Holy Smoke, .223 Long Throat (Yike's)

[hylander]

Well I checked my Ultra .223 for OCL, 2.480 for a 55 V-Max. :eek:
To touch the lands That 55 is only .065 in the case.
If I seat it to Hornady manual Specs at 2.250, it will be setting off
the lands .230, Holy Cow :eek:
The closest I can get to the lands and still have enough bullet in the case is 2.255, that still leaves me .225 of the  Lands :shock:
Is this the norm for H&R .223, Have any of you measured your throats
in your .223's.
Should I send this thing back to H&R ?
It is brand new, I have not fired it yet, but spent alot of time prepping it and giving it a Trigger Job.
If I try to load 40 grainer's they will be free from the case before ever toughing the lands, in other words they will be flying free.

[quickdtoo]

Nothing new there, they're notorius for long throats....all except for the .45-70, it's just the opposite!! My 7x64 Brenneke with 175gr Grand Slams seated ~7mm in the neck, has almost ½" bullet jump!! :eek:

[hylander]

Nothing new there, they're notorius for long throats

So If I sent it back, I will most likely get a replacement with the same Problem ?
I'm going to shoot it Saturday with several differant loads,
If she shoots MOA I'll be happy, if not She is going back.

[bladerunner]

Hylander,if you have the trigger set to a low poundage (below 3 !/2 pounds) i've been told that if ya send it to the factory for ANYTHING (repair,barrel program)they'll give you a "lawyer" trigger........so try not to send it back if possible.......somebody correct me if i'm wrong,just my impression    

[Fred M]

Hylander.

You may consider having the rifle rebored to a 6x47 with a 1-12" twist.
This will give you a top of the line barrel and chamber.

This is an older Bench Rest cartridge based on the 222Rem Magnum.
This is what I am doing with my 223 which is a poor shooter 1.25" groups is tops. Not good enough to shoot gophers with.

Shooting 55-60 gr 6mm bullets with about 28gr of powder. Very simple to load. Just expand the neck to 6mm and go shooting. This cartridge is super accurate and good out to 300 yards.

Dies and empty cases for this caliber are readily available..

If your chamber and throat is that long, I suspect your chamber neck is long too. Make a cast and see, and then run a 222Rem Mag case into your 223 die and use the extra length the chamber provides.

After setting the shoulder down you would need to trim the cases to suit your chamber length,

You can also get a case length by taken the set back 222Rem Mag and tap into the chamber with a wood dowel, it will crimp at the neck transition and can then be trimmed at the bottom of the crimp.
It is worth atry.

[quickdtoo]

Long throats can still shoot good, it's just not optimum. My .243 has a long throat, but it still shoots moa or a little better with 95-100gr bullets. It just seems harder to find a load that will shoot good in em which is pretty much the mantra for Handis in general. I haven't checked the throat in my .223 Ultra, but it shoots the 45gr Win White box sub moa regularly and I suspect it has the same long throat as the rest of em.  :?

[AZ223]

Hylander -- My .223 Ultra gives me the same numbers as yours. Strangely enough, mine prefers an OAL of 2.245 or less for 55gr Sierras and 50gr Nosler BT's. The Winchester White Box and Ultramax are both less than 2.245, and mine is sub-moa with all of them.   :?

[knight0334]

Having some freebore doesn't always hinder performance.  Weatherby rifles, not counting the Vanguard's made by Howa, have some rather long throat/freebore to them and are concidered to be some of the more accurate rifles out of the box.

[safetysheriff]

Having some freebore doesn't always hinder performance.  Weatherby rifles, not counting the Vanguard's made by Howa, have some rather long throat/freebore to them and are concidered to be some of the more accurate rifles out of the box.

amen to that!   there's more to the story than just the length of the leade/throat.   if a leade is long but it's angle of approach to the rifling is shallow, such as with the .308 and some other accurate rounds, then a lot can be accomplished with the rifle if the bore and chamber are concentric.  look at how many Accurate rifles are built by Remington where the magazine length is so short that you can't get a bullet to reach the rifling and still get the cartridge into the mag'!   but they still shoot Very Well.

then too, some rifles start shooting well after they've been smoothed out with a couple hundred rounds down the bore.  not my way to a beautiful marriage with a firearm, but it happens.

each firearm is a law unto itself, with all of our 'knowledge' actually being tendencies toward expected results.   the purchase of a custom-built rifle that doesn't shoot well, as some customers have seen, is a perfect example of this.

take care,

ss'

[hylander]

Well I called H&R Today and it appears they cut all their Chambers Long.
I asked why and the Replie was that's just the way we have
always done it :?
I did make the suggestion that they change their practice and start cutting the free bore alittle shallower, I am going to E-Mail them the suggestion as well, I would suggest that evryone start sending them this request as well, maybe they will listen, won't hurt.
Other than that the Fit and Finish on this rifle is Awsome.
So off to Range I go tomorrow to see how she does
Range report to follow in a seperate thread.

PS: Fred M
I don't want to rebore as the cost is to high for me, and I love the .223
I would like an AI in .223 though and .243
That won't help the free bore

[hylander]

look at how many Accurate rifles are built by Remington where the magazine length is so short that you can't get a bullet to reach the rifling and still get the cartridge into the mag'! but they still shoot Very Well.

Hey I got one of those Rem. VLS in .308, Mine set's .040 of the Lands.
It shoots 1" @ 300yds :-D

[Norseman112]

My .223 and .243 both have long throats and I called H&R about it last summer and they pretty much told me thats the way we make them....I ask why and they didnt want to go into it and ask me if the rifle shoots ok and I said yes .... but I want to always improve and like my bullets closer to the lands... oh well. After trying many different OAL I found out that my handi rifles shot best when loaded to S.A.M.M.I standards. I hope that helps you .  Good luck.

John

[MtJerry]

The ONLY bullet I have loaded for my 223 Handi that I could seat just shy of the lands was the 63gr. Sierra that was specifically designed for a 1:12 twist.

I was getting about 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, but learned I could do better with a 55gr. bullet.

Reaching the lands is not always needed for accuracy.

I would suggest looking at powder options.  My Handi rifles seem to have an affection for slower powders.