Author Topic: Building my Split Trail Cairrage: Please help answer questions as I go! (Read 7792 times)

Indygunworks · « **on:** March 08, 2013, 12:42:42 PM »

one small accomplishment today.... with the hubs lined w/ iron, i had time for my first attempt at an axle box.... the wood came from 30 year old cherry or ash, i dont know which. it was in a 8x8x10 foot piece and looked crappy. I used a bandsaw, a jointer, and a planer to get everything together.... once i was pretty deep into it i ran into a wormy spot which i cut out, making my end product of an axle not quite sqare but pretty close.

I used a daido blad on a table saw to cut the groove for my axle. and 10 2 inch wood screws will keep it from rotating. there are 5 biscuts above and 5 below the axle and about 6 oz of wood glue being compressed. axle will be 36 inch's wide after i trim the glue off the edges and roughly a 5 x5 square. the axle is offset 1 inch below the centerline. this i am hoping will get the barrel higher, which will put it in the smaller width of the wheel making the barrel look bigger and hopefully keeping the project from ending up feeling "small"

anyways, here is my one crappy cell phone pic.... feel free to comment or start offering tips for the rest of the build.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2013, 07:17:02 PM »

Thank you for sharing the picture. It's a start and everything has to start somewhere.

flagman1776 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:13:17 AM »

Looking good!

Double D · « **Reply #3 on:** March 09, 2013, 03:55:31 AM »

Here is a tip. Instead making anew post every day keep adding to your original post. That way your entire project will be in one place and can be linked in the stickies to serve as reference for others in the future.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #4 on:** March 09, 2013, 04:31:13 AM »

Ill do a complete build thread.... just thought i would share a bit. Ill hold the rest of it off til its done.

Double D · « **Reply #5 on:** March 09, 2013, 06:17:58 AM »

No, don't hold until your done, post in one thread as you go along. Post your progress as you do each step so other can see. Your post will have more detail and will provide a lot more ideas for others to use to build there own carriage and gun.

If you wait until you are done then you will just post a synopsis. We are interested in what you are building. We also have a great and perhaps greater interest in how you build.

flagman1776 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 09, 2013, 10:47:53 AM »

This post is a fine beginning. Just add the steps as you do them.

The Jeff · « **Reply #7 on:** March 09, 2013, 12:01:04 PM »

I second the post pictures and an explanation of what your doing as you go along! It definitely helps others, I don't know how much stuff I've learned by perusing the build threads.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #8 on:** March 10, 2013, 12:16:40 PM »

Until i start the build thread, here is an update

skratch · « **Reply #9 on:** March 10, 2013, 01:22:24 PM »

Looking good ! Keep em coming,,,,

Indygunworks · « **Reply #10 on:** March 11, 2013, 04:52:17 AM »

Onto the next item. What is the best method to cut my trails out?

Here is a glance at the wood

I have a few options. I can travel a good ways with it and use what someone is telling me is a HUGE bandsaw.
I can try and find a 3 inch long blade for my jig saw, but its a fairly cheap jig saw and may or may not be up to the task (i would probably buy 4 blades and use 2 per trail to keep them sharp.
I can use my sawsaw but my concern would be keeping the guard against the wood to make sure my cut is perpendicular.

Also, they are currently 2.5 inch's wide, i can plane them down to 2 inch's if i need to or if you guys think it will look better. I am sure metal strapping will be cheaper. it would be roughly 32 pass's per board through the planer and will increase the chance that i get a little to carried away and cut them down to far.

If i stay w/ 2.5 inch's wide, then the resale value MIGHT be higher because someone could use the cairrage on a much bigger gun and just change the wheels to something larger if they want to use a larger barrel

Share some wisdom here

Indygunworks · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2013, 09:08:17 AM »

found some guys who will plane my boards down to 2 inch's, i think i will move forward with that if there isnt any objection to that here.....

as i looked at the way this was going together i began to understand zulu's advice of "margin of error" w/ 2 inch wide boards it will be much easier to get the spacing to look appropriate.

KABAR2 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:06:06 AM »

As Requested:
Indy don't be afraid of taking lots of photo's usually the more the better....
here is an example of one of my threads on building a cannon.....
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,240309.msg1099373449.html#msg1099373449
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,248479.msg1099443215.html#msg1099443215
.
As far as cutting the trails for your cannon I think you will not be pleased with either the results of a zig saw or saws all.... it is too easy to have them angle the cut and with some hard woods I have seen these type of blades follow the grain.... a good band saw is the way to go even if you have to enlist the aid of a wood shop to do it the end result will be worth it... oak is not cheap.... If I were doing these up in N.Y. I would take them to a friends lumber yard he has a band saw with a 2" wide blade.... I might even scew the two boards together and cut both at the same time so they would both be the exactly same ,,,,

KABAR2 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:08:09 AM »

How wide are your trunnions? of they are over 2" they are going to lood a little odd sticking out from the cheeks, also that's alot of wood to shave away...

Indygunworks · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »

trunions are a bit over 2 1/4 inch's, but if they were to be recessed i had planned on using devcon steel to build up the trunion so it fits flush with the outside. at 2 inch's they would stick out if i didnt space the cheeks to make them flush....

i think its all a moot point now since i am going to pay 40 bucks and have the boards planed down to 2 inch's.... it will probably look better anyways since the wheels are 2 inch's wide, and will keep the thing from being as heavy... my transoms will still be 2.5 inch's thick though to make drilling the through hole easier and less work to plane the boards down.

being 2 inch's thick i will have around 3/4 of an inch to play with when bolting everything up.

the only other option is to plane them down to 2 1/4 and have a buddy of mine laser cut my steel strapping to 2 1/4 wide, but that will take the cost of the metal from 77 dolars to close to 150 and the edges will be sharp so i will have to sand down all of the edges... this would also only give me 1/16th of an inch of play on either side when setting my cheek spacing, something i am not confidant i can achieve the very first time.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2013, 06:50:53 AM »

Got some stuff in the mail today...

20 bucks from dixie gun works

and my pipe for my trunion pockets and caps. I have to shave maybe 15 thousands from the inside to make them fit the trunions, but they sure are beefy.

Now onto the question with these. How to hold my trunion caps on. I had origonally planned to buy four of these with keys from cannon parts LTD, but that puts me over 200 dollars, so i was thinking about trying to copy threepdr's design.

My plan is to cut the top off and grind the rod and the base of the top flat, measure how long they need to be, adjust the length of the rod accordingly, and reweld the rod back on straight. that will allow the rod to pass all the way through my cheeks.

In an effort to save 100 dollars my idea is to copy this as best i can.

that will allow me to only have to use two key bolts and keys. but here is my question...... What kind of tolerance is required for the rear piece thats welded onto the trunion plate that the cap square hinges on. I can cut the hole for the key bolt undersided and fit it by hand to keep the capsquare from having lots of wobble, but is that rear U shaped piece really doing alot of clamping/aligning? Would i be much better off to just use two key bolts and keys per side?

Zulu · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2013, 07:30:46 AM »

This way is better and original.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2013, 07:49:43 AM »

thanks for those pictures... they will help a ton when i sit down and have the discussion w/ the blacksmith!

Indygunworks · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:38:36 AM »

tried making my template for the trails today... came out pretty good but the cardboard made it hard to get good sharp angles... I think I like it pretty well and once its cut out on wood I think it will look even better... they are just under 7 feet long.
started w/ this

ended up with this

do you guys think that looks good enough?

Zulu · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:45:44 AM »

Hi Indy,
My first thought is that your heavy trails are going to overwelm your spindly wheels.
The cardboard pattern makes the wheels look light. Double, 2" thick cheeks aren't going to make them look any heavier.

I think the shape of your trail pattern is okay though.
At this point, you have to work with what you have.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:17:56 AM »

that picture definitely makes the wheels look skinny, but the trails will be the same thickness as the wheels, so hopefully it will work out... I could shorten the trail to 6 feet, might keep the trails from looking so overpowering... ill cut the extra cardboard I have taped on off and snap another picture and we can see what that looks like.....

Indygunworks · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:23:04 AM »

If I make them this long I can get a little more of a cant in the middle part of the trail... ill have to cut up the template and redo the bottom if you think that this would look more appropriate and not be too short.... I think the shorter I go the better it will look w/ the wheels I have, but I don't know where the line is w/ TOO short.
here are the pictures.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:38:53 AM »

Here is 5 feet from the axle, everything cut up and taped back together. total length will be close to 6 feet, but only 5 behind the axle. and with this length, the cant downwards can become MUCH more noticeable once I place everything back on the board and line it all back up.

This length would make it so it would fit on my trailer perfectly, or in the back of my truckbed w/ the tailgait down as a last resort.

Zulu · « **Reply #23 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:42:04 AM »

It's pretty hard to judge by a picture but I like the shorter version better than the longer version.
Zulu

Indygunworks · « **Reply #24 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:46:04 AM »

are there any safety concerns w/ the trail being 5 feet long?

Indygunworks · « **Reply #25 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:59:37 AM »

I could also, thin the main length of the trail out to keep it from looking so "beefy" when compared to the wheels.

Indygunworks · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2013, 08:09:51 AM »

Here is an extra inch or so of taper in the middle section of the trail... I also made the rounded bottom part that contacts the ground a bit narrower as well by about an inch... might be hard to see in the pictures, but I think it makes all the difference in the world...
that is if there are no safety considerations w/ a 5 foot trail.

GGaskill · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2013, 09:36:26 AM »

If you would take the pix from a lower position, the actual profile of the trail would be more apparent. From eye height, it tends to look almost straight.

The Hayman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:46:32 AM »

Hi Indy,
I've been curious as to your progress (any new pictures?). I like the shorter trail, but am not qualified to comment on the safety considerations of the length. I know rivercat is keeping everyone absorbed (including me) with all his great photos of cannon, but I like the building threads and am missing yours. I like the look of your tube, regardless of what one chooses to call it. Small enough for me to move around without much help, but big enough to be a CANNON, not a just not a small toy. Hope we hear from you soon.

Don

Indygunworks · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:56:57 PM »

I have added a few inch's to the trail to make it 6 feet 6 inch's... I think that's plenty long enough for safety..... Ill try and toss a picture up, but I just remodeled the kitchen and it took me a few days to get the garage back together to make enough room to work. I will be taking the boards Monday to have them planed down to 2 inch's thick, and the design bandsawed out.