No 1 Mk3 SMLE .35 Territorian - EDIT, progress report

[Jacko]

I've been suffering from Lee Enfield Separation Anxiety disorder as I recently sold an unissued No1 Mk 3 SMLE with matching numbers that was in very good condition back to a great mate who I'd bought it from a long while ago. I'd been using it at the range or hunting for many years. He'll turn it into a Safe Queen sure as eggs

In a couple of weeks time for the cost of my time making another mate a Leather Butt Stock Cover with cartridge loops and a knife sheath I will be taking delivery of a clapped out No 1 Mk3 with a sporterised stock. I've got money burning a hole in my pocket until I can get the donor action to my Gunsmith to start what should be a relatively simple and inexpensive conversion from the .303 to 303.35 or as it's known in Australia .35 Territorian. I want a knock about reliable hunting rifle that packs a punch on game up to Scrub Bulls. A 10 shot magazine is comforting as well as handy for bombing up mobs of Feral Pigs. A Gunsmith in New Zealand that I made enquiry's with reckons a 303.35 based on a No1 Mk 3 action and 18" barrel should be good for 2400 fps with a 250 Jacketed bullet Not sure about that - 2200fps from a 22" barrel would be pushing it I'd guess

I have done plenty of research and one issue I've been warned about by a fella I tracked down is that a standard .35 cal neck and throat on the rifle may cause issues with the thinner standard .303 brass and excess clearances , I'll talk to my Gunsmith about this , any suggestions folks?

I plan to have a 22" barrel and shoot mostly 250gr Jacketed bullets and don't rule out I may cast my own and paper patch, we'll see. I was thinking about a 1 in 10" or 12" twist. I have thousands of 180gr rnfp  commercial hard cast coated bullets on hand I use in my .357 Lever rifle and don't rule out working out some light loads for cheap plinking or shooting smaller game like Goats and Pigs with - What are the chances a twist rate like 1 in 10" or 12" will stabilize these light for caliber pills?

My research also indicates reloading die's are no real problem either as all I need to do is get a set of Lee RGB .303 die's and have em bored out to .35 cal and replace the screws / buttons, I guess I'll look for another set of die's for perhaps a set of used  .357 die's and scrounge the fittings from them to fit to the modified .303 dies. I have not checked out mobs like Simplex yet who may be able to make me a set or even have some on hand - Any experience to share folks?

I like open sights, even though I'm starting to get older and my eyes aren't like new I would like a ramp mounted front blade and a receiver mounted peep. I way and the terrain I hunt mean 100 yards is a long long shot. Quick shots are the norm

I'll either be reworking and restoring the bubba'd wood from the donor rifle or the same of a unbubba'd stock set I'll find about the place myself. Expensive Custom wood or even the commercially available synthetics holds little interest. I like straight grips, will be fitting a recoil pad.

Load Data - this has been interesting, none out there, but the fella I tracked down that owns one of these rifles suggested some that is very close to what I figured. I was looking at starting loads about 10% lower than .356 Win Data as posted on the ADI website

Any experiences anyone can share would be greatly appreciated

I'll post pics of my .35 Territorian when it's completed

regards Jacko

[Mikey]

Jacko:  Your 35 Territorian sounds like a great brush cartridge although it is too bad there isn't any real load data available for you but, your cartridge may be similar enough to one of the Epps cartridges (Canada) as I believe Epps modified the 303 (or 7.7x56mm as I recall) into at least one 35 caliber rifle cartridge.  

I would hope a search for Epps would give you some data.  

I can easily understand anyone's desire for a customized mil-surp in a custom caliber but would that cartridge really be any more effective than the 3 ought 3??  Heck, for that matter you could rebarrel to the 38-55, or the 375 Winchester.  I don't know if you could re-bbl to the 358 Winchester (rimless case?) but it might be worth a thought.  jmtcw.

[Jacko]

Mickey, the action is not suitable for the .358, perhaps if I found an Ishapore. I am aware of Mr Epps and his work - impressive , but I wanted a home grown Wildcat. I have become aware that the 303.35 is used in New Zealand aswell, set up as a brush gun with an 18" barrel

I have always wanted a Lee Enfield No 1 Mk3 .303 Wildcat and while my wife's guard is down - why not

More thump than the original .303- 180 gr bullet @ 2400 =  2303 ft#
                                        303.35 - 250 gr bullet @ 2200 =  2687 ft#

One Aussie I exchanged emails with has a 303.35 based on a No 4 action and he puts his in .356 / .358 Winchester territory.

If I loaded a 180 gr .358 bullet to duplicate .303 ballistics I can do so with less pressure so if my understanding is correct I'm driving a heavier bullet at similar velocity and similar pressure due to the increase in bore diameter.

At least in this neck of the woods a greater range of projectiles are available over the counter.

I looked long and hard at rebarrelling to .444 Marlin, .405 Winchester , 375.444 , 416 strauss [ .3oh blown out to 416 ] and 375.303 - all had one major drawback - unreliable feeding from the magazine and EXPENSIVE modifications to make them feed

I exchanged emails or PM's with some Gunsmiths who had done conversions or folks who own most of the above and all reported feeding issues, 2 or 3 shot magazines or single shot rifles.

It boiled down to buying a P14 action for best results with the majority of the other calibre options and I really like No 1 Mk3's

regards Jacko

[BBF]

If that rifle can stabilize 250 gr bullets there will be no problem with the lighter and shorter bullets IMO

[AtlLaw]

I don't have anything to add there Jacko, but I'll be reading this thread with interest!     My first centerfire rifle was a Savage made No.4 my Daddy bought me.  Heck, the rifle was almost as long as I was tall!     Had a soft spot for the .303 Brit ever since.

Keep us informed!   

[Jacko]

G/Day folks - I know this thread is useless with pics - sorry none of mine but here's a picture of another fella's version and a link to a mob in New Zealand I was sorely tempted to have put my rifle together as it was this link that made my mind up http://www.statusguns.com/status_35_303.htm

Late Yesterday morning I went and saw my Gunsmith and ordered a MAB No5 profile barrel. It will be cut to 22"

[Jacko]

Afternoon folks. Called into Pine Rivers Gunshop a couple of days ago for a further progress report on how my 303.35 is going.

2 weeks ago they had not started it, today the rifle is sitting in a job tray, with everything done except the barrel and action blued. Drilled and tapped for the Recknagel Sights, scope mount, barrel docked to 22", crowned and most importantly chambered. Its all been fitted together and checked out fine and the synthetic stock's barrel channel opened out. They will not be blue it for a few more weeks yet as they have a couple more jobs that will be ready for the Blueing tank soon. So with luck I'll have shortly after Christmas.

The Gunsmith was telling me that he run a file over the base of the Lee RGB dies and it did not touch it. He said he is not willing to run a reamer into the dies but instead will use either a masonry bit sharpened to a specific angle to assist with reaming the die or a Titanium drill bit. He told me the neck / throat of my chamber is .385 and the reamer was .380. From memory my Remington Brass Dummy rounds where .378 / .379. Remington brass is very thin, I have some Highland brass that is much thicker but it's not available locally, you must buy it as loaded .303 ammo.

A chap who has a 303.35 and given me some advice and loads warned me the only issue he has with his rifle is that the mob in South Australia that chambered his rifle have the neck / throat quite oversize and his fired cases are .388 / .389 so he has to work his brass more than he likes to neck size.

Still no photo's, when the Rifles finished. I remembered the barrels No 5 profile much larger than it actually is which is somewhat of a relief as I do like a little heft in my Rifles for Off hand shooting but not full on muzzle heavy which is what my hazy memeory had imagined in the dimness of time.

I have been thinking about attempting to make my own Timber stock from Queensland Maple as a link to the Rifles past, perhaps join the local woodworking club etc so I have access to quaity tools. I would try to replicate a Lee Speed stock. In the mean while I will reshape and refinish the military stockset and see if I'm happy with this instead of the Synthetic stock as a stopgap.

A mate has stepped in and attempted to motivate my in next project - he gave me 50 rounds of loaded 45.70 ammo , 90 odd once fired cases, a red bullet lube and a hundred or so 500 gr cast projectiles. AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH - The paints not even dry on this one.

After a few days my memory is fading, should have written the details down at the time so if something does not ring true it's my lack of knowledge and my memory.
regards Jacko

[EVOC ONE]

Thanks much for the update.  Looking forward to seeing pictures of the final product.