Author Topic: 1.5 inch Hughes breechloading cannon? (Read 5269 times)

olevern2 · « **on:** March 03, 2011, 12:22:42 PM »

Would there be any legal impediment preventing someone from replicating the Hughes inch and a half breechloading cannon produced during the civil war, and what would it likely cost?

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2011, 12:46:38 PM »

is it legal ?? yes, you would have to contact the n-ssa team that just built a full scale replica of that gun and shot it at nationals, it looks great. i will try to find him at the next nationals.

rick bryan

olevern2 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2011, 12:50:42 PM »

Thanks for the quick response.
If you are able to contact someone from the team that reproduced the gun, please p.m. me here with contact info.
Thanks again

guardsgunner · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:31:23 PM »

olevern2
There is some info on that gun if you do a search here on this site, along with some photo's. There is also a short video of the full size repro being fired here.
http://skirmishnotes.com/artillery/hughes-cannon-makes-noise-impresses/

Cost would greatly depend on your skill level and obtainable tools.

Bob

dominick · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2011, 02:47:16 AM »

This may have been posted a while ago but here's a video of a Hughes in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4goqGlku3hE

olevern2 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2011, 10:27:52 AM »

Thanks, Dom, great video

Mike H. · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2011, 02:55:48 PM »

If one of you builders start making those barrels, even smooth bore at a reduced scale, put me down for one. Very nice.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #7 on:** March 06, 2011, 03:31:22 PM »

water cooled, no problem, it the breach loader i would have trouble with, without having a milling machine, but hell i will give it a try. .75 cal. at first, hell, then maybe a full scale. i think you have to do the barrel in two peices anyway, the barrel then the breach block. I will have to take some measurements off of that gun at the next nationals. in the spring.

rick bryan

Artilleryman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:53:09 AM »

Rick I don't think that gun will be at the spring nationals as the unit that uses it is one of several that left that organization last year.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:16:59 AM »

One of these days I need to finish the 1/3 scale Hughes and Ellsworth barrels behind the lathe on the beench. Always seem to find something else that interest me.

olevern2 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:55:46 AM »

Can anybody get me the specs or drawings for the Hughes barrel and action? I'd like to attempt one (or 6)
Olevern2

guardsgunner · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2011, 09:12:24 AM »

Unfortunetly ,I lost my project book shortly after completing the first gun. Most of the history stuff and measurements were in it. Never made drawings.
The owner was nice enough to let us come and measure it. (7hr. drive) might be able to contact him through Gun Broker . com where the gun is now for sale.

Bob

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:05:31 PM »

I would send you some money 50 bucks or so for fuel, if i can get a copy of prints, there are no known working plans for that gun that i have found, I tried every gun builder i know, and AOP

Mike H. · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:43:12 PM »

Quote from: guardsgunner on March 08, 2011, 09:12:24 AM

Unfortunetly ,I lost my project book shortly after completing the first gun. Most of the history stuff and measurements were in it. Never made drawings.
The owner was nice enough to let us come and measure it. (7hr. drive) might be able to contact him through Gun Broker . com where the gun is now for sale.

Bob

For a small $69,950 opening bid we could buy it. It has been on there for a good while, with the opening bid ticking downward. I just wrote to him and asked if he would provide a copy of whatever drawings, notes and photos he has, for a reasonable charge for his trouble. We'll see.

Mike H. · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:55:12 PM »

A little more here: http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/1.5_inch_Hughes_Breechloading_Cannon

olevern2 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:57:42 PM »

Mike, contacted the seller thru Gunbroker and his answer to a request for help with documentation was to tell me that the documentation went with the gun, buy the gun, get the documentation.

Mike H. · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2011, 03:03:23 PM »

I just got back the following, similar message:

The Cannon SuperStore
Sorry Mike,

We can't do that at this time. I am 12,000 miles away for one thing buying cannons in SE Asia and we also have some strong interest in the original.

If is sells, we can give your contact information to the buyer and let them decide if they want to supply that.

The research is not going to be copied for sure - as it goes with the cannon.

Take care,
Ed

SLEEPY BEEPER · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2011, 01:43:11 PM »

You could use these dimensions for the barrel. I haven't heard of anybody that will prove them wrong (Note they are in inches and fraction of inches). The rest of the information can be had by carefully analyzing the pictures available.

olevern2 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 04:14:56 PM »

Thanks, Sleepy,
appreciate the help
olevern2

Story · « **Reply #19 on:** September 08, 2012, 03:06:38 PM »

Quote from: SLEEPY BEEPER on March 12, 2011, 01:43:11 PM

You could use these dimensions for the barrel. I haven't heard of anybody that will prove them wrong (Note they are in inches and fraction of inches). The rest of the information can be had by carefully analyzing the pictures available.

I know this is an ancient thread, but has anyone ever successfully built a scale version - say, with a .50 caliber barrel?

de_lok · « **Reply #20 on:** September 08, 2012, 06:26:26 PM »

Try this link............ Cute .36 cal..................

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/259591/pid/1032333/post/last/m/1/

guardsgunner · « **Reply #21 on:** September 08, 2012, 10:03:24 PM »

That is neat. I will have to make a scale model one of these days.

The Jeff · « **Reply #22 on:** September 09, 2012, 04:06:58 AM »

It's piqued my interest as well, although I've got about 4 different ideas for my next model.

If one were to make a replica, how would you go about determining if your locking lugs were safe? Calculate the bolt thrust and shear strength of the bolt material?

Victor3 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2012, 10:26:48 PM »

Quote from: The Jeff on September 09, 2012, 04:06:58 AM

If one were to make a replica, how would you go about determining if your locking lugs were safe? Calculate the bolt thrust and shear strength of the bolt material?

Yes. Years back I did some seat-of-the-pants (scaling online pics using the bore for reference) calculations and concluded that if somewhat accurately scaled and correctly constructed, just about any modern low-carbon steel for the bolt and receiver would make it plenty more than strong enough.

However, that would only apply if one remembers to turn the bolt to the locked position before firing. Seeing as how this design isn't like a modern bolt-action rifle that can't fire without the bolt fully closed, I'd want to incorporate some kind of safety feature to prevent a catastrostrophalogical failure to communicate.

P.S. - If one were wanting to build a 1/2 scale Hughes, a rifled 12 ga barrel would be just a hair under correct bore diameter.

Double D · « **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2012, 06:21:27 AM »

Quote from: Victor3 on September 09, 2012, 10:26:48 PM

catastrostrophalogical

Great word Victor!!!! I love it!!!!

de_lok · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2012, 03:30:20 PM »

Of the originals made there evidently was a problem with them "blowing up". Could have been the "catastrophalogical failure to communicate" issue Victor3 mentioned! I would like to make a scale model of this cannon (3/4 bore maybe) but would definately have to work out some type of lockout devise before the first chip is turned, An inline 209 ignition like in many muzzle loaders comes to mind. It could have a "dummy" nipple and hammer for looks, or the hammer mounted on a rotating spring loaded plate that will only aline with the nipple when locked up............................ just some thoughts...........
Dewayne

Victor3 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:03:25 PM »

Quote from: Double D on September 10, 2012, 06:21:27 AM

Quote from: Victor3 on September 09, 2012, 10:26:48 PM

catastrostrophalogical

Great word Victor!!!! I love it!!!!

Dang it.... I suspected my new spell checker was a bit off.

Victor3 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 10, 2012, 11:35:57 PM »

Quote from: de_lok on September 10, 2012, 03:30:20 PM

Of the originals made there evidently was a problem with them "blowing up". Could have been the "catastrophalogical failure to communicate" issue Victor3 mentioned! I would like to make a scale model of this cannon (3/4 bore maybe) but would definately have to work out some type of lockout devise before the first chip is turned, An inline 209 ignition like in many muzzle loaders comes to mind. It could have a "dummy" nipple and hammer for looks, or the hammer mounted on a rotating spring loaded plate that will only aline with the nipple when locked up............................ just some thoughts...........
Dewayne

I was thinking about maybe making the bolt long, causing the bolt face to go past the vent in the barrel about 1/2". A hole would be drilled on the C/L of the bolt face (like a firing pin hole), then drill another at 90 degrees to meet it through the OD of the bolt. This hole would be located so as to line up with the vent in the barrel when the bolt is fully closed. This would communicate fire from the ignition device from the barrel vent through to the center of the bolt and into the rear of the foil-wrapped charge (which would be pricked before loading, or constructed with a nitrated paper base). If the bolt wasn't closed, the path would be blocked and it wouldn't fire.

This setup would most likely require priming of the vent to make it fire reliably.

de_lok · « **Reply #28 on:** September 11, 2012, 03:32:58 AM »

I also thought of that Idea. The issue I was afraid of is the possibility of gas leaking similar to chain firing in cap-n-ball revolvers. The clearance needed to allow the bolt to rotate freely would allow a spark to travel past and thru the vent. I know it would be a slim chance, but still possible. A foolproof way to seal against gas (spark) leak and I like your idea much better.

I thought of this while making this response: A spring loaded plunger rod actuated by cam action from one side locking lug is another idea. The pin would be larger than the vent bore and parrellel to axis of bore, spring loaded to block vent when bolt is unlocked and opened when locked. More difficult to machine but all moving parts are inside the barrel out of sight. It would also have to have a positive seal. Just another idea........................
Dewayne

flagman1776 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 11, 2012, 03:38:47 AM »

What about an external sleeve/collar, operated by the rotation of the bolt? The collar would cover the vent/touch hole when the bolt is not closed. Pretty much the same idea as expressed earlier but external rather than internal. A really clever machinist could build the reciever in 2 pieces that equal the whole of the original so appearances are intact.