Author Topic: Low Profile Hammer Modification (Updated) (Read 15028 times)

quickdtoo · « **on:** February 22, 2006, 05:35:14 PM »

Many have asked for a lower hammer so the scope can be mounted lower, here's one way...
A hammer extension off an 1894 Winchester levergun can be added to a Handi which will result in being able to mount the scope much lower.

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/PROD/winchester-model-94-accessories/U347900297

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=732435

The hammer needs to be out of the frame, so the best time to do this is when you do a trigger job. The hammer is hardened, so I placed the hammer in a vice with just the spur exposed, turned it dull red with a propane torch then let it cool on its own. The vice provides a heat sink so the hardened part of the engagement surface doesn't get annealed.

While it was cooling, I honed the trigger sear and pins, by the time they were done, the hammer was cold and I honed it. I had to buy a #42 cobalt drill bit and a 4-48 taper tap to do the work.

Placed the hammer in the drill press, drilled the hole, removed the drill bit from the press, then inserted the tap in the drill chuck, centered it in the hole and held pressure on the press lever to start the threads straight, made about half a dozen turns of the chuck by hand, then backed it out, removed the hammer from the vise on the press, then finished the tapping by hand with a t-handle.

Then I cleaned it up and installed it in the frame and checked how it worked. Installed on the right side, it barely clears the barrel release, no problems on the other side if the ocular bell isn't to big, otherwise it's a little awkward to be used right-handed on the left side. It works great on the right side, but attention will be needed to how low it is mounted to clear the barrel release.

Another concern is in the heat of battle, it would be bad to hit the barrel release instead of the hammer spur!!

Then I cut the hammer spur off right at the second groove which might be just a little too short, but time will tell, it's a little closer to the hole than I like. As it came out, the top of the hammer is now just about even with the top of the scope rail.

Mac conceived this idea and I did the foot work, so it's a team effort.
~~The spur extension is listed at Brownells for about $8, but I need to confirm it's the same one since Mac bought it direct from a local dealer near him, there's no pic at Brownell's.~~ Discontinued by Winchester in 2008. :'(

Scope is a Leupold VX1 4-12x40 mounted in low QRW rings.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2006, 06:26:12 PM »

Here's another pic with the lowest rings I have, Weaver extra low, same scope. Ya can't see it, but there's still about 1/8" or a tad more clearance at the hammer.

Tim

Mac11700 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 22, 2006, 06:54:06 PM »

Nice work Tim...I'm glad to see this good idea come to life!!!!!!!!

I got the hammer spurs straight from Browning when there having some work done on my O/U shotgun..they are what they factory uses on the Winchester Lever guns..so..the replacement from Brownells should be the same..I'll let you know what it is going to cost to have all the parts plated as soon as I find out..Having the "bobbed" hammer,barrel release lever,forearm spacer,and trigger gaurd plated all the same should make for a very distinctive custom look for our Handi's..

Did you get a chance to weigh what was removed and the old style hammer spur together yet? I'm betting it will improve the long lock time a good deal with all of it removed..and should help out significantly when shooting for groups..

It will be fun to get them all done up before the end of spring

Mac

quickdtoo · « **Reply #3 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:01:52 PM »

Can't find the piece I cut off, I think it went under my work bench somewhere and there's stuff under there that's been there for over 20yrs!!

I put a link to this thread in the FAQ.

Tim

Hunternz · « **Reply #4 on:** February 22, 2006, 07:10:12 PM »

Looks tidy, let us know how it goes at the range and in the field

thanks Howard.

myarmor · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:34:12 AM »

Quote from: Mac11700

Did you get a chance to weigh what was removed and the old style hammer spur together yet? I'm betting it will improve the long lock time a good deal with all of it removed..and should help out significantly when shooting for groups..

Mac

As I recall the main reason I found out about Graybeards was for this very reason :grin: I am VERY curious how much this helps with the lock-time of the hammer fall. One of my biggest grips with a Hammer is the lock-time, it just messes with me :x
-Aaron

tallyho · « **Reply #6 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:00:46 PM »

Tim,
Would you be able to add a pic showing the hammer at full-cock so we can see the relationship with the barrel release?

Cheers
Kerry

quickdtoo · « **Reply #7 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:39:05 PM »

myarmor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:55:02 PM »

Tim I hate to ask, cause you have already done more than asked :oops: But would you mind posting a pic, top down from the cocked position?
I looked at one of my receivers and imagined how it would turn out if so, but the one thing that puzzles me is the clearance between the low profile hammer spur and the release lever button. Seems really close to me and would have to stick out farther than the release button to make a fast cock of the hammer with out your thumb hitting the release.
Thanks buddy-Aaron

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2006, 02:23:01 PM »

2 more....

Cocked
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/HammerMod9.jpg

Uncocked
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/HammerMod8.jpg

tscott · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:30:10 PM »

If you mount a small 20mm scout / bantam scope far up on the factory rail, the original hammer left alone becomes a real asset. For me it is a terrific hunting setup, that has a very natural feel to it....
This is my sb2 / Huntsman deal, and it has never let me down on whitetails... Wouldn't it be great if NEF packaged a gun like this???

tallyho · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:44:12 PM »

Great pics Tim. Thanks.

Cheers
Kerry

myarmor · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2006, 08:45:08 AM »

Thats it. Thanks buddy. :toast: I was curious about that. Looks like it might just work out pretty good. When I order a couple more parts I'll have to give it a try

fortress49 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:34:54 PM »

For those of us that are left eye dominant, it looks like it may even work better if it were mounted on the left side. That way, it will be away from the barrell release. Do you see any problems with mounting it on the left side?

If someone on this forum can come up with this, why can't NEF? Seems like a relatively easy fix for NEF to implement to the problem of high mounted scopes...Of course it could be that Quick and Mac are geniuses!

Matt

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 24, 2006, 12:57:54 PM »

Thanks, but gotta give Winchester the credit for the idea, Mac transplanted the idea to the Handi, and I implemented his idea!!

It will work fine on the left side for a left hander, but not well with the right hand, the eye bell is too low to get your right hand in position for left side use, specially with the extra low mounts. With medium mounts, it would probably work fine on the left side with either hand. I have some more of the extensions coming from Midway, they appear to be a little different shape/size than the one Mac got, maybe an improved version.

I've even thought about turning down a piece of 3/16" or Â¼" rod to about size 8 and then threading it with an 8x32 die, that way it could be as cut as long as necessary and have the shoulder on it to make it real solid against the side of the hammer stub after shortening the hammer. Then I'd cut knurling in the homemade extension with a file.

Tim

http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/image?saleitemid=732435

Fred M · « **Reply #15 on:** February 24, 2006, 04:23:17 PM »

Tim.
How much weight reduction would this system achieve compared to the H&R extension. The way I did both my Handi's I reversed the extension to the bottom of the hammer and opened the forward edges of the extension goove so the extension can slide foreward about a 1/4" and then trim the top of the hammer off by 1/4".

Neither of my two rifles have suffered from this modification and allows the use of low rings with some scopes with 40mm objective lenses and retains good function of the extension either left and right handed. It also reduces the radius length of tyhe hammer and increases hammer speed.

No pieces to buy and no drilling and tapping.

The 6x48 screw I think would in time shear off from inertia. Your idea of a #8 screw is a better one.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 24, 2006, 04:37:11 PM »

Fred, I lost the piece I cut off, so I don't know how much weight difference there is, but it's considerably lighter than it would be with the H&R hammer extension. I don't know how durable it is, but it's off of a Winchester M94, so I suspect if it works for that, it should work on a Handi. It is pretty small being a #4, tho. When I do the next one, I'll take a before and after pic with a side by side comparison and weigh the parts.

Hope you're enjoying your trip south!!

Tim

Fred M · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2006, 04:54:27 PM »

Tim.
It is wonderful down here. Mid 80tee with a bit of Skeet thrown in.

Should try to weigh all the pieces before and after. I doubt I will do mine since they work so well. It seams the hammer speed is no problem either the way both these rifles shoot.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2006, 12:30:47 PM »

Ok, Fred's idea is definitely the easiest and least expensive way of shortening the hammer. A little grinding and testing for fit, then little touch up bluing and you're done. I went from .420" high Burris to .270" medium on my .405 Win with the Whitetail Expedition scope.

I thought I had a better close up pic, but I found out I didn't after the fact, so this one will have to do....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/405WinClose.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/Before5.jpg

After..
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/After6.jpg

Here's the hammer before I touched it, the small extension top right would be a alternative if you wanted a light weight extension and are willing to anneal, drill and tap the hammer, and cut knurling in the extention with a file. It consists of a 8x32x1" socket head machine screw and an 8/32x1/4"x3/4" threaded aluminum sleeve from True Value, it weighs 60grs compared to the factory extension at 125gr. The Winchester extension weighs just 30grs. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/Before.jpg

Here's the hammer after I thinned the mounting location and shortened the spur. It didn't take long on a green wheel. In fact, I made it just a little shorter than I should have, but since the factory extension can be mounted where ever you need it as long as the set screw can be secured, I just moved it up the spur a tad and tightened it, otherwise it touched the barrel release.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/After0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/After1.jpg

This pic shows approx how much I took off the spur.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/Hammer%20Mods/After2.jpg

Tim

Canadian81 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 17, 2006, 05:41:40 AM »

Did you take material off the Hammer or the extension so the hammer spur would slide down on the hammer for the mod with the factory N.E.F hammer spur? Thanks in advance.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 17, 2006, 06:06:23 AM »

Off of the hammer so the extension will fit lower on it.

If you have the hammer out of the gun for a trigger job, the bench grinder works great to reshape it, but a dremmel cut-off tool works great while it's in the gun, just lay a newspaper over the frame and punch the hammer thru so it's the only thing exposed and cut the spur off so it's flush with the top of the extension with the open side up or toward the muzzle, this will give you the most clearance without changing the hammer any more than you have to. Then clean up the ground end with a file and touch up reblue it.

Tim

Matt3357 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 30, 2010, 04:06:43 PM »

I went in search of a Winchester 94 hammer spur to provide some clearance on one of my guns. Come to find out, they no longer make the hammer spur in that configuration. So I went to McMaster Carr to see what they had and this is what I found.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#thumb-screws/=92tw4n

Do you think it will work?

Matt

tacklebury · « **Reply #22 on:** September 30, 2010, 04:34:03 PM »

It could. I had also suggested in an earlier post a screw rivet like used in knife making. All you would have to do is drill a through hole for the thread size and screw the round part down, then grind it to the length you want. Just another possibility.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,215321.0.html

Dinny · « **Reply #23 on:** September 30, 2010, 04:39:15 PM »

My only concern would be...how do you secure it? On a screw-type extension, they have thread for about 5/16 of an inch then a shoulder to rest on. I guess you could just use a short thumb screw, but it would need some way to bottom out or you would need to epoxy it in place so it doesn't move. If it's allowed to rotate, it could impede upon the hammer cocking all the way back when you least need it to happen.

Thanks, Dinny

Matt3357 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 30, 2010, 04:45:28 PM »

I ordered a couple to play with. To keep it from spinning, snug it up with a bit of lock tight. I guess we'll find out.

matt

Dinny · « **Reply #25 on:** September 30, 2010, 04:46:44 PM »

Quote from: Matt3357 on September 30, 2010, 04:45:28 PM

I ordered a couple to play with. To keep it from spinning, snug it up with a bit of lock tight. I guess we'll find out.
matt

Please post some pics when you get it assembled. I'd like to see how it all works out.

Thanks, Dinny

Matt3357 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 30, 2010, 05:00:12 PM »

Will do.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 02, 2010, 07:14:26 AM »

Hit the bins at your local ACE Hardware (or other, but ACE seems to have a good selection around here) and see the small knurled head alum. screws in the stormdoor (I think) section. There are several head sizes, but the one I have in mind has a small dia. head that is relatively long and the threaded end is a common tap.
But then consider the 'thumb flip' button on a lot of folding knives. The button is short headed yet gives you purchase to flip. So, a small steel allen head may do about as well on the side of a Handi hammer.
Both these ideas add little weight so they shouldnt create a failure to fire situation.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #28 on:** October 02, 2010, 07:27:22 AM »

I like the idea of the aluminum door screws, I've already been down that path at Ace and True Value, they don't carry aluminum screws in the nuts/bolts section, didn't think about the door section, I'll check it out, thanks. As for the short allen head, a Handi hammer is a lot harder to pull back than any folding knife is to open, so I think you'd have to have a steel thumb to make that idea work well.

That's what aluminum spacers are for, Ace and True Value carry them in 8-32.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #29 on:** October 02, 2010, 11:30:37 AM »

Just back from Ace, they had the aluminum screws in 6-32 and 8-32, also had some stud extension in 8-32 that look like they'd work if they don't bend, hopefully the shoulder will keep that from happening!

Tim