bead issue

[Ol BW]

I have been contemplating some choke work and thought I would go to the pattern board once again.  I guess I had missed this before.  I shot Federal Heavyweight with flitecontol wads as I had a couple left from last time.  This time I figured out it is shooting high and left, which explaines why I thought the pattern was off.  The last test I did I thought the big hole in the target was from the wad!  This time with a close backstop of dirt I could tell that was the shot column.  This does not suprise me since I had to replace the bead on this shortened barrel with a tru-glow stick on.  Anyone know how high the bead is on a 20 ga.?

[tcrace]

The bead height from the barrel on my 20 gauge Pardner is 0.132". Hope that helps.

[quickdtoo]

My 20ga Pardner bead is .118" tall, thread size should be 3-56.

Tim

[Ol BW]

That's a pretty wide swing guys.  What kind of barrel contour do you have and does choke affect it?  I am assuming a tighter choke would make the outer contour of the barrel more tapered, necessitating a taller bead, but that may be my rifle roots showing!  Of course, since my barrel is a full choke that has been cut shorter, it may not be like anything y'all got.
 
Any suggestions, tips or snide remarks would be appreciated!

[quickdtoo]

Mine's modified. I think from previous discussions H&R/NEF have used different height beads over the years, not just height, but diameter which will affect height, you can always tweak the barrel to change POI too.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,88522.msg535464.html#msg535464

[Ol BW]

Thanks for the link Quick!  It was an interesting thread.  I have heard about doing that in a shooting magazine before.  Thanks for jogging my memory!  Sometimes you have to hear it from someone else to find the right solution to a problem.  Other times you have to chase the wrong idea around before you realize what will fix the problem!  When I get this little gun lined out I am gonna try to get it all put together and post the details.  I plan on making it a dedicated turkey gun complete with camo and sling swivles.  You think anyone would be interested in that?

[quickdtoo]

I was, and satisified that need. 

Tim

[gcrank1]

Remember, they with shoot to different POI off the bench than they do offhand.

[Ol BW]

Gcrank, I was shooting from a sitting position, like when I am hunting.  I am gonna shoot a few more patterns to make sure I'm not pulling the pattern off.

[gcrank1]

A shotgun is made to be fired from standing and place the pattern where youre looking. Anything that affects the recoil impulse from that, like your seated position and the torquing you put on the gun will change the POI from being 'centered'. This happens with heavy kicking CF rifles too.
Your test is valid for you, for sure! If you find that it goes, say high left, you compensate and make it work. For me, I wouldnt tweak a barrel if the POI is that seated position, then its only good for that alone.

[quickdtoo]

I'd tweak it or even add sights being a dedicated turkey gun since turkeys are normally shot from a sitting position, then there's no figuring in kentucky windage in the heat of the moment, aim and shoot specially with tight shooting Flitecontrol ammo. 

Tim

I plan on making it a dedicated turkey gun complete with camo and sling swivles. 

[gcrank1]

I guess I should have said,'in my experience', sitting on the ground in a blind, etc. and not knowing just where the critter will come from, Ive found myself having to twist and go into some funny contortions, even change shoulders, to get a shot. With that amount of variables to mounting the arm, and the change in recoil impulse and all I would expect a change in POI. Ive told myself 'no shot' unless Im really behind the gun anymore and hope I can stick with it..........then along will come that trophy of a lifetime, I suppose  .
So, for me, to tweak for one given field position in a world of dynamics such as I experience, when I can hold Kentucky Windage or Tennessee Elevation on an otherwise center shootin' piece is what I want.
As always, do what works for you  .......

[quickdtoo]

I've killed a lot of toms, never from a blind, just sitting against a tree or in front of ground cover that breaks up my sillouette and I almost always knew where the bird was coming from in general since they usually answer my calls, I've had to change positions to keep a bird in front of me as he comes in and negotiates around brush and such, but they don't always come in to my anticipated shooting lane, but a good setup will allow you to move when the bird can't see you hopefully. The shot can be rested over my knee or just offhand while sitting, have even had to switch to offside when a bird shows up quiet and unexpected, just the querks of the spring turkey hunting, they still ended up going home with me.  My point of aiming the shot like rifle is particularly important with tight shooting loads like Flitecontrol ammo provides, what looks like a great pattern at 30-35yds may be real tight at 15-20yds, and a mistake in POA (forgetting the kentucky adjustment) will bite ya, and with a single shot, there won't be a second chance as with a double or repeater. 

Tim

[Ol BW]

Sometimes you are lucky to get a FIRST chance at a bird! 

So, for me, to tweak for one given field position in a world of dynamics such as I experience, when I can hold Kentucky Windage or Tennessee Elevation on an otherwise center shootin' piece is what I want.

Point well taken Gcrank.  This is not a center shooting piece in any position from my experience.  The previous owner sawed the end of the barrel off which I think has alot to do with the pattern.

Quick, your right about that Flite Control wad.  That picture I posted above is at about 15 yards and it's like a rifle!  30 yds and it's still tight!  Only problem is I have a hard time finding it on a regular basis locally.
 
When I find some more I am gonna practice a little before I tweak any. . .

[jpshaw]

I have found that smaller gauge Pardners shoot high.  The smaller the gauge the higher they pattern.  Sounds normal given the chamber is the same diameter in 12 gauge as it is in .410 however, the muzzle varies a lot.  My 12 ga 27.5 inch barrel is pretty centered but my 22 inch 20 gauge throws the pattern a little high.  Need some Kentucky elevation.

[SHOOTALL]

Get a red dot !
I have hunted turkeys most of my life with several types of guns. You can change ammo and change POA . If you want to be good with a gun shoot it from many positions at many distances. I have had to lean around a tree and shoot off handed from a sitting position, ever had one tom call and a quiet one try slide in from another direction . Learn to shoot the gun by knowing where it points not trying to aim so much. To that end place a large cardboard sheet or bed sheet or something similar out as a target. Bring the gun up to your cheek and shoulder and fire with out aiming so much. after 10 shots you will see where the gun is shooting for that load . Now you can add aiming knowing where the gun shoots.

[Ol BW]

Yes guys, I am begining to think that practice is what this gun needs as much as anything.  I notice that when I bring the gun up to my cheek, I can see the barrel in my sight picture.  I feel like if I can practice on getting down on the stock like I do with my rifle, this might solve the problem. 
 
Now if I can just find some more shells. . .

[Winter Hawk]

Seeing that it's a dedicated turkey gun, you could take some off the comb of the stock to get your face down so you're seeing less barrel.

-Kees-

[jpshaw]

Of course, since my barrel is a full choke that has been cut shorter, it may not be like anything y'all got.

If your barrel has been cut (more then two inches) there is no choke at all left in it.  I'm quite impressed that you're getting that tight of a pattern solely from the Flite control wad. 

[Ol BW]

JP I dont know how long it used to be, I guess I could call H&R to see if they can tell me.  I measured the inside diameter with a caliper and it seems to be close to modified restriction.  I compared the reading I got with a chart I found online showing what the choke measurements were considered within each label.  I cannot remember the measurements I got, but of course there is only .010 - .015 difference between Full and Mod.   
 
http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm

Here is another choke chart from Colonial below.
 
 

[jpshaw]

Hey BW, if it's shooting tight lets not worry about it.  I just might have to find some flite control for my 12 and 20.  Both are modified, which is fine but sometimes in the latter part of squirrel season a full would be nice.

[cwlongshot]

Get a red dot !

I agree!!  Way back when I was teaching my wife to shoot/hunt. We had big problems with the shotgun. She just cannto get the hang of keeping her cheek on the stock so constantly shoots high. Thankfully, she dosen't really like shooting bird sans Turkeys! SO, I cured the problem by adding a AimPoint to her barrel! Works like a charm!!!
 
CW

[SHOOTALL]

Yes guys, I am begining to think that practice is what this gun needs as much as anything.  I notice that when I bring the gun up to my cheek, I can see the barrel in my sight picture.  I feel like if I can practice on getting down on the stock like I do with my rifle, this might solve the problem. 
 
Now if I can just find some more shells. . .

Stand facing a mirror and bring the gun up and look down the bbl. Do it with eyes shut then open and see where you are pointing . Over time you can pratice until you are looking down the bbl and pointing where you are looking. Another thing is mount the gun and follow the line where a wall and cieling meet in rooms it helps get you to swing smooth as the mirror helps get the mount smooth and so you don't take your eyes off the target/turkey. You don't need as many shells to get good