Author Topic: Wisconsin Cartridge Ammo suprise (Read 2088 times)

stiff neck · « **on:** March 18, 2005, 07:32:04 AM »

I bought 2 100-round packs of .223 Rem 55gr V-max ammo from Wisconsin Cartridge. It was about $44 for 200 rounds plus $8 shipping. I ordered it last Friday AM and it arrived Thursday.

Roughly 75% or more of the brass has dings or dents. The minor ones I assume are from the ejector, they seem to be diagnal slashes in the brass located towards the bottom. Most of those are just cosmetic flaws, right?

25% of the brass has larger dents usually just below or at the neck. Here is a pic of the worst 20 I quickly pulled from a pack of 100. Most of these also have that slight diagnal slash or ejector dent on the other side.

Here is a totally random selection of 5 before I sorted them out. See the ejector dings?

What do you guys think? Normal? Crap?

aulrich · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2005, 07:48:18 AM »

I'd be sending it back, if it is that bad on the outside what is it like on the inside :eek: The bottom ones don't seem too bad, even still my spider senses are tingling :shock:

MtJerry · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2005, 08:07:19 AM »

Quote from: aulrich

I'd be sending it back, if it is that bad on the outside what is it like on the inside :eek: The bottom ones don't seem too bad, even still my spider senses are tingling :shock:

Yep ...

Brett · « **Reply #3 on:** March 18, 2005, 08:26:46 AM »

Looks like poor quality control or a lack of standards to me. Those shells should have been culled before they were reloaded, or at least I would have. I would not be doing business with Wisconsin Cartridge if this is representative of their product. :x

22KHornet · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2005, 09:14:20 AM »

El Crapola. I would personally be embaresed if my reloads looked half that bad.

I would send them back with a nasty note. Even military surplus is better than that. :shock:

Mac11700 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2005, 09:52:45 AM »

Call them first and have them issue a call tag and pay for the return shipping...I would be entirely ticked off about getting some as bad as that...

Mac

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2005, 09:56:23 AM »

Were the rounds packed in a box of twenty or packed loose in a large box??? :roll: IF loose in a large box..it is the shippers that are probably to blame... :wink: I don't know why... but these guys that have to handle this stuff get pissed off by having to handle alot of weight on their jobs and take out their frustrations out on the boxes they have to handle...

Good luck on getting the factory to replace it... :? Corse they could pack it better but they ARE in business to make a profit....that means cheap overhead...."Made in the USA" no longer means Quality and Pride are involved in the making of a product anymore unfortunately ..:cry:

mt3030 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2005, 01:29:07 PM »

I agree. Send it back. I'v purchased lots of reloaded mil brass (Miwall, Blackhills, etc.) and have never had anything looking this bad. Some of those large dents near the neck/shoulder might even cause chambering problems. And this surprises me from WCC. They have a good reputation.
Good shooting..mt

Chainsaw · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2005, 02:14:53 PM »

I would contact WCC and let them know and email the pics you have to them. They are just straight west of me here in Cheeseville, and are at most of our gun shows and are reasonable people. I have bought components from them at the shows and they were top notch, unless something has gone awry in the last 6 months or so.

Good Luck............Chainsaw

JPH45 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2005, 06:00:48 PM »

That ain't shipping damage. From looking at the brass, it seems these folks are selling reloaded ammo. The extractor dings are no problem and the minor dings on the body are no problem, but I see dents at the necks and body that would almost certainly cause chambering problems. Even so, dents like that would iron out safely so long as the round chambered ok. Problem is this..... If their quality control will let this stuff out, as has been pointed out, what do you have on the inside?

zapper223 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2005, 07:19:22 PM »

I would send them back , if they look like that on the outside, as someone else said they have very poor quality control or shipping methods . Who's to say the loads are even close to consistent. I reloaded for a few years and just haven't had the time lately . I'd like to tell everyone that I found a very good guy in vermont who I ordered some reloads from. His name is Randy lilley at vermont ammunition . I was fortunate to get a few hundred for my .223 as well as my 25/06 handi and ultra rifles. Both loads shoot MOA or real close , as well as being very consistent. The bad news is due to very serious health problems he no longer is able to run the buisness. He sent me a e-mail and has sold his buisness to a friend in FL. and said as soon as he is up and running to get ahold of him . He's supposed to be as good as Randy with roughly the same prices. I was getting 20 rds. 223 50 gr. V-Max for around $8.00 . 25/06 75gr. V-Max for $10.00 for 20. Not bad considering the excellent quality this was 1 time fired brass and alot looked like new. Not a ding , barely a scratch. If anyone is interested I'll put the new guys info. on here when he's up and running.
Good-Luck,
zapper

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 19, 2005, 02:24:27 PM »

Quote from: JPH45

That ain't shipping damage. From looking at the brass, it seems these folks are selling reloaded ammo. The extractor dings are no problem and the minor dings on the body are no problem, but I see dents at the necks and body that would almost certainly cause chambering problems. Even so, dents like that would iron out safely so long as the round chambered ok. Problem is this..... If their quality control will let this stuff out, as has been pointed out, what do you have on the inside?

I'm in the JPH45 court with the exception that if ya look at the left hand cartridges in the top pic...they have perfectly round little dents...several more down the line do too....about the same size as the tips of the bullets would make....I still think they were packed loose and the gorillas at the shop (or at the shippers) threw another (or many) heavy boxes on top of it.... :roll: Still ..wonder what the QC on the powder measuring was at the factory.. :x

rp · « **Reply #12 on:** March 19, 2005, 07:40:15 PM »

If the bullet tip is hitting the case so hard as to dent it in the manner shown wouldnt a primer or two also been dented? If it's a shipping problem it looks dangerous at best.

Greybeard · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2005, 12:38:38 AM »

I'm gonna disagree. So what's new about that? :eek:

You paid 22 cents each for them and the bullets likely cost them 10 cents each. What do you really expect for nearly nothing? Yeah they look bad. Yeah it would be nice if they didn't. But these folks no doubt bought military surplus cases and they do have problems like this quite often. But they really are only cosmetic most of the time. Seldom affect function in any way to include accuracy. If you are a reloader they should come out looking fine after one firing.

If you're not a reloader where else will you find ammo at this price? Call them sure. Ask but expect to be told they are fully functional and that the reason they are so cheap is that they use excess military brass and don't have a way to remove such dents, which of course they don't. Only firing will remove them.

Shoot some. If they shoot good quit worrying about it. If not then don't buy anymore and feel free to try to convince them to accept them back. But they might, likely will shoot just fine at at 22 cents each with premium varmint bullets that's one super price.

tbmaker · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2005, 03:56:16 AM »

Graybeard makes total sense on this one. You get what you pay for and it can't hurt to try it out.

stiff neck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2005, 04:17:08 AM »

I'm gonna disagree here.

Shipping damage would be spread pretty randomly on the brass, right? But almost ALL of the dents are at or on the shoulder. There's a few rare dents in the middle of the brass, but only a few. The rest are at the top. If it's from shipping, the dents would be all over the brass, not concentrated in one specific area.

Also, I understand that I didn't pay for premium ammo. But I also think that it's a pretty high rate of "unacceptable" rounds. Honestly, for the price I wouldn't mind if a few are junk. But 20-25% is rediculous.

Has anybody actually used WC ammo? Was yours also dented like this? Is it junk ammo like Wolf or is it decent stuff?

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2005, 08:13:03 AM »

Well..looks like we all agree to disagree......and for what its worth..Wolf ammo isn't Junk....AND their cases wouldn't have dents in it.... :roll: :-)

3006bluffhunter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2005, 03:30:49 AM »

I bought lots of rounds from wisconsin cartridge corp...They always sell for less...never had a problem with them.....If they do not chamber good call them....
If they work fine use them......But you might want to call and tell them....they might discount your next order.....They are to all are gun shows in wisconsin and might even go out of state selling ammo at gun shows.....Good luck Dale

stiff neck · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2005, 04:30:17 AM »

Sooo... you've used lots of it? How is it? Is it accurate?

Quote

Has anybody actually used WC ammo? Was yours also dented like this? Is it junk ammo like Wolf or is it decent stuff?

mt3030 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2005, 04:50:27 AM »

I purchased 5 boxes of 257 Roberts from them before I was set up to reload that caliber. The ammo looked and shoot great. It was more accurate then Remington 120 gr and I had to work to get my handloads to group as well in my Browning lever action. I also purchased once fired cases, which were indeed once fired, and were clean and in excellant shape when received. By the way, I've used Wolf 45 ACP, 9mm and 223 Remington ammo. Have found no junk under that label. You just get what you pay for.
Good shooting..mt

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2005, 12:34:43 PM »

All these reloaded cases have gone through a full lenght resizing die.
They should work well in the oversize H&R 223 chambers. The dings are of little concern. I agree with GB. Shoot them and see what kind of accuracy you get. At that price you can't complain too much.

glock29 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2005, 05:38:29 AM »

:twisted: :twisted:

I second the response from "stiff neck" regarding Wolf Ammo.
It IS Junk !

Yukon Gold · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2005, 07:22:50 AM »

Glock 29 Wrote:

Quote

I second the response from "stiff neck" regarding Wolf Ammo.
It IS Junk !

Would appreciate some info on Wolf Ammo. In what regard is it considered junk? I am asking from a "plinking" round point of view - not as a hunting/competitive aspect.

Thanks!

Sourdough · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2005, 07:47:27 AM »

I have to agree with Graybeard. This looks like military brass and there is no way to remove the dents and dings without firing them. Often times my semi-autos will ding and dent the brass like that, I reload them anyway and they come out just fine.

Several years ago the wife and I were out glassing before Caribou season and she found a 30-06 round lying in the road. It had been run over and the side and a portion of the shoulder was caved in. She tossed it on the dash and forgot about it. A couple of weeks later I was up there with a friend and he forgot to bring his 06 shells. A Caribou ran across the road, he grabbed the one off the dash, shoved it in his Savage 06. It chambered hard but he got it closed. He shot the Caribou, and when he opened the bolt the case looked like a any other fired brass. No dings of dents.

Donaldo · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2005, 07:58:27 AM »

See, I been tellin ya, them Savage rifles will shoot anything. They ain't like them whimpy Remchesters. They'll eat ever thang and still get the job done.

Mac11700 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 22, 2005, 08:12:19 AM »

Maybe I'm missing something here...you order ammo from a company...and it has a high percentage of dented cases...and extractor marks on them...first off...did you know they would use this type case??? If not...call them...express your concerns...and send it back...if you did know they were using this type case...try a few and see how they shoot...if they don't feed and function properly...or your still disatisfied.....then send them back to them...

Mac

Deadeye47 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 22, 2005, 08:21:43 AM »

Quote from: Yukon Gold

Glock 29 Wrote:
Quote
I second the response from "stiff neck" regarding Wolf Ammo.
It IS Junk !

Would appreciate some info on Wolf Ammo. In what regard is it considered junk? I am asking from a "plinking" round point of view - not as a hunting/competitive aspect.

Thanks!

It's not "Junk"...Wolf ammo is excellent inexpensive plinking ammo ...I've shot alot of it in a 9MM upper and a 223 upper in a Colt M-16 full auto...I also use it in 7.62 x 39 in AK's and SKS's I have NEVER.. EVER.. had a failure to feed, extract or fire when using it.....it is dirty though because of the Russian powder...hey..it's an elementary thing....clean your weapon when your through and get over it :roll: Case prices of 500 rounds vary depending on where ya get it...if ya can...because it's" junk"( sarcasm

) they are sold out alot of times... but it is cheap shooting fun...:wink:

stiff neck · « **Reply #27 on:** March 23, 2005, 07:37:36 PM »

My main point is this:

The ammo I got has a ton of dents in it, especially near the shoulder. I haven't gotten any responses yet on 2 gun forums that dents are normal for WC ammo. Everybody says it's good stuff with NO dents. But my purchase has lots of dents.

SO, did I get a screwy batch of ammo? Or is this normal? It sounds like I got a screwy batch since I'm the only one who's ever gotten a bunch of dented cases like this.

The majority of folks from both gun forums said to send it back. I called WC and talked to the owner. He immediately said he'd send a UPS pick up and refund my order.

ScatterGunner · « **Reply #28 on:** March 24, 2005, 01:28:15 AM »

i'd shoot the stuff and then reload it. all those dents will be history when you pull the trigger.

it looks like good cheap ammo to me.

sg

Brett · « **Reply #29 on:** March 24, 2005, 02:42:22 AM »

Quote from: stiff neck

My main point is this:

The ammo I got has a ton of dents in it, especially near the shoulder. I haven't gotten any responses yet on 2 gun forums that dents are normal for WC ammo. Everybody says it's good stuff with NO dents. But my purchase has lots of dents.

SO, did I get a screwy batch of ammo? Or is this normal? It sounds like I got a screwy batch since I'm the only one who's ever gotten a bunch of dented cases like this.

The majority of folks from both gun forums said to send it back. I called WC and talked to the owner. He immediately said he'd send a UPS pick up and refund my order.

Sounds like WC feels that this is not normal and are taking steps to correct the situation and to do right by you. Can't ask for any thing better than that, I would definitely give them another chance.