  The problem was in the last 1/4th of the barrel, near the muzzle.  The rifling in that part of the barrel was not spiral but were straight lines coming out all the way to the muzzle, with maybe a little twist opposite the "good" rifling.
I proceeded to call H&R and the phone was answered by a very sweet lady.  I did explain her all my tribulations with the above mentioned company and explained to her also about the rifling anomaly.  She immediately proceeded to issue me a  UPS return label and told me that H&R was going to make it right.  That is service!!!

This last part confirms what everybody has been saying all along about the great quality of service by H&R.

Thanks H&R.


Today June 30th, the UPS man delivered me my "repaired" rifle.  What a joy: The sights were installed, the swivels were there, so as my Dad taught me many eons ago, I checked the rifling....the same problem as before!!!  I checked and read carefully the "Repair Document" they sent with it and has a part where it says: "....this barrel meets factory spec's." Unbelievable!

I called immediately H&R, and asked the man that answered what were the "spec's" used to check barrels, and he mentioned things such as measuring lands and valley of the rifling, air something for the barrel in general, but nowhere was mentioned visual inspection of the barrel.  He might have not mentioned it during the conversation, but I can't believe they wouldn't do something as basic as that, so it was only a conversation thing.  By the way, there are indications that they did a fire test and is confirmed by the "Repair Document".  Another opportunity missed to check the inside of the barrel......ah! and they also re-chamfered the muzzle target grade.  What a waste of time and equipment for work done in a defective barrel.

This time I took a probe down the barrel from the muzzle end and measure the length which lacks proper rifling, and it is 5 1/2 inches, regrettably, that doesn't leave much play room to make a shorty out of it.

H&R will issue me a new Return Sheet and UPS sticker, so now I'm waiting for that and of course I will be waiting an eternity for my corrected rifle.

H&R needs to implement a Quality Assurance System that takes into consideration the expertise and knowledge of their employees down in the trenches.  That is what Harley Davidson had to do to correct all their quality problems they were going through before the 90's.

H&R, if you are reading this, please research in the internet "Total Quality Management (TQM)".

You are an American Manufacturing Company and we want you to continue being that.  We need the jobs here, not in other countries.

Offline Texbguy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 32
I have been thinking of ordering one of these from a company online. Gosh I would hate to have to go through this hastle.  hmmm

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
textbguy,

For the time and annoyance, I should have bought it from Gander Mountain here in town ($252.00).


Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Quality Assurance is old school.  Factories don't have that anymore.  Quality is supposed to be built in.  Unfortunately the customer ends up doing the final inspection.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
Friday 7/22/2011 I received my Handi for the second time, back from the factory.  It wasn't until today that I had a chance of checking it thoroughly.  Every thing checked fine this time.  Finally I have a shootable Handi.

This back and forth must have cost H&R almost as much or maybe more than what they got paid for the rifle.  Just imagine:  Four UPS trips, a minimum of two hours wages for their repair personnel to fix the rifle twice.  A new set of sights and a new set of sling attachments.  Add to that, half an hour wages for the personnel that answer my phone calls, administration costs and who knows what else.  And why?  Just because they didn't apply a basic Quality Assurance program in their process and didn't create the proper atmosphere for their personnel to be proud of the product they are producing.



Offline Spanky

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (96)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4627
  • Gender: Male
  • USMC Semper Fidelis
Now that you've got a shootable rifle we need a range report and some pics. ;D
 
 
 
Spanky

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
Range here only opens up once a month.  Next session will be August 6th, so until then for the shooting report.

In the setting up part, I installed on it a mercury recoil reducer (http://www.mercuryrecoil.com/) which brought the balance of the rifle just ahead of the trigger guard.  Perfect.

Today I will be shopping for a peep sight system and just found out that Marble's has one similar to the Williams WGRS but with a very practical up-down adjustment mechanism.

Thinking also on a recoil reducer shoulder pad.  I have one of the slip on ones which I have been using on my 7-30 Waters Contender and found to be very effective.  In this case I might want to get the permanent one.

After that........hunting season.  It is upon us now and Archery starts on August 6th in this area (Southern Florida).  Never hunted here in this watery environment.  All my hunting experience has been in Arizona and in Southern California mountains.  Wish I had a hunting buddy with experience to teach me the ways of the swamp.  I guess I'll have to learn by myself.  If there are any takers, I intend to hunt in the Corbett Wild Management Area just north of West Palm Beach.

Offline ratdog

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1000
i was a quality control inspector for a  machine fabrication  plant i rejected many parts that got shipped out any way.this place finally folded up because warranty issues. now looking back i am glad .they waisted my time on there crap. and fighting with management.they would tell to buy of certain parts off and if i didn't they would fire me but i still wouldn't they would get another inspector to buy them off on night shift.

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43300
  • Gender: Male
Today I will be shopping for a peep sight system and just found out that Marble's has one similar to the Williams WGRS but with a very practical up-down adjustment mechanism.


We have two site sponsors that sell peep sights for H&Rs, Skinner and NoDak Spud, ne sure to check them out while shopping.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,228192.0.html

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,214095.msg1099150296.html#msg1099150296



"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline jparedes

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 103
i was a quality control inspector for a  machine fabrication  plant i rejected many parts that got shipped out any way.this place finally folded up because warranty issues. now looking back i am glad .they waisted my time on there crap. and fighting with management.they would tell to buy of certain parts off and if i didn't they would fire me but i still wouldn't they would get another inspector to buy them off on night shift.

That was an uphill battle!!!!  Did you know that 80% of the problems in a facility can be attributed directly to management?

And in the case as you describe it, absolutely un-ethical.