.35 Whelen/Speer 220 grain flat point

[Rummer]

Anybody have any experience with the speer 220 grain flat point?

I am having a hard time finding loading data (my speer manual is rather old and doesn't list this bullet, their website was less than helpful).

I am helping a buddy develop loads for his new whelen and he was interested in this bullet.

John

[Daveinthebush]

From Big Bore Rifles and Cartridages by Wolfe

55.0 IMR 4064 2,601 fps CCI 200 primer
58.5 IMR 4350 2,229 fps CCI 200 primer
60    IMR 4350 2,555 fps R-9 1/2 primer
56    IMR 4320 2,555 fps R-9 1/2 primer
55    IMR 4895 2,583 fps R-9 1/2 primer

Any load for the 225 grain Sierra you should be able to use for the 220.

Hope this helps.  Should be a great blackbear and elk round.

[Steelhead]

I am using 55grains of IMR-4064 with that bullet in my rifle. I get almost 2500fps with that load (20" barrel). I have started using it as my whitetail load as the 225 Ballistic Tip has proven to be TOO TOUGH for smaller deer.  Have yet to plunk a deer with one, but I have about another 7 weeks to hunt.

[Graybeard]

The Speer .358" 220 FN is intended for use in the .356 Win. in lever guns. I'd expect it to be a bit soft for full Whelen velocity especially on larger game. Likely quite destructive on deer.

As to the comment regarding the Nosler 225 BT I'm surprised you think it too hard. I've used it in the .358 JDJ at 2300 fps at muzzle and taken deer and turkey both with it. I felt it performed flawlessly on both. It's the bullet I intend to use in my Whelen on deer and likely even hogs.

[Steelhead]

I realize 1 deer doesn't mean everything. The one I shot was at 40 yards, the bullet slipped between the ribs going in and out. There were 2 bucks and off they ran. I could make a deer out through the trees at about 90 yards, just standing there and flicking it's tail. I assumed it was the other buck. I looked through my bino's and I could see a bullet hole behind the shoulder (this would be the off side). I couldn't get a clear shot, and I didn't want to move closer in fear of spooking him.

Obviously the shot had been placed well, so I waited. In about 3-4 minutes the deer dropped, tried to lift his head and expired. When I dressed him, the lungs were in fine shape except for a .358 caliber hole through both of them. The exit hole was barely bigger then the entrance, if the bullet expanded you can't prove it by me.

I believe they will work fine for bigger game or make sure you nail the shoulder going in, but apparently going through the lungs of a 125 pound deer at 40 yards didn't offer enough resistance for any type of expansion.

For what it is worth I have had VERY good luck with Nosler Partitions on deer in that caliber, both the 225's and 250's. Just thought I would try some of the 220's out for giggles.

[Rummer]

Thanks Guys.  I appreciate the input.

John

[Graybeard]

Wow that was some strange behavior for that BT. Sure not what I'd have expected based on my personal experience with it. I think it does point out the mistake we often make in assuming performance seen one time is necessarily representative of normal performance. Like you my numbers of kills with it is limited enough I'd not want to say with certainty it will always do what I've seen it do. Perhaps I'll get to test it more in my CDL Whelen.

[Rick Teal]

I use 220 grain bullets of my own manufacture.  

These have a longer shank than most standard bullets and have a pure copper jacket.  Because of this I'd expect you to get slightly lower velocities and lower pressures using the Speer (since it has a harder - gilding metal - jacket), however, every rifle is a law unto itself.

I get no pressure signs in my Rem. 7600 with these loads.

57 grains of IMR 4895 for 2645 fps.
55 grains of H335 for 2630 fps.

The 4895 load is more accurate in my rifle.

[GradyL41]

I  have no 35 W loads but here is some comments about bullets from a .358 Win  --the 220 Speer is soft with the jacket opening around the meplat being .018 --at 2407 it go through the shoulder and spine of a 7 Pt -- I shot it with.. as to the 225 Nosler BT-- I have found them too tough also -- I shot a #215 buck at 30 yards bullet diamenter in and out of the chest - lung not terriblely damged - yes it killed the deer "drt" I then shot two anterless deer and both had the same small holes in what ever they hit on the deer -- two of the deer ran a long ways with little blood but were recovered - on an angling shot they show expansion very late just before exit - so I stopped using them even though they were wonderfully accurate - 3" at 310 long steps== this is my experience with them --on larger deer than normal Tenn deer they would probably be fine --but I use the 225 Seirra with notches in the nose btw I tried this with the BTs but expansion was still very slow compared to the Serria or the Speer -- my load was 47 gr of H335 22" barrell and the MV for the BTs was 2400

[Lone Star]

The Speer 220 is actually designed for the .35 Remington.  It predates the .356 by many years; it is in the Speer Number One manual of 1962.  Speer recommends the 220 for deer in the Whelen.

[Whelen Nut]

The 220 Speer FT is a great deer/bear bullet in the 35W and 350RM.  Just don't load it to the max.  Keep it at or below .356/.358Win. velocities.  

The same would be true for the 35cal 200 grainers...if you like venison, that is.  

WN

[pop up]

Sorry for taking so long to jump in the conversation.  Finally realizing that GBO is the place to be.
I use the Speer 220 fp in the Whelen over 60Gr RL15 as a deer and pig medicine.  I have been using it for many years and have never experienced a failure.  I used it last spring on a medium sized pig up north of Crossville, Tn.  The bullet entered behind left ear, went through spine and exited middle of right shoulder.  Bang Flop.  As best as I recall its 5 deer and 4 pigs with this bullet.  I have not been able to get acceptable accuracy with this bullet in the 358 Win, although it works very well in the 350 RM.
In my experience the 220 Speer works as well as the Sierra 225 in the 35 Whelen, but not as well as the Speer 250.  I am pretty much to the point of using the Speer 250 for everything in my 35 Whelen.
PEF

[sharkhunter]

My friend shot them exclusively in his Whelen and they did well on a great number of deer. They seemed a little too explosive for me. I have always shot the 250 grain Speer or Hornady spitzers. I have shot deer to 300+ yards and still get expansion. Never recovered a bullet though. The Nosler partitions will be great also as well as the Barnes Xs. You may want to shoot the 225s in the X bullets just in case the 250s are a little song to stablise with the twist of you rifle. You will do very well with the 35W because it is one of the best rounds you can shoot for about anything. Good shooting.

Dave

Sharps made the west safe for Winchester!