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Author Topic: 110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.  (Read 2188 times)

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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« on: October 17, 2005, 09:11:48 AM »
Mac.
Tried two loads with two powders N150 and IMR4350 in the 257 Roberts Handi. One 3 shot load into 1.5" and the other into 1.25". No further testing until I get a new spring. A new spring should be here any day now.

Both these loads are a long way away from the 100 gr TSX bullet with the same powders. All bullets fired were Moly plated.

In a 25-06 with more speed they may do better? I think you need to push them faster than a 257 Roberts can.

When I look at the diagram of the interior shape of the Accubond jacket I get the distinct feeling of imbalance. The interior shape is quite complex for rotational balance?

Of course these bullets are quite long and require a good MV but not more than the TSX bullet.

I wont use them in the Ruger 25-06 since I doubt that I can beat the accuracy of the 100 gr TSX bullet with any other bullet. Consistent accuracy with three shots under a 1/4" is not easy to get with any type hunting ammo and rifle. But I will try a few max loads with RELODER 22 in the Ruger just to find out how they stack up.

The 25 Hunter will not handle the long bullet, because of the short throat it would take up too much of the case voume in that short case.

I also tried the old stand by 100 gr Speer Spitzer they shot a group nearly twice as good. Speer bullets very seldom present any surprices, the hot core is no exception.
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Offline quickdtoo

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2005, 01:06:11 PM »
The August issues of Petersen's Hunting and Field & Stream had articles on the latest bullets available, they both spoke very highly of the Accubond. F&S indicated that it had all the accuracy of the Nosler Ballistic tip, which in their opinion is as good as it gets for a hunting bullet, without any of the short comings, rated it for any game which I wouldn't agree with, but I think they were only referring to deer and elk.  PH reported the same but said that it lost the most weight of all the bullets tested, but did not loose its core and penetrated well. Their tests were 2000fps and 3000fps impacts with 180gr .308" bullets, simulating long distance and close high velocity hits. Considering the Accubonds cost a third to half as much as other premium bullets and are considered the most accurate of the bunch, I think they warrant consideration for those that want premium performance for less money spent. The .308" 180gr sells for $16 per 50 and even less direct from Nosler at their factory seconds store where I got the .277" 140gr Accubonds for $12 per 50.
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Offline nomosendero

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2005, 04:00:24 PM »
The Accubond is building a very good reputation for accuracy, especially in
the 180 & 200 Gr. 30 cal., 140 7mm & 270 & other bigger calibers. I am
starting to see good results with the 110 Gr. 25cal, but it has been much
slower in coming. Some report great accuracy, but I wondered about the
odd weight or if there was another problem unique to this .25 cal bullet, I
have seen discussions about this on a long range forum I frequent. I decided to hold off on this bullet for now.

We decided to use the 125 Gr. R.B.B.T.  U.L.D. Wildcat bullet designed by
Richard Graves up in Alberta, & we took 6 Antelope & 3 Mule Deer in
Wyoming last week & I was most impressed. The BC & wind bucking cap.
of this bullet was through the roof.We used these in 25-06 AI Sendero's at 3,250 FPS. They have to be pushed hard to shoot really well & I haven't used them in my Ultra yet.
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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2005, 04:27:39 PM »
Quick.
It would be interesting to know the cartridge used, MV, accuracy at 100 and twist, it sounds to me like a 300 magnum of sorts.

The 25cal  Accu Bond is the longest 25 caliber bullet in the line up I know at 1.195", Next is the 120gr Hornady HP at 1.185",  The Berger 110gr and the 100 gr TSX at 1.115 are the same. The TSX is super accurate in the 25-06 and really good in the 257R. The Berger is also super accurate but not a hunting bullet.

I clearly can see a stability problem with the Accu bond in the 257 Roberts, not enough speed or too little twist . That Accu bond needs to be pushed to 3300 ft for best performance in a 1-10" twist. I am just too lazy to do the calculation.

One other thing a 1-10" twist in a 25 cal is not the same as a 1-10" in a 30 caliber. The twist angle is quite a bit steeper in a 25.

I should have done the math and tested the bullets that Mac send me first before I bought a box of 50. Laying down on the job is the word.

I am surprised to hear that the Accu bonds lost as much weight, even the 139gr 7mm Horn Interlock only looses 45 % in my 7mm-08AI. I dug out some of those bullets in Africa out of a Hartebeest and a Gamsbok. In deer you hardly find one they go out the other side.
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Offline quickdtoo

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2005, 04:45:57 PM »
Looking at the pics of the bullets tested, I wouldn't say anything negative about the quantity of material lost, they just indicated that it lost the most, not that it lost a lot. The remaining mushroom on the high velocity Accubond looked impressive, to say the least. Picture perfect for a $16 a box bullet that shoots as accurate as the Nosler BT!! And there could well be a big difference between the .25 cal and the larger calibers....

I probably will never get experience with the  .257" Accubonds, I bought 100 of the .257" 115gr Ballistic Silvertips from the Nosler Factory 2nds store for $20!! In a handload, they should shoot excellent since Mac shot the factory Winchester Supremes inside an inch and mine shoots the 115gr and 117gr factory ammo excellent!! I just bought a set of used .25-06 Forster/Bonanza Benchrest dies on RFC for $25 shipped!!
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Offline Mac11700

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2005, 06:27:37 PM »
I don't know about the imbalance aspect..but..from everything I've read...and been told by Nosler..they will shoot the same as a BT will....I'm going to be replacing my trashed Simmons Atec with my Meuller Tacticle..so I should know how these will work out before too long..I can also say I'll be loading up some of the 338 cal 180 grainers and see if they give as good of accuracy..these are going over 3000 fps in my rifle..and that may have a-lot to do with it,along with the cut rifling Wayne did on it too  :wink:

Mac
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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2005, 07:45:42 PM »
Mac

Quote

When I look at the diagram of the interior shape of the Accubond jacket I get the distinct feeling of imbalance. The interior shape is quite complex for rotational balance?


This is just a guess, and there is no evidence of that being so. What I did see was  the worse two groups of four different bullets and my 257R also has a fine cut rifled bore. And two of the brands where the regular 100 gr Hornady and the 100 gr Speer. These two clearly outshot the Accu bonds not to mention the BarnesTSX bullets.

Does that mean the Accu bonds are poor bullets? No way. But you may want to inquire what twist and velocity they require in a 25 bore, since you got the inside track with these guys.

Well, after I try them in the 25-06 I will crunch some numbers to see whats up doc.

So if the bullet is not imbalanced then the larger groups are caused by too little speed or not enough twist. Me thinks. I also have to eliminate the idea that my barrel is not broken in yet or is of poor quality.
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Offline Mac11700

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2005, 08:10:21 PM »
Quote
I also have to eliminate the idea that my barrel is not broken in yet or is of poor quality.


I would say neither...If I would hazard a guess...I would say if you didn't moly coat them...you accuracy would be much better......I just hazarding a guess here...I know you always do this..but these bullets don't have the same ogive that the Fail safes have...and I really believe this is the cause of your problem...

Mac
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Offline MT4XFore

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2005, 05:20:33 AM »
For what it is worth guys, I shoot the 110 Accubonds in a .257 WBY @3468 fps.  That is a mild load in my gun ( 1 in 10 twist) with an SD < 3.0 and shoots into less than 3/4 moa.  I shot an antelope this past weekend at 277 lasered yards which went in just in front of the diaphragm breaking two ribs, clipped the bottom of the spine, took out one lung, broke two more ribs on the off side, and exited the animal through the off shoulder leaving a hole just a bit smaller than a dime.  Admittedly an antelope is not a particularly tough critter, but that is still pretty impressive performance IMHO.  Have a good one and I hope you can get them to shoot for you.

Jim
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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2005, 08:10:06 AM »
MT4XFore.
You are right on track, below is verification of what I said above. Good shooting. Pretty hard to beat a 257Wby used to have one.  The 257 Banshee is even faster it is a bomb on the 6.5x68 case. A great wild cat.  A good one in a Handi. :lol:  :lol:

MV 3468, Bullet Nosler Accu Bond, Bullet Length 1.195",  cal. 0.257", 1-10" twist.

This above combo has a SF ( stability factor) of 1.19.

With this 1.19 SF the min MV is 3289 ft/sec
Min twist is 1-10.4

To improve the FS for very long range increase the MV to 3500 ft/sec or more if you like.

SF 1.0 a bullet is marginally stabilized
SF 1.3 a bullet is  fully stabilized.

I really don't know the significance of a Fail safe Bullet. Since I have never used one since they are only available in factory ammo at our place and not in 25 cal. But in the States it could be different.

I also like to point out that I have used Moly plated bullets since its indroduction by NECO and were extensively tested by NORMA, in the early 90 t's. I fired thousands of moly plated bullets without ill effects, using all sort of caliber and shapes and still do.

Oh ya the ogives there are as many as the mind and math can conceive. They do change the shape and length of the bullet may they be tangent or secant and effect exterior ballistics when properly stabilised notwithsanding moly.
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Offline MT4XFore

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2005, 08:36:13 AM »
Thanks Fred,  I think...........  My head is swimming with all that info.  Seems to me that the formula for the Stability Factor (SF) of a bullet might be a valuable thing to know.  Then, on the other hand, it might be info that could just cloud one's thinking.  I would suspect however that knowing what velocity a given bullet begins to stabilize would be handy for load development.  If it isn't too complicated for an old hick like me, do you suppose you could share it with me?  Thanks again.  OBTW, someone down here made a 257 STW.  I think that one probably leaves a vapor trail!!  I like the term "Banshee" though, very descriptive word!

Thanks again, and good shootin'

Jim
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Offline quickdtoo

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2005, 08:54:19 AM »
Hmmm, .257 STW.....100gr TSX at 3800-4200 fps!!! :eek: Certainly not a Handi caliber, but interesting!!!

http://www.reloadersnest.com/query_all.asp?CaliberID=239
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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2005, 10:33:39 AM »
Quick.
The 257 Banshee has even more volume than the 257 STW. if it ever was needed. At nearly $2.00 for an empty 6.5x68 case same as the 8x68S case, is not my idea of a wild cat, eating up over 80.0 gr of powder.

MT4XFore
Jim
Send me a private e-mail. I need to ask you a few questions. My e-mail address is at the bottom of the post.

Yes the SF factors are of use, could have saved me buying a box of Accu Bond bullets for the 257 Roberts, if I wasn't sleeping. I try a few in my 25-06 and send some to others that would want to try them.

I think they will work in the 25-06. at 3300 ft. MV but 3400 would be better????
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Offline quickdtoo

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2005, 12:21:39 PM »
Looks to me that the .257 STW and a 100gr TSX is no slouch with 86grs of Rl25 at 4225fps!!! Found no data on the Banshee, it appears to be a rather obscure wildcat with no info on it found with an internet search.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=239&offset=20&LoadID=9340

How bout the .257 Ferguson Hot Tamale!!! :lol:

http://www.2joutfitters.com/STWrifle.htm
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Offline Fred M

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2005, 02:53:33 PM »
Tim
The 257 Banshee was designed by Richard W. Kayser in around 1990. The development is written up in the Precision Shooting Reloading Guide.

The cartridge is a formidable on using 93.gr of powder with a 110gr VLD bullet at about 4300 ft/sec with a 30" barrel
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Offline nomosendero

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2005, 05:06:17 PM »
I think if you want an extra big case like some of these mentioned, it makes more sense to also use a fast twist barrel & heavier bullets. The
same gunsmith that converted my Sendero to an AI has not only designed a wildcat round, but rather a system. He uses a 338 RUM case
(not a 300 RUM because the 338 case is shorter) , uses fast twist barrels
& 156 Gr. Wildcat bullets that will smoke the other .25cal rounds.
The vel. is around 3,550 FPS & with the extreme BC of this bullet, it is much flatter after 400 yards than 100 Gr. at 4,200 or so. It is called a
.257 Allen Mag. & if anyone is interested, private message me & I will
give you his E-Mail add. as he is swamped at the moment.
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2005, 05:11:30 PM »
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Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2005, 05:40:09 PM »
Thanks Quickdtoo
I wasn't sure that I wanted to mention Kirby right now because he is a hunter like me, but I am sure it is OK.
He did accuracy enhancements to my Sendero & when I got it back, I was
amazed as it shoots better than any gun I have ever owned. I shot a .140" group with it & many in the 1/4" & rarely above 9/16" (with the
best loads of course). The 125 Grain Wildcats worked great in Wyoming & both Kirby (the gunsmith) & Richard (the bulletsmith), are top notch!!!
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Offline thelaw

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2005, 04:01:18 AM »
the 110gr. AB out of my ruger m77 (tang safety model) .25/06 shoot 1/2-3/4" groups with a MV just over 3200fps. will be taking the load/rifle combo with me next week to montana for some antelope and mule deer action.
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Offline nomosendero

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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2005, 04:27:00 AM »
thelaw
Sound's like you are ready! I hope your hunt goes as well as ours did.
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Offline nomosendero

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110 gr 25 cal. Nosler Accubond.
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2005, 04:40:16 PM »
Fred M

I was looking at your earlier post about .25 cal. bullet lengths, I just wanted to let you know that the length is 1.268"for the 125 Gr. Wildcat! Mr. Graves of Wildcat bullets says it has to be kicked in the butt hard & seated close to the lands to be accurate. I think it will stabalize in  the 26" handy but it will be close. I will check with my Ultra later, but I can tell you they shoot better than anything I have tried in my Sendero AI at
3,250 FPS!
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