Author Topic: BUFFALO CLASSIC-SEARCHING FOR A GUNSMITH (Read 2293 times)

EDELWEISS · « **on:** June 14, 2006, 02:36:33 AM »

Forgive me guys, Ive posted a similar request on Accurate Reloading and they pointed me to this forum. Ive pretty much decided that I HAVE to HAVE a Buffalo Classic. This is becoming an obsession; BUT I want to have some modifications done sooner than later. Ofcourse I'll shoot it first and then decide on the the final jobs; but Id like to make it more personal

Its a great buy which is why I first considered it; but Id like to make it more "19th century". Id like to add a bit of curl to the hammer and some rollover to the barrel release, sort of like a side lever shotgun. Id like to add a bit of "flair", the hammer and lever changes are just cosmetic. Id also want to change the sights.

Ive seen pics with tang sight that looks outstanding, and also a folding buckhorn/ladder sight that fits the existinging screw holes. That looks promising and I can do it myself. Ive also been thinking about a long brass telescope. I seen them in 18 and 32 inches. The 32 inch model is calling to me. The problem is that scope base is flat for octagonal barrels. Dixie says it can be contored; but thats way beyond my ability.

I need a gunsmith that will do the work! I live in the Peoples Republik of Maryland. Here thay call mounting and boresighting a scope gunsmithing. I dont have any ideas on a smith. HELP!

Im also thinking about ordering a second barrel for reboaring to 45-120. Id love to be able to special order the second barrel at the same time. Does anybody know if the manufacturer will sell directly to a dealer for special orders, that way I wouldnt have to send the reciever back???

Hammerspur · « **Reply #1 on:** June 14, 2006, 02:54:00 AM »

Welcome to the fold!

I like your thinking on this, many cosmetic improvements are ergonomic ones as well, IMO! :-)

Although I've not yet used him, gunsmith Wayne York comes highly recomended by our knowledgable moderators, Mac and Quick:

http://home.earthlink.net/~oregunsmithing/index.html

Check out the 'stickies' for some details of service for these rifles and avail yourself of the 'search' feature to research lots of useful info covering a myriad of details in terms of parts interchangability and after-market accessories, etc.

Steve

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:08:30 AM »

Welcome aboard!

What Steve said, and I'll add that H&R won't sell a barrel to anyone without fitting it to a frame.

Tim
aka Wrongtarget :wink:

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #3 on:** June 14, 2006, 05:57:21 AM »

Thanks for the quick response. I'll give Wayne a call. I had heard the company wont sell a barrel without fitting it; thats why I was hoping they might sell the gun directly to my dealer as a custom order with two 45-70 barrels already fitted. Then I can send one off for rechamber to 45-120, and scope fitting; while I play with the 45-70 and other sights.

Do you know if they sell parts directly? If so I might try searching around for a metal shop to add some stock that I can play with a dremel tool. Are the other stocks a simple fit to the BC frame? I was thinking about a BC with a little extra grip area.

Any other ideas??? An octagonal barrel would be nice... I also was thinking about a replacment trigger guard for some additional flair, pehaps something with a "shutzenfest" spirit; but tastfully understated...

I dont want to "tart" it up, (well not too much). Everything Ive heard and seen suggests to me that it would be a great alternative to a Sharps or Rolling Block at significantly less cost even with the make over. For me the planning is just as important as the final result. Im already thinking about the oak and leather hard case with lots of destination lables on it. . .

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** June 14, 2006, 06:08:28 AM »

All NEF/H&R stocks will fit the BC frames because all frames, both SB1(shotgun/rimfire) and SB2(rifle) are of the same design, although of different material strength, with the exception of the 10ga.

Parts can be purchased from H&R, Brownell's and Numrich, there's a parts price list and order instructions for H&R parts in the FAQ and Helps sticky.

Parts available include steel trigger guards and forend spacers, those parts on a factory BC are plastic.

Tim

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2006, 12:50:57 PM »

I just had another thought on who might be able to accomodate you in your quest, Lee Shaver may do the kind of work you seek, not sure, but it would be worth checking with him. Not to take away anything from Wayne, but I don't know if he does that kind of work.

Tim

http://egunsmith.com/

Victor3 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 15, 2006, 02:46:12 AM »

You might want to add up all of the cost of what you want to have a smith do to your H&R and see if you really want to pay for it all. What you have suggested won't be cheap. If you have your heart set on an H&R go for it, but you should take a long look before diving in and see if you really want to pay for (And wait for) that kind of work to be done. In the end, I doubt that there will be any $$$ savings over something similar you might like that Pedersoli offers "off the shelf."

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/

cheatermk3 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 15, 2006, 03:38:26 AM »

"...In the end, I doubt that there will be any $$$ savings over something similar you might like that Pedersoli offers "off the shelf."

A switch-barrel pedersoli?

Steelbanger · « **Reply #8 on:** June 15, 2006, 05:13:13 AM »

Cheatermk3 . . . Excellent point.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** June 15, 2006, 06:04:02 AM »

Buffalo Arms has a nice selection of firearms to admire for anyone intested in what and why EDELWEISS is interested in this project.

Tim

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,135.html

Fred M · « **Reply #10 on:** June 15, 2006, 01:52:23 PM »

Edel-Weiss.
Are you from Barvarian Alps that you have chosen the name of this rare alpine mountain flower?

There is not too much you can do with a Handi. You can install a tang sight and a globe front sight with a spirit bubble.

The hammer is already overloaded and further extensions or weight would give you ignition trouble. The spring would not handle it.

The rack and pinion barrel latch could be modified to a side lever or an under leaver with a pull rod and a retaining latch.

Why did H&R not do that, with the leaver latched in place it would keep the barrel latch in place and prevent vertical stringing. As it is only a flimsy little spring is holding the barrel latch in place.

There is no room for a double set trigger, even a single set trigger would mean a complete new trigger system.

If you want a classic buffelo rifle with an octagon barrel the Handi is not the plarform to use because I don't think the 45-70 Handi barrel is thick enough to make into octagon. I tured a 24" 223 bull barrel into octagon.

But the action could be stubbed with a 1.11" barrel and then machined octagon. Or buy a tapered octagon barrel and stub it into the actiom.

By the time you do all that you are into 2000 bucks? For this you can buy a fine Sharps with most of the goodies you like.

The Handi BC is just fine the way it is notwithstanding its frugal design.

John Boy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 15, 2006, 04:06:20 PM »

Edelweiss - If you are willing to put that kind of $$$ into the BC, my suggestion is to look around for a Wurfflein Single Shot. This rifle is the closest looking tip-up that there is to the BC. Money invested is a nice collector's piece is money well spent.
http://www.pbase.com/halp/wuffsales

Might add - a 45-120 on an 8 lb rifle is going to back you into the next county :wink:

Nrut · « **Reply #12 on:** June 15, 2006, 05:27:01 PM »

John Boy ...I never heard of a Wurfflein Single Shot before...beautiful rifle...thanks for posting the link...

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #13 on:** June 16, 2006, 09:55:58 AM »

Ok guys you're making alot of sense. Im not trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. The snob in me always walked past the "Handies", thinking they cant be as good as a Ruger #1. That's a matter for another discussion; BUT they're not $1000.oo either. The same thought comes to mind about the Sharps, Rolling Blocks and various Hi/Low Walls. I love them all and there's "lust in my heart" for a Quigly; but dust in my wallet.

Soooo, here's my thinking, I can get a BC for around $300.oo and a 32 inch brass scope for about the same. I need a gunsmith to fit the scope because it has a flat bottom mount (for octagonal barrels). Hopefully that wont cost as much as a house payment.

I'll leave it in 45-70 for now. If its a good shooter like you guys say, then I'll add an extra barrel with a folding Buckhorn sight and maybe send the scoped barrel for rechambering to 45-120. If I do eventually go for the 45-120, Im guessing some lead might find its way into the butt and handguard.

What you all said about the adding weight to the hammer makes so much sense that Im embarrassed that I missed it. I havent given up on it or the sidelever; but Im willing to set it aside until I can work out the other issues.

For those who wondered, one grandfather was a from the Austrian Alps and the other was Dutch / Bore

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #14 on:** June 16, 2006, 10:26:27 AM »

........and now Im really embarassed. Seems I was thinking too much about guns and typing to fast; my mother's family is Boer. If you listen to the old stories they were in the 'South' from the begining. I gather thats more wishful than not; still it does make for some interesting looks when a Caucasian guy says hes African-American...

John Boy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 16, 2006, 02:53:42 PM »

Nrut (neat handle by the way) ... here's another 'unheard of' neat single shot: Milton Farrow's 1884 ...
http://cap-n-ball.com/farrow.htm
He also revised the innards with his 1887 patent

Quote

I can get a BC for around $300.oo and a 32 inch brass scope for about the same

Edelweiss, you may want to do some checking around on the Internet. Here's MVA's, how about 900 BIG ONES!
http://www.montanavintagearms.com/scopes.html
Then add the mounts for another 450 Pesos, plus installation cost.

So, now your way past the cost of 'your lust' for a Quigley, even with a vernier rear sight and into the Shiloh price range. :roll:

Here's a suggestion, Buy the BC, take the Williams sight off it, spend 170 bucks and put a ladder on it or a vernier. Go to the range and you'll be able to happily shoot 50 - 500 yards.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** June 16, 2006, 03:24:18 PM »

Dixie has traditional scopes w/mounts for less than $300.

Tim

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=4040&osCsid=d3c2802ff9203e0020093f3223e2d3c1

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=4041&osCsid=d3c2802ff9203e0020093f3223e2d3c1

dodd3 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 17, 2006, 03:52:17 AM »

edelweiss click on the link it is a leatherwood malcolm style scope in a test they are much beter than the ones from dixie much beter widage and elevation ajustment.it also has to have a rear dovetail cut in the barrel much beter idea .if you ever sell the scope and fit open sights you already have a dovetail.
http://keyword.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=leatherwood+malcolm+style+scopes&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D5e790265a3eee448%26clickedItemRank%3D4%26userQuery%3Dleatherwood%2Bmalcolm%2Bstyle%2Bscopes%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.hpmuzzleloading.com%252FWork-MMP.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hpmuzzleloading.com%2FWork-MMP.html
bernie

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #18 on:** June 17, 2006, 11:16:17 AM »

Thanks again. I used a dog eared old copy of DGW catalog to plan this project, never thinking that there might be newer scopes and stuff available. Sooo. I jumped a bit to quick and ordered the DIXIE Brass 32 inch scope. I'll check it out when it comes if its not quality my next step will be the Leatherwood Malcom scope. My plan always was to have it mounted off set to the left anyway so the dove tails dont really help but then Im willing to make changes to the project.

The one advantage to the DIXIE brass scope is the cost so I'll have to take a close look at its quality.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2006, 10:02:31 AM »

Well guys, in case anyone is still interested in this saga, the DGW Brass scope arrived yesterday. I'd be really excited about it if I hadn't seem the other options. Im undecided at this point. If I can get my local gunsmith to fit it, I think I might just keep it. BUT that was really the point of this thread, there arent many REAL gunsmiths here in the "Peoples Republik of Maryland". Most think them selves masters when they boresight a scope. Drilling and tapping seems a lost art here.

If no one local will take on the job, I think I'll probably exchange the brass DGW scope for the Wm Malcolm Leatherwood optics model, and send it to one of the smiths you recomended. The leatherwood is about $175 more; but its probably worth it. Long ago I carried a M21 with a Leatherwood scope and never had a complaint about the optics.

Im still undecided about the re-chamber to 45-120; but that can wait until the sight issue is resolved.

Fred M · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:40:48 AM »

Edelweiss

Anyone with a lathe and a milling machine should be able to make two flat top bases. That is not to say you cant make them by hand. I make bases by hand all the time. It takes a lot of time but not impossible.

The heigth of the bases can be calculated from a ballistics chart or from test firing.

handirifle · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:51:20 AM »

Like quick said, use Lee Shaver, I did and he does excellent work. Here is the tang sight he mounted on mine.

handirifle · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:53:08 AM »

Here is another view.

SwedeNelson · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2006, 02:50:41 PM »

Edelweiss
I'm a lercker on this sight
one of the first times for me to post!
Just wanted to share some pic's of my rifles with you
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1243
This is my Custom 38/55 Octagon Bager Barrel with a 32" brass DGW scope and MVA mounts.
The stock DGW mounts are no good at all.
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1244
MVA Rear Mount
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1245
MVA Front Mount with Pope adapter
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1246
My 357Max with 18" brass DGW scope and MVA mounts.
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1247
This is my Custom 40/65 with a Browning tang sight
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/album_pic.php?pic_id=1248
Close up of rear sight

Hope this gives you some insight as to what you can do. :lol:
Swede Nelson

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2006, 03:04:37 PM »

Welcome aboard,Swede!!

Thanks for sharing!! Nice looking rifles!!

Tim

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2006, 04:16:13 PM »

Thanks Swede! Thats a great looking rig! Im learning alot from you guys. The DGW scope looks usable to me, but your right the mounts are crude at best. Who did your work? That was genius using the MVA mounts. Do you recall how much they cost? The octagonal barrel is a nice touch also. Are you willing to share your gunsmith? Thanks again!

SwedeNelson · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2006, 05:55:35 PM »

Edelweiss

The MVA mounts are more than a Leatherwood scope!
The last set I got was $538.00 thats with the Pope adapter.
But like you I already had the DGW scope.
It was just a way to use the DGW scope and not take a loss on it
(Good money after Bad?)

Making barrels for the SB2 is another story also!
I have a file about it if I can find a place to put it, so I can share it with
the board.

Thanks all for the welcome

Swede Nelson

John Boy · « **Reply #27 on:** June 25, 2006, 09:27:02 AM »

Quote

I need a gunsmith that will do the work! I live in the Peoples Republik of Maryland.

Edelweiss: Twenty Six posts later and your original question
(and the purpose for your post) has never been answered.

OK, here is a smith up the road from you. Not only is he a skilled gunsmith and machinist,
he is very knowledgeable of the firearms industry.

You might want to contact him and get some price estimates for the
work you want done based on all the excellent advise that the folks
have provided to you.

New Castle Gunsmithing
Cayley J Carson aka Hangin Dawg
1 LaSalle Rd
New Castle, DE 19720
t18man@bellatlantic.net
(302) 322-1763
(302) 540-8528 ... Cell
(302) 328-2561 ... Fax

And ... it sure would be easier to read this thread
if the very long lines of characters were pruned into
shorter character lines by those that posted them

SwedeNelson · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2006, 09:14:02 AM »

Edelweiss

Just checking to see how your project is coming along.

Best Regards
Swede Nelson

EDELWEISS · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2006, 06:29:11 AM »

THANKS fo asking, here's the lastest. I bought a "NEW" Buffalo Classic from GUNBROKER.COM. The smith/shop owner rechambered to 45-90. He says its never been sold or fired. Havent seen it yet; but the price too good to pass. We are discussing several of my modifications, including his custom mounts for the Dixie scope and a schuetzen style butt plate and possibly trigger guard. He seems receptive. We had a good initial conversation and Im waiting for his prices before I make the final decision.