why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?

[45-70.gov]

to say the civil war is about ''slavery''


is like saying gun control  is about ''public safety''


but  we know  it is ALL ABOUT  control.....with a good sounding reason

[SHOOTALL]

The winners wrote the history now there are people digging it up and finding lies .

[BAGTIC]

There was no "war Between the States". There was a war between the Usa and the CSA. It began when the CSA attacked the USA.
The CSA was treated like a 'defeated nation' True, just like Japan was treated like a defeated nation and for the same reason.
The 'oppresive cotton tax' did not exist. The Constitution prohibited export taxes. What hurt the South was the import taxes on imports. Because the South had extremely limited industrial capacity it had to import much of its manufactured goods. It could have imported them from the North tax exempt as the Constitution prohibits import taxes (tariffs) among the States. Instead it chose to import from Europe, primarily Great Britain. This was probably because its cotton exports to GB produced a trade surplus that they could use to pay for British products. It was no different than what happens today where nations create trade arrangements where one agrees to buy products from another country in exchange for that country to reciprocate by buying an equivalent value of goods from the former nation.  In other words if you will aggre to buy $xxx dollars or cotton from us we will agree to buy an equal value of manufactured goods from you. Of course those goods would be subject to import tariffs when they enetered the USA just as they would have been if they landed in the North. The South may have been paying a disproportionate share of the federal excise taxes but it was not because of discrimination. It was because northerners were buying domestic products and creating jobs for other Americans which in turn stimulated development of the 'Yankee' economy. Southern slaves caounted half a vote politically but they contributed near nothing to the domestic economy. They were not priducing high value manufactured goods nor were they buying them.

[jng]

Well, I truly did not intend this post to bring out such feelings coming from folks. 
Well, I'm a NRA life member and I do feel strongly in states rights.  Unfortunately a slew of folks do not understand that we are all brothers.  The Washington elite wish to change this.  Please do not let them!  True be told, I have not been through the south except the coastal regions.  (hills and hard wood comment) 
I guess that it was good that I didn't mention, Uncle Billy was born sixty miles from my home.

[Swampman]

"why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?"
 
Because you're still down here........

[Oldshooter]

why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?

 
 

There was no "war Between the States". There was a war between the Usa and the CSA. It began when the CSA attacked the USA.
The CSA was treated like a 'defeated nation'

   
 

[LONGTOM]

Dixie is a great song, so is the Battle Hymn of the Republic but I think this one tells it better then any other.
 
http://youtu.be/f8ZA_8l3YVg
 
 
LONGTOM

[subdjoe]

Secession was about tariffs, states rights, and slavery in about equal amounts.  The WAR was about revenue flowing into the federal coffers. 

Buchanan didn't do anything about the seven states of the deep south leaving because he, and his AG, saw it as a right not prohibited them by the Constitution.  "Honest" Abe made it clear in his inaugural address that he would attack the CSA if duties, taxes, and tariffs were not paid to the federal government.  Lincoln, after repeated offers to allow the troops at Sumter to be evacuated peacefully, was attempting to reinforce and re-provision the fort, which was then SC territory.  Imagine if California were to leave the Union today - would you expect Alcatraz to remain federal property?  Or Ft. Point on the San Francisco side & Fts. Barry and Cronchite on the Marin side of the gate?  Or would they go with CA?  After we broke away form England, did English forts remain property of the Crown?

[BBF]

Thanks oldshooter !!
I don't get to hear that song much, but anytime I do, I have the urge after the first few sad sounding notes to straddle the nearest cayuse and trot off waving my hat and I don't have a bit of Southern in me other then the occasional dram of Southern Comfort.

[Oldshooter]

       

straddle the nearest cayuse and trot off waving my hat

Is that before or after the Southern comfort?   

[BBF]

Dixie is a great song, so is the Battle Hymn of the Republic but I think this one tells it better then any other.
 
http://youtu.be/f8ZA_8l3YVg
 
 
LONGTOM

WOW!!! No beating around the bush.
 
Let it all hang out!

[BBF]

      

straddle the nearest cayuse and trot off waving my hat

Is that before or after the Southern comfort?   

 
That stuff lubricates the old joints and lifts a sagging spirit.

[Swampman]

Dixie is a great song,............ but I think this one tells it better then any other.
 
http://youtu.be/f8ZA_8l3YVg
 
 
LONGTOM

My feelings exactly........I walk out when "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is played.  I stand at hand salute when they play Dixie which isn't often anymore.

[LONGTOM]

I don't walk out on the Battle Hymn song, nor do I stand.
I do stand for Dixie and Hoyt Axton tells it like it is!
 
 
LONGTOM

[SHOOTALL]

I don't walk out on the Battle Hymn song, nor do I stand.
I do stand for Dixie and Hoyt Axton tells it like it is!
 
 
LONGTOM

 

[45-70.gov]

"why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?"
 
Because you're still down here........

BEST POST / REASON

[oldandslow]

I must say, there sure seems something wrong with land if it doesn't have, hills or hard wood trees.

    If that means the South, you have been given bad information. Now the coasts are somewhat flat.  There are more hardwood trees in the south than you have been led to believe. A few hills to. Might wanna discuss hills with some folk in Tennessee, North Carolina, and Jawja. Heck we have some in Texas as well, we even have Mountains. We rarely let any yankees see em though! 

Actually you have ONE mountain. Guadalupe, or Signal Peak, as some maps show it and it's barely in the state.. The rest of that stuff is just little hills.  Just gettin' your goat a little and I'm an ex-Texan. I once saw a sign in Ruidoso, NM which is covered up with Texans in ski season that said "If God had meant for Texans to ski he would have gave them a mountain". There was also one about if He had intended them to ski He would have made bulls---  white.

I have a sister-in law that was born and raised a little south of Abilene and still lives there. She talks about the "mountains"  there and I really love to give her grief about the mountains in TX. She can give as good as she gets and we have a great time running down each other's place of residence.

As far as the civil war goes it happened a long time ago. It's over and done with. Everyone needs to move on.

[RPRNY]

 
Sir! dont be confusing the issue with facts! We're mad as hell and we're likely to stay that way!

;-)  Fair enough.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[Oldshooter]

 
Sir! dont be confusing the issue with facts! We're mad as hell and we're likely to stay that way!

;-)  Fair enough.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

       I thought I put a big grin on that when i posted it. You made some good points.

[BBF]

 
Sir! dont be confusing the issue with facts! We're mad as hell and we're likely to stay that way!

;-)  Fair enough.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 
Staying mad is music to the "ears " of ulcers. Have at it. 

[BAGTIC]

So the southern deadbeats didn't want to pay their taxes? After secession they didn't owe any taxes to the USA because of trade ocurring after secession because they were not part of the USA anymore. However they still owed those taxes that had been incurred prior to secession and not paid. As for what Lincoln said it has about as much credibility as the words of any politician. Political speeches like cow dropping will make the grass grow. "Talk is cheap"  "Put your money where your mouth is." Etc. What matters is not what people and countries say it is what they do. BTW, Lincoln also said he would endure the continuance of slavery if it would preserve the Union. The the fact is theUSA never initiated any act of force against the CSA prior to the CSA's attack on the USA.
President Buchanan could go either way. He was after all our first known gay President having had a long tern affair with Senator William Rufus King (Alabama) Carolina.
"why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?"   Why do jack asses bray? It is part of what they both are. In the case of a lot of southerners it is denial in an attempt to absolve themselves of any responsibility. If only they were smart enough to realize that they don't have any responsibility for what happened back then. They are only responsible for their actions today. So some of their ancestors were racist slavers who were politically and economically incompetent, that was the ancestor's responsibility.

[Oldshooter]

[SHOOTALL]

So the southern deadbeats didn't want to pay their taxes? After secession they didn't owe any taxes to the USA because of trade ocurring after secession because they were not part of the USA anymore. However they still owed those taxes that had been incurred prior to secession and not paid.So we3 can assume we stilled owed the King of England his taxes also after the Revolutionary war ? HOGWASH !As for what Lincoln said it has about as much credibility as the words of any politician. Political speeches like cow dropping will make the grass grow. "Talk is cheap"  "Put your money where your mouth is." Etc. What matters is not what people and countries say it is what they do. BTW, Lincoln also said he would endure the continuance of slavery if it would preserve the Union. The the fact is theUSA never initiated any act of force against the CSA prior to the CSA's attack on the USA.That is simply not true as a Union force fired on troops from Alabama in Fl. days before The SOUTH fired a shot.
President Buchanan could go either way. He was after all our first known gay President having had a long tern affair with Senator William Rufus King (Alabama) Carolina. Your beloved Lincoln was said to have slept with a man . 
"why do folks in the south hold a 150+ year old grudge?"   Why do jack asses bray? It is part of what they both are. In the case of a lot of southerners it is denial in an attempt to absolve themselves of any responsibility. More to the tune of just not liking the invasion from the north , Ya'll create govt. systems that try to give more than they can support and unions that demand from companies until the company can't function and when both fail ya'll then move SOUTH disrupting our system , Ya''ll fail to realize WE DON"T CARE HOW YA"LL DID IT UP north. If only they were smart enough to realize that they don't have any responsibility for what happened back then.We do but ya'll don't it was ya'll that came up with affirmative action out of some feeling of owing. They are only responsible for their actions today. So some of their ancestors were racist slavers as were the northern ships captains and ship owners who obtained the slaves and brought them to America , quit acting squeaky clean ya'lls hands are just as dirty if not more so. who were politically and economically incompetent, that was the ancestor's responsibility.

If that BS was true then why was the north so set on keeping the wealth of the SOUTH and extorting it to pay their bills ?
Dude your dog don't hunt.

[Larry L]

So the southern deadbeats didn't want to pay their taxes?

Yet another that is clueless about the Civil War and it's causes. The South was paying tariffs on imports and exports. The South was a major producer of cotton and corn, both highly valued in Europe. As the ships sent these goods to Europe, as they came back, they were hauling goods that the yankee industrialists were producing but at much higher costs to the southerners. These goods were also taxed to bring the cost of the merchandise up to equal the yankee goods. The South was supplying the Yankees Government with 85% of its income. That hardly makes the south a bunch of deadbeats. It does makes the yankees a bunch of freeloaders....kinda like it is today.


And for you "slavery" folks that think that why the war was fought, did you know that there were many white slaves as well. There were over 100,000 Irishmen in servitude here, most up north. One of my ancestors came from England as a slave. He gave his owner 5 years and then ran away. Once found, his yankee owner proceeded to beat him to death. Obviously the yankee never saw a court room. All of this happened during the war. So much for the north fighting to free slaves. Lincoln  as I see it, is rightfully on our penny. It never has amounted to much and is pretty much worthless. Lincoln and Obama are incredibly close- neither had much use for the Constitution and neither let it get in their way.


In regards to the stupid statements about ancestors owning slaves and being incompetent. You assume that everybody in the south owned slaves. You assumed wrong. There are more millionaires in New York than slave owners in the south. Not everybody was fortunate enough to have the money to own slaves. Texas, for an example, had just gotten it's freedom from Mexico. The State of Texas was settled not by wealthy folks but by the poor who were promised land if they would work it. Other States had their issues as well but not everybody had slaves. It cost money to buy the land and more money to buy the slaves. This country wasn't founded/developed by the wealthy but the poor of the world who saw opportunity here. Thinking that slave ownership was a common mans thing is absurd not to mention just stupid.

[scootrd]

"Aw hell, you're not a Yankee! Yankees are from New York and Jersey and Vermont and places like that! You're not a Yankee to us!"

You have obviously never met a real Vermonter. We are nothing like other New England States.  I think we were geographically misplaced.  Upper state New York (of which New York is not a New England state), Vermont, Upper state New Hampshire and Maine are so  different than lower New England as an example. All worked out though , Vermont is a relatively poor state economically so we embrace the smaller things in life. Vermonters in general live quiet lives, have a beautiful state to hunt and fish and enjoy four seasons of outdoor activities, the best gun laws in the US, protect our natural resources, and  for the most part have adopted a live and let live philosophy. 

To say Folks from Upper state New York for example are similar to folks livin in New York city would be like saying people livin in Atlanta are representative of all Georgians.

If you want to experience the true quaint New England , or experience true southern hospitality you have to get out of the cities and meet the people in the towns. I have found good people everywhere I have lived.

Semper Fi

[BAGTIC]

  US Constitution

 
Article 1, Section 9, Clause 5. “No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.”

 
No one was paying export taxes. Never did and never have. Neither north or south. It is time for those who insist the south was being discriminated against by export taxes to put up or shut up. Present the proof instead of more B.S.

 
Everyone was paying import taxes, north and south. Just like the modern income taxes and sales taxes the more you had the more you payed. The South payed more because they imported more.

 
It is ironic that what with all the contemporary complaining, much by southerners, about economic globalization and the loss of 'American' jobs to foreign countries the southern plutocrats favored a 'Buy British' economic policy over a 'Buy American' policy. They did so despite having to pay import taxes on their imports whereas domestic products would have been tax exempt. That is because a lot of southern imports were luxury items for the southern aristocracy. They were willing to pay more for the prestige of 'import quality' just as some people today prefer imported cars, guns, fashions. They weren't importing grits and collard greens.

 
This policy came back to bite them because failure to support domestic industry retarded its development, no where more so than in the South. That lack of industrial development was a crippling burden on the war effort as the CSA could never produce enough to sustain their armed forces. Those slaves they taught to pick cotton but forbade to read and write were not much use when it came to making guns, artillery, ammunition, gunpowder, warships, etc leaving the CSA largely dependent on imports.

 
Today there are many southerners among those who complain about 'American jobs' being lost to 'wetbacks' and other immigrants. Compare this to those days when southerners favored an open unlimited immigration policy and if they couldn't entice enough foreigners to come here and take 'American jobs' they would actually buy them and bring them here against their will and none of this minimum wage crap either.

[Larry L]

Gee Bagtic, I guess I get to school ya. You might research the definition of Tariff. The Act of 1828 was also called The Tariff of Abomination. There were many tariffs after that, all in favor of the yankees. The Morrill Tariff was not the cause of the war but certainly the breaking point for the south who was already financially supporting the bulk of the debt incurred by the yankees. All the Morrill Act did was to make sure that the monies received from it were used to pay for the enrichment of the north. The south was tired of having to pay a bunch of rich industrialists debts and providing money to subsidize their industries.


You can recite the Constitution all you like, it's meaningless. Lincoln and Obama don't even have a clue what's in it. Lincoln didn't know about it, wasn't bound by it, and certainly pushed it aside.....like our current day communist. Lincoln did whatever he wanted and considering the yankees could easily out vote the southern states, they got what they wanted.....like it is today.

[Swampman]

History has now proven that the south was right.  Not much else really matters.

[scootrd]

I have always been confused why the Confederate Navy Jack has come to represent (or at least the perception) of the south instead of the south's first adopted flag the stars and Bars,  or the south's Third National flag adopted March 4, 1865 a few weeks before the civil war ended.

I would have assumed those that like to rehash our countries old wounds over and over again would have adopted the latter flags.

go figure

[Oldshooter]

go figure

Actually since the war began in 1861 and actually before that the term is "go figger"