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Offline Grizz_

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H&R arrived
« on: May 15, 2006, 04:11:30 PM »
The Buffalo Classic finally arrived. Man that thing is light !!!

I think my RedHawk might weigh as much as the HnR does...

Now my problem is I am out of ammo.

And don't have time to load any up for a while.

I gotta get'erdone so I can shoot'er, know what I mean?

:-D

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2006, 04:37:16 PM »
Congrats!! :toast:

Tim
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2006, 07:58:28 PM »
thanks Tim

Do you know what pressure levels this gun handles? I've been told it's a strong action, but is there published data for 525gr load max velocities? Or for 405 to 425gr bullets?

What's the rifling twist?

Thanks to whoever has the info...

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2006, 08:29:27 PM »
Twist rate is 1:20", H&R will tell you that levergun loads are safe, but there are those here that have loaded into the low ruger levels with no problems. The Handi is factory chambered in .500S&W which has a SAAMI MAP of 60kpsi which is ruger level top pressures in .45-70, but you'll probably stop way before that level due to the recoil which is quite severe.

My 300gr Nosler load at a little over 2400fps has more recoil than a .375 H&H at 37ft/lbs in my 10.5lb Ultra and the BC, even with lead in the stock, weighs less. I've shot the 525gr Beartooth in my 45-120 and 45-70 BC at around 1700fps, it's got some fearsome recoil, not fun at all. I use 535gr Postell load data from the Lyman 48th for the 525gr Beartooth with Marshall Stanton's blessings, he said that's a good place to start. He's got some data for the 518gr and 525gr that would work. Realguns and Accurate have some data too.

Probably one of the best sources all in one inexpensive spot is the LoadbookUSA 45-70 booklet, it's got all powder and bullet mfrs data in one loose bound booklet for $7!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=694314

Good shootin to ya!!

Tim

http://www.loadswap.com/display.php?start=200&cartridge_table=Rifle_Cartridge

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm

http://accuratearms.com/loaddata_caliber_rifle_standard_458cal.htm
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2006, 04:51:32 AM »
Thank you Tim,

That's good info. My only interest in a higher velocity load is for a penetration comparison test. One or two shots to settle a question I have.

My 460gr CP load ran 1520fps out of a 26" Marlin Cowboy. I am interested in the same load out of the BC to see if it's faster, or not.

My 525gr load is 2 full grains under Marshall's pressure tested load. Don't have the velocity data for it yet, but it's exactly the same charge I use in the 460gr load.

So just once I plan to work up a stiff load and then do some penetration comparisons. My reference is my piledriver load that penetrated 11 water jugs and stopped in the 12th. I am going to see if I can beat that with a faster OR slower load, probably starting around 1000fps and progressing to whatever the Classic Buffalo will give me. Pretty sporting, eh?

:)  Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2006, 05:18:07 AM »
FWIW, my 300gr Nosler load in the BC only increased by about 25fps in the extra 10" of barrel over the 22" Handi, so powder choice is going to be the key factor.

That water jug test was purty darn impressive , thanks for sharing that!!

Tim
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Offline James B

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« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2006, 06:42:16 AM »
when using hard cast bullets, you will find that the best pentrtion will be at well below maximum velocity as the 45-70 will out penetrate the 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott and 460 Weatherby. Check out the testing on the Garret cartridge site.
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Offline bajabill

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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2006, 06:51:43 AM »
"man that thing is light"


yep, and front heavy when its on a rest and you want to support it at the forend screw.

I filled the stock bolt hole with lead shot, packed it in and it added about a pound.  Now it feels better balanced also.  

I have not shot it yet to see how it does or holds up.  Maybe with time I may do something more "proffesional" to get the weight in the stock.
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2006, 07:03:53 AM »
Quote from: James B
when using hard cast bullets, you will find that the best pentrtion will be at well below maximum velocity as the 45-70 will out penetrate the 458 Win Mag, 458 Lott and 460 Weatherby. Check out the testing on the Garret cartridge site.


Hello James,

I am inclined to agree with the theory, but there are plenty of folks who just plain don't believe it. I am going to run tests and photograph them and make the comparison data available.

I believe Randy, but the issue has never been supported with data. That's what I want to do. Until I get the videos no one will be convinced unless they already lean thataway.

Regards,

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2006, 07:06:23 AM »
Quote
That water jug test was purty darn impressive , thanks for sharing that!!


You're welcome Tim. I lost the link, go ahead and post it if you like, maybe some of the guys haven't seen it yet.  :lol:

Grizz
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2006, 07:28:34 AM »
I did a while back, I'll look for it. :wink:

Tim

I found it, but the link to the test is dead. :cry:

http://www.marlinowners.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=8707
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2006, 07:39:12 AM »
Sorry about that. Marshall has it on his site, here's the link:

http://beartoothbullets.com/WMV_Files/45-70-525.wmv

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2006, 07:41:27 AM »
Thanks!! :D

Tim
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2006, 07:08:02 AM »
I ordered this sight today:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=770&partNum=RS-CREED-5-WE

I suppose it isn't the quality of a 500$ vernier, of course, but it's gonna get'r done.

I walk around the house with this gun, taking aim at spiders and camp robbers. It is BEGUILING. I am going to figure out how to put a green fiber dot in the Lyman front sight, and go hunting for some steel rams.
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2006, 09:17:03 AM »
I'm lookin forward to see how she works out! :wink:

Tim
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2006, 06:28:10 AM »
The vernier sight arrived from Track of the Wolf. It was cheaper than the Lyman No.2 I put on the 1886, and MUCH BETTER quality. And cheaper.

Part No. RS-CREED-5-WE  $55        How can you beat that?

Of course, being that cheap, there is probably a built-in glitch that's invisible, but that guarantees you can not outshoot the $500 verniers.

But I digress. I am as excited as a 2yr old on Christmas Eve.

I will probably inlet the stock for the base of the sight.

If someone could tell me the thickness of the wood in the wrist area I would appreciate it.

I have the option of D&T the breech where it joins the stock for the forward screw, if there is enough metal to accept the screw without weakening the gun. Again, any experienced info will be greatly appreciated.

I might have to attach the thing with wire ties, big wire ties, and head to the range. OOOooops, can't, I'm out of ammo...

I hope the rest of y'all are having as much fun as I am

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2006, 07:05:25 AM »
Grizz,

The stock bolt has .625" of wood above it at the hole entrance but angles slightly toward the top of the wrist to within about ½" of it, can't measure it there tho.



Email The Montanan, he installed a soule sight on the wrist of his BC, but I can't get the thread to open, plus all of his pic links are broken. I think the second link will open so you can hit his email button. He doesn't get on here much anymore so a PM may not work as well. Tell him I sent ya!! :wink:

I think I posted this before, but Handirifle had Lee Shaver build a false tang for his BC.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=52990&highlight=soule+sight

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=49537&highlight=soule+sight

http://handirifle.com/articles/mybuffalo.htm
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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2006, 07:54:28 AM »
If yer havin problems with getting those links open, I am too!! Here's Jon's profile so you can email him.

Tim

http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=859
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2006, 02:52:28 PM »
Thanks for that Tim.

I bet you thought I was kidding when I said I would tie-wrap it onto the rifle, eh? I use the current sights to line up and layout the position of the tang sight. The second picture is thru the 2 peepers and you can just make out the peep aperature in the front sight.

So far my opinion of that tang sight is that it is one of the true bargains in gun accessories. I can leave the williams in place and use the tang or leave it folded down. I am taking it to Alaska in a couple of weeks where I will have some rocks to plink at close to a thousand yards out. Yaaay.




I have been thinking about making a sleeve around the stock bolt, and welding a couple of 10-24 nuts to it, then bolting through the stock and into that sleeve.

If this is a really crazy idea please stop be before I get started. The only downside I can imagine is the side thrust added to the bolt in tension. I don't think it could amount to a lot, but little things can make big changes, or so I've been told.  :grin:

Regards,

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2006, 04:49:18 PM »
I think ya got a great idea there, maybe an alternative would be to use thick wall tubing and just drill and tap it. Finding the tubing locally might be a problem, tho. :? Steel tubing ½"OD x .370"ID would work with a little honing of the inside or a bit of filing on the shank of the stock bolt!! :wink:

Tim

http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/hrsteel2.phtml?page=rndtube&LimAcc=$LimAcc
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2006, 02:48:59 PM »
It was hot out yesterday so I put 3 coats of Hi Heat flat black BBQ paint on the BC's barrel. I let it set up for 24 hours and then put carnuba wax on it. It's slick as glass and looks much better than the thin blueing. The paint actually filled the lathe marks so the barrel looks better finished.

While the gun was apart I drilled for the tang base and attached it with wood screws. Not a lot of meat there to work with. It looks bad but it's going to let me do some shooting with it, and develop a better method of attachment.

The base is attached directly to the top. If it were inletted the screws would not have enough wood to hold a screw. I almost think I could drill and tap right thru the bolt, and screw the base down with something like 10-32s. It's not ideal because the bolt is in tension, but I don't think it's a deal killer either.

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2006, 03:12:43 PM »
How bout inletting and bedding a piece of steel or brass that's been pre drilled and tapped for the sight base??? Use epoxy for the bedding so the "implant" becomes one with the stock and makes it stronger than just the wood.

There's gotta be a way!! :grin:

Tim
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Offline Grizz_

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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2006, 03:24:16 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
How bout inletting and bedding a piece of steel or brass that's been pre drilled and tapped for the sight base??? Use epoxy for the bedding so the "implant" becomes one with the stock and makes it stronger than just the wood.

There's gotta be a way!! :grin:

Tim

That's a good one Tim,

Thanks, that's the right direction. I can make it extend under the top of the receiver for additional stabiltiy.

I LIKE IT! I will get that going as soon as I get back from AK. Thank you.

Grizz
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Grizz

Offline dodd3

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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2006, 03:03:03 AM »
grizz heres a pic of my h&r shikari with a short version of your sight mounted onthe wrist of the stock it has a pice of steel inletted in to the wrist so that the base of the sight is recessed as well but if i did it again i woul have it so the sight base was not recessed as you loose about a 1/4 inch in hight ajustment.
bernie :D




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Offline quickdtoo

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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2006, 05:31:20 AM »
Grizz, while you're inletting and bedding, bed the stock to the frame, Fred has info on that subject on his web site, link is in the FAQ.

Have a great trip!! :D

Tim
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