A Cleaning Method for all Cannon Bores including DOM Sleeved or Lined ones.

[seacoastartillery]

A Method for Cleaning and Preserving Cannon Tubes Including Those Which Have DOM Sleeves or Liners

         Double D. on Dec. 20, 2011 on the GBO Mortar and Cannon Board. wrote that Seamless is better, but DOM lined bores just need more attention, that's all or words to that effect.

          The Seacoast boys like many of you out there have been firing and caring for cannon which have DOM sleeves or bore liners since 1973.  Some have been made from DOM entirely. There are thousands of similarly constructed cannons out there in America today.  More than a few well known cannon companies make and sell these every day.

         We at Seacoast Artillery think it is illogical to believe that most cannon makers will suddenly decide to use seamless tubing exclusively,  especially with the cost of seamless being one and a half to two times the cost of DOM.  Further processing to straighten these seamless tubes and to machine their I.D.s  and O.D.s  to make them round, concentric and give them consistent size from one end to the other, also increases cost measurably.

         We wish to establish an acceptable and proper cleaning and preserving procedure which will help purchasers of tubes crafted using DOM mechanical tubing to thoroughly clean the BP salts and other corrosive products of combustion from these DOM bores.

          Then, as an added standard part of the cleaning procedure, we wish to facilitate removal of any corrosive salts which may be lodged in any surface anomaly anywhere in the bore or vent areas.  In modern DOM production, single or double mandrel swaging seals, toughens and smoothes the tube’s I.D. during the bench drawing process and pulling the tubes through a properly lubricated die does a similar job to the O.D.  The in-process inspection procedures which have been added in the past 20 years have made defective welds, porosity and inclusions within the metal of these DOM tubes virtually impossible to escape detection.  Eddy Current crack detection is used continuously and every foot of tube is checked this way at each of the major producers we researched.  Other non-destructive testing methods used are Radiographic, CT-Scanning, Magna-Flux , Dye Penetrant and Ultrasonic Testing.  Also, extremely labor intensive, Microscopic Destructive Testing is used upon multiple layered samples of the tube material  itself, in each batch, mainly to detect non-metallic inclusions. No amount of extra special cleaning can do anything about inclusions; we must rely on the extremely robust and serious quality assurance steps of the manufacturer to eliminate material with these hidden defects from the tube manufacturing process.

      And finally we want to recommend ways to prevent oxidation of any part of the artillery tube.  We think the clearest way to convey these recommendations is to prepare a list of reasonable and simple steps to follow which will provide the best chance to accomplish complete cleaning and preservation of any artillery tube, including those made from DOM mechanical tubing. 

        These listed steps are suggested and you are encouraged to consider following them.  They are NOT mandatory and no free cannons will be shipped to you merely for using these steps!  The goal of this cleaning method is to prevent visible or hidden corrosion or oxidation from occurring in all BP cannon bores including those with DOM sleeves or liners.

A Cleaning Procedure for Black Powder Cannons

Soon After Firing the Cannon:


1.   For small cannons, place breech end in a bucket of warm, soapy water (dish soap works great).  Scrub the vent 7 or 8 strokes with a pipe cleaner that has stiff wire or plastic bristles reinforcing and scrubbing fibers in it.


2.   Piston stroke a tight fitting cannon sponge up and down bore so soapy water is drawn into bore.  Give it 20 strokes.  Spin the sponge several times at bottom of bore.  A brush is an excellent crud remover.  It is recommended if you have a rifled bore.


3.   Drain soapy water from bore and rinse with WARM tap water.  Drain.



4.   BEFORE the bore dries, apply a Moisture Displacing Oil to every area of the bore and vent.  Allow the oil to seep into every pore and recess for 10 to 15 minutes. Wipe oil and moisture from bore and re-apply oil.



5.    If you plan on shooting the cannon again within 4 months, you're done.  If you are putting her away for more than 4 months, after wiping the oil and moisture from bore, apply a coat of your favorite gun oil.



6.   Perform a visual inspection of bore after cleaning using a strong light.  A double check several days after cleaning with a clean patch to detect any rust is a good idea and you should consider having a periodic lab inspection done to detect completely hidden defects.   

:                   

The reason for WARM water rather than HOT water is this:

We don’t want to heat up the tube so that it dries quickly.  We want any salts or corrosion causing compounds to remain in solution with the residual water.  That way, when you apply the Moisture Displacing Oil, it displaces the solution of salts and residual water,  which you subsequently wipe from the bore and then apply fresh oil.   

Additional hints from experienced and savvy members:

1. More detail as to how to clean the vent (I like Brownell's aggressive cotton pipe cleaners with the plastic fibers in them)?      Incorporated.
 
 2. Very hot water can cause flash rusting.     Use WARM water.   
 
 3. Why use soap when plain water is a great BP solvent?  Because it makes water 'wetter.' and it causes water to stick to surfaces rather than bead.  It helps water get under previous oil that might be present, emulsifying it along with BP gunk in the bore.    Good explanation.
 
 4. Along with a sponge, a brush can be useful for removing stubborn gunk.      Incorporated.
 
 5. Might want to add a visual inspection step after cleaning. Also maybe a double-check with a patch or something a couple days after cleaning to be sure that cleaning was effective (no evidence of rust).      Good to do.
 
 6. It's good to wash off the mop once or twice during cleaning.     We do this while cleaning after each shot in the field; if you have a full size bucket of soapy water for cleaning per procedure, this should not be necessary.
 
 7. Don't know that it's within the scope of your procedure, but might mention to clean oil out of the bore before firing next time.    Good idea; we always do this.
 
     Thanks for taking the time to write a procedure. It should be useful for many folks.      You're welcome.


Some Moisture Displacing Oils:

Brownell's Water Displacing Oil
Hoppe's #9 MDL
WD-40
Du-Lite's RG-55
3-In-1 MDO

[shred]

Cool post, but some of the text is microscopic in Firefox

[Spuddy]

OK here goes......what is DOM?  The DOM I am familiar with lives in Pa.

[PaulB]

OK here goes......what is DOM?  The DOM I am familiar with lives in Pa.

"drawn over mandrel"

[Spuddy]

Thanks Paul!

[Double D]

SeaCoast Artillery has been talking to me an others about these procedures for a while.  I agree with the process outlined for  cleaning cannons.  It good, and will work for what ever type cannon you have.  I use a variation of the process, using antifreeze with all its corrosion and rust inhibitors built in, instead of soapy water.  For oiling I use Napa ATF4.  It also contains rust  and corrosion inhibitors.   I learned about the benefits of these two products  many years a go from the  writings of Paul Mathews note black powder rifle shooter and writer.

I also agree about not using hot water.  Hot water and more specifically steam is believed to be the source of the condensation that occurs in the inclusions to start the corrosion process.

 Inspection of the DOM  liner should be mandatory.   You should know where the seam is in the barrel and you should inspect it often.  Any time you find staining or discoloration on the seam you should have the tube  scientifically  inspected for inclusion deterioration. Even without staining or discoloration, you should periodically have the tube scientifically inspected for inclusion deterioration.

As much  as I respect the opinions of Mike and Tracy at SeaCoast Artillery I must respectfully disagree with their endorsement of DOM-drawn over mandrel tubing.  The cleaning process listed does not mitigate the issue of inclusion failures in DOM and the documented failure of these inclusions in DOM in cannons.  Modern manufacturing standards go a long way to eliminated these flaws , but does not eliminate them either.  Further there is no way to identify a cannon that has liner made to old standards and one made with DOM to the  newer standards.  Problem is not a short term problem.  It is a problem that rears it's ugly head many years down the line.   

Further both DOM and Seamless both need bores machined for roundness and smoothness. Neither are round or smooth as is.

The American Artillery Association's recent up date to their construction standards now state specifically that seamless tubing should be used for liners.  I don't know if the  N-SSA will up date their standards. The recent  death of several very knowledgeable gentlemen in the field and the breaking away from the organization by other  knowledgeable folks my have some effect on the up.  I look forward to seeing the standards put forth by the new cannon shooting organization formed by our own Artilleryman, Matt Switlik and others. 

Until that august group of cannoneers endorses the use of DOM for liners, then I won't either. I will defer to their superior wisdom.
 
If you have a cannon with a DOM liner, if you follow the instructions written by SeaCoast Artillery for cleaning, and include a routine of visual inspection of the seam, including periodic scientific inspection, you should have no problem shooting cannon with a DOM liner.

[dominick]

 
...  The cleaning process listed does not mitigate the issue of inclusion failures in DOM and the documented failure of these inclusions in DOM in cannons... 
 

Douglas,  Do you have any of these incidents of failure documents or know where specifically I can obtain these?  Dom

[Double D]

 
...  The cleaning process listed does not mitigate the issue of inclusion failures in DOM and the documented failure of these inclusions in DOM in cannons... 
 

Douglas,  Do you have any of these incidents of failure documents or know where specifically I can obtain these?  Dom

I no longer have the Artilleryman Articles having sent all my copies to Cannonmn.

But the failures as I i have said anumber of times before  have have been reported over the years in The Artileryman.  I think if you were to contact Matt Switlik personally he would point you some of the articles and reports on the problem.  I believe some of the articles were written by him.   If you contact The Artilleryman they should be able to provide additional input.  The late Peter Jorgensen former Editor of The Artilleryman was the first person to bring this problem to my attention.  He may have written on the subject also.

 

[Double D]

The Fall 1985 issue of Artilleryman describes a failure of a gun at a fireworks display. The gun that failed was cast by  Lapan and manufactured by Cook's Aresenal as a 3/4 scale third model James that is described as having a "seamless steel safety  liner of 1018 steel, drawn over mandrel construction with a yield strength of 85,000 psi".  There was some question as to what blew that gun up as it was supposedly only firing blanks.  A technical investigation of that failure ws made, but at the  time of the printing the report was not yet released.


 

[seacoastartillery]

     I could write something really snarky about Double D.'s response like this:  He was the kid who sat in the grass by himself in grade school waiting in vain to be picked for a kick-ball team; his t-shirt read: "Does Not Play Well With Others", but I won't do that because he's a friend of mine.  Yes, I realize that this is a slippery slope! 

     Seriously DD, Dominic beat me to it.  I think the membership is smart enough to assess the risks, if any exist, of buying a tube made from DOM tube or lined with DOM tube or sleeved with DOM tube if they had ALL the information about it's qualities.

     Your suggestion about visually inspecting the tube after cleaning is a good one also suggested by Victor3 whose opinion I also respect.  It will be incorporated as Step 6.

     Could someone please find a copy of the Artilleryman magazine,  Vol. 4, No. 4?  The article is titled, "New Jersey accident and need for seamless liners".  The entire article from about 30 years ago should be published, not just selected portions, with appropriate credit, of course to the author AND the magazine.  We really need to read this one to learn more about what drove the call for seamless.  We need a bright light to be shown on ALL aspects of this issue. 

   
Tracy and Mike

[ironball]

Extremists on either side of any issue tend to be ignored by the vast majority in the middle. One can point to failures of every device known to man, but I wouldn't tell anyone to stop using them all.

[dominick]

I have the Fall 1985 article in front of me.  It is on page 6.  I noticed several interesting things upon reading this. 

1. "...which had cast the barrel around the steel liner." 
 
2. "...the lab would be asked to look for traces of modern smokeless powder or pyrotechnic powder or anything that would raise pressures high enough to cause a tube failure of this magnitude."   
 
3. The article claims the barrel was made of 1018 with 85,000 yield strength.  1018 does not have a yield that high.  The steels that do have yields that high, would have a carbon content that would cause hydrogen embrittlement if used as a casting core.  This alone would cause catastrophic failure. 
 
4. ..."Cook said he personally tested the cannon with a one pound charge of 4f and a zinc ball..."   

Does anyone have the results of this investigation? It would be interesting to see what occurred.   Do you know of any other incidents of failure specifically caused by the failure of DOM tubing? 
 
Dom

[Double D]

 
     Seriously DD, Dominic beat me to it.  I think the membership is smart enough to assess the risks, if any exist, of buying a tube made from DOM tube or lined with DOM tube or sleeved with DOM tube if they had ALL the information about it's qualities.

     
   
Tracy and Mike

Then do I quote you as saying there is no risk using DOM?  You are most welcome to assume the liability for that statement, I won't.

Victor has stood his ground and correctly so when he points out the N-SSA rule stating thAT the tube  must meet minimum ANSI standards is vague...he right, it is very vague, by modern standards. But to condemn that standard without presenting what the standard is, is  wrong. 

He is right that different steels have different standards but we have never seen  a minimum ANSI standard for a basic  steel seamless tubing and without that standard we can't say the stnadrd was or is wrong.  N-SSA apparently tought it was right when they made the rule.  .  Steel tubing made 30 years ago may have been made to what ever standard was in force then but fails to met the more modern and more specific standards of today.  That may indeed be a worry.

The same theory applies to Welded seam tubing.  The standards 30 year ago are outdated.  Modern standards  are much stricter and modern manufacturing process make the product more fault free.  But like Victor pointed out  in the ANSI standard debate there are different standards for different applications and steel types.    If you buy a welded seam liner for a cannon  you better specify that the steel meet the minimum standrs and be certified inspected  flaw free steel.   If you buy a cannon with a welded seam liner, you better get that written certification.   That steel is going to cost  more money the steel that is not not certified flaw free. 

What do you do about an older used cannon with a seamless liner, how do you know . 

Sorry guys I will stay with the extremist  like AAA or Switlik,who have the skill, experience and knowledge to back up their statements. When and until they  state that a certain type of welded seam steel liner is safe to use as a liner, I will continue to recommend against welded seam  liners.   

It's called CYA.

[dominick]

I have been digging through my old Artilleryman magazines in search of a follow up to the above accident and found this interesting write-up concerning cast over sleeve barrels.  Artilleryman magazine Vol.7. No.1 Winter 1985.  Page 2.
 
By the late Peter Jorgensen.
   This is his quotes from a article he read in Muzzle Blasts magazine Oct, Nov, Dec, 1985 from James Kelly, "a metallurgist with lengthy professional experience."
 
"Reading the Kelly articles, one can immediately see the flaws in casting cannon barrels around a steel liner vs. sleeving the gun by having the liner inserted after casting.
When you pour molten iron around a steel liner all sorts of unpredictable changes in specification take place within the steel.  Yield strength and tensile strength are substantially altered depending on how hot the steel got and how long it cooled and a lot of other things.
 
We've been preaching repeatly that the only way to maintain spec from the start is to bore out the gun and sleeve it with a liner of known material.  South Bend replicas, South [sic] Bend, Ind., is the only major manufacturer now using this process and can line original guns of suspect virture."
 
Dom

[Double D]

Actually Dom, Jorgensen's editorial makes it appear the better source for information on this subject might be the Muzzleblast.  I had some of those years ago but they have long disappeared.

[Cat Whisperer]

One's perspective regarding Seamless vs. DOM vs. everything else is established in the few microseconds after witnessing a cannon explode.

Over build it.

Keep it clean.

Inspect it.

Learn what happened/ what could happen and what it takes to keep it from happing again.

Do whatever it takes to keep it safe.

[Swampman]

We take ours to the car wash and stick the wand down the barrel.

[ironball]

Then do I quote you as saying there is no risk using DOM?  You are most welcome to assume the liability for that statement, I won't.

Sorry, but I think this statement makes absolutley no sense. Everything in life has some risk.
 
BTW, what liability are you talking about? Opinions expressed on an internet message board are just that. CYA? It's not like someone can sue you.
 
Somebody needs to lay off the caffene.

[phsarge]

OK I been thinking about something ( Me thinking you may want to run for cover) there is a product called ultra bore coat. I run this in all my rifles, pistols, shotguns etc. The product is a ceramic that essentially is designed to seal the metal and reduce fouling and cleaning time. Now I see what both sides are saying on this and I am not trying to choose sides as this may have benefits for everyone. Would sealing the metal with a coating that can not be removed and would keep the black powder salts and such be of help to someone using DOM? the stuff is clear so it would not hinder inspections. It would make newer tubes last longer.
PHsarge

[ironball]

Probably work as well as Bore Butter, or my homemade lard-beeswax formula.   
 
If you keep the air and moisture out, you won't have oxidation. What seacoastartillery posted is nothing more than standard muzzleloading cleaning procedures that shooters have always used, with the moisture displacing lubricant added. Standard procedure fror rifles and shotguns also.
 
One or two people here are so paranoid, I have to wonder if they actually shoot their guns.  Maybe they just look at them?

[GGaskill]

... that is described as having a "seamless steel safety liner of 1018 steel, drawn over mandrel construction with a yield strength of 85,000 psi."

 In all my research (admittedly not exhaustive) I have found lots of people claiming to build things using seamless DOM tubing but I have never found anyone claiming to make seamless DOM tubing.  They make seamless and they make DOM but not both in the same piece.

[Victor3]

"Seamless DOM" is of course a misnomer. Unfortunately, even some who make their living selling metal use the term...
 
http://www.industrialmetalsales.com/DOM_Steel_Round_Tubing.html
 
 For Probably >90% of folks buying a hunk of tube, if there's no bump, flat or dip where the weld is, they call it seamless and it doesn't matter to them if it has a hidden seam.

[Victor3]

 If one is going to worry about inclusions and voids in DOM tubing, he should also be worried about them in seamless, or even bored solid stock. Fact of the matter is, they exist to one degree or another in all steel. You may be able to find tubing bored from bar stock that was manufactured using the vacuum induction melt process (which removes most voids) but that won't be inexpensive material. And if it's carbon steel, it's still going to rust anyway.
 
 Unless you happen to get a piece of DOM that should never have left the manufacturer (cracked, incomplete weld, incomplete finishing of the welded area), any defect is going to be localized and very small. It's not going to run for any length along the tube, allowing corrosion to spread to the point where you have a condition that's going to cause it to peel apart like a banana when the cannon is fired. Neither is a small surface defect going to spread very far down below the surface of the steel like a cancer where it can't be detected visually. It's going cause what any rust does; a big ugly pit.
 
 That said, there will be a higher number of defects in a piece of DOM tubing (due to the welding process) than a piece of truely seamless tubing. Also, machining the surface off of DOM can expose weld defects that were smoothed over and hidden during drawing/forming.
 
 Howeverer, as I said previously, seamless tubing (as well as bar stock) is never going to be free of voids/inclusions either. Barrels made from them need to be inspected just as carefully as other. Any worry about DOM should be equally applied to any steel barrel as far as I'm concerned because while surface defects (including machining defects, BTW) will help start the process, corrosion alone is going to cause more (and larger) voids than anything else.
 
 Clean and preserve your cannon's bore like you would on any other BP gun and visually inspect it for corrosion frequently. There is no need for any type of special NDT to detect corrosion. If your barrel is of suspect material, by all means have it evaluated at a lab (if it's worth the cost). If not, cut it in half or weld the bore shut and put it out by the flagpole.
 
 I would be very surprised to hear that any cannon barrel failure was found (by careful, scientific evaluation) to be due exclusively to the use of correctly manufactured DOM tubing. I suspect that those who have examined cannon barrel failures where DOM has been used correctly (if there even are any such failures/examinations) have simply speculated that it may have been the main factor.
 
 If one is concerned about the safety of a liner for a new cannon, why not purchase material that has been evaluated, honed and chromed? It's available if you want to pay for it...
 
http://www.scotindustries.com/index.php

[Cat Whisperer]

Then do I quote you as saying there is no risk using DOM?  You are most welcome to assume the liability for that statement, I won't.

Sorry, but I think this statement makes absolutley no sense. Everything in life has some risk.
 
BTW, what liability are you talking about? Opinions expressed on an internet message board are just that. CYA? It's not like someone can sue you.
 
Somebody needs to lay off the caffene.

WE are simply taking responsibility for the validity of the statements made here - when something is done wrong with cannons it has the potential to kill people.   Too much caffene?  No.

[seacoastartillery]

      Victor3 and Double D. should be happy to know that step 6 on inspection has been added.
 
      As far as Double D.'s assertion contained in this quote:  "Then do I quote you as saying there is no risk using DOM?  You are most welcome to assume the liability for that statement, I won't.",  If everyone would carefully read what I wrote, which is immediately below, you must conclude that I never wrote that nor did I even hint at that.
 
                       Seacoast quote in question:  "Seriously DD, Dominic beat me to it.  I think the membership is smart enough to assess the risks, if any exist, of buying a tube made from DOM tube or lined with DOM tube or sleeved with DOM tube if they had ALL the information about it's qualities."
 
      Our goal here, in case ANYONE missed it, was to provide the membership with a logical and effective way to clean and preserve ANY cannon bore after firing.  THAT'S IT, nothing else, no promotion of any particular tube construction.  Heck, if we were promoting a type of tube construction, don't you think we would be smart enough to promote what we use, which is drilled and reamed from alloy rounds??
 
      So use the procedure or not, we really don't care at this point.
 
      However,  we are not completely done here.  Because their seems to be so much interest in seamless tube, we have taken on the extra responsibility of finding out who in the United States is providing and installing sleeves made from this material.  We have called all but 4 cannon makers on the GBO list so far and none of the makers we called use seamless.  However,  I am still hopeful that we can find one tomorrow.  We will update this thread with the results on Friday or Saturday.
 
 Tracy and Mike
 
       

[ironball]

OMG! They are all selling us pipe bombs??? The Horror!!!
Seriously, No reason to sweat, any reputable builder knows more about his product than just about anyone else.

[Double D]

     
    We have called all but 4 cannon makers on the GBO list so far and none of the makers we called use seamless.  However,  I am still hopeful that we can find one tomorrow.  We will update this thread with the results on Friday or Saturday.
 
 Tracy and Mike
 
     

And that proves what!

[Victor3]

 
      Our goal here, in case ANYONE missed it, was to provide the membership with a logical and effective way to clean and preserve ANY cannon bore after firing.  THAT'S IT, nothing else, no promotion of any particular tube construction. 

 M&T,
 
 Sorry that I got side tracked with the DOM thing.
 
 Your procedure is useful and I believe it should be a sticky. I've turned two guys onto BP artillery who had never owned any type of BP gun. One was new to firearms and didn't even know how to clean his CF rifle bore correctly. Many others who've seen my cannons/mortars fire a shot immediately want to get one of their own. It would be a shame for anyone to spend money on a cannon and have the bore ruined by rust.
 
 Apart from the seam/seamless question, corrosion in a cannon bore can become a safety hazard for other reasons. For one, rust in a neglected bore can get bad enough that a close-fitting projectile may jam upon firing, causing a pressure spike.
 
 One thing I find helpful for inspecting cannon bores is a low-powered LED light that's small enough to drop down to the bottom of the bore.
 
 These are perfect for any bore over 1.06". They stay on after you squeeze them and at $1, they're less expensive than the battery they come with if you were to buy one at Radio Shack.    Smaller ones are available, but some only stay lit while you're squeezing them. You don't want one that's too bright either.
 
http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-keylight.html

[Cannoneer]

Your procedure is useful and I believe it should be a sticky.

I agree with V, (it rhymes) that this topic would be of benefit to both newbies and some old pros who've picked up bad habits, but I'm sure that he actually meant to say that it should be attached to an already existing sticky like References, or Safe Loads & Construction etc.
I couldn't do this with many, but Victor's mind and mine operate on such a similar wavelength that I feel safe in clarifying things on his behalf.        

[seacoastartillery]

   Cannoneer, you are spot on with your comment.  Victor, don't worry about it, I guess we can consider the Seamless/DOM topic to be associated or related.   I would not hold your breath until the cleaning procedure makes it to a sticky.  Double D. is still mad at me for something.  However, he and all other lovers of Seamless Tubing should be happy with the results of the last four calls that I made to the GBO Cannon Makers.  They are listed in the order in which I called them.
 
 
 Steen Cannons        I talked with Marshal Steen who says he will sleeve cannon bores down to about 1/2 original size (C.W. Field Arty) with DOM Seamless Extruded Tubing.  I asked him to explain that description.  He said that this is true Seamless Tubing without any welding.  It is special order tubing in that the  'Drawn Over Mandrel'  process is applied to it to straighten out all the incongruities of it's as produced, dimensional makeup.  He said for a 1.5" bore size the sleeve thickness would be .25".  Email him with all the dimensions of your tube you want sleeved and with the Sleeve Bore Dia. you want for a quote.
 
Historical Ordnance Works       I talked with Thomas Bailey who Mike and I met in Mansfield, Ohio at the 2006 Artillery Show.  I remember well his kind comments about our 100 Pdr. Parrott Rifle.  Anyway, he was extremely busy, but said his company could sleeve almost any cannon bore with whatever type of sleeve the customer wanted.  Email your tube dimensions and what material you want for a sleeve and the sleeve I.D. for a quote.
 
 
Clover Machine       I spoke to David and, interestingly enough, he makes the "Probing Points" for manufacturers in the Seamless Tubing Industry.  He says they are not made from any exotic material, just regular steel.  He described the process as basically spearing a very hot round of low carbon steel which is in the 'plastic state'.  A hole results and then a variety of heavy rolls form the tube from the outside.  It is repeatedly pierced, rolled and extruded until it is formed into a tube.  He did say, however that the resulting product is so iffy dimensionally that he would much rather drill a low carbon round to a reasonable depth, and use That as the liner rather than use seamless tubing as it is produced.  Call him with your requirements for a quote.
 
      Well, three out of sixteen ain't bad.  Please remember that Seacoast is not recommending any of the makers, nor are we recommending either Seamless or DOM Mechanical Tubing.  It's up to YOU to determine what you want and how much you are willing to pay for this service.
 
 Mike and I did this survey as a service to the membership at GBO Mortar and Cannon and expect absolutely nothing in return.
 
 Tracy and Mike