Author Topic: 45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat  (Read 6784 times)

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Offline MikeP

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« on: October 09, 2005, 06:22:02 AM »
I have found what I consider to be the ideal brass to use in the very long 45/410 Contender chamber: the old European metric round introduced in 1900 and still somewhat popular over there in doubles and single shot rifles, the 9.3x74R. These cases are available in the US from Norma and RWS. I got my Norma cases from Midway, and at about a dollar a pop, they are not cheap. However, they are the best solution IÂ’ve found in the long 45/410 chamber, and IÂ’m betting the cases will last for many reloadings based on my preliminary testing results.

I roughly measured my 45/410 chamber and found it is a very long 83mm. It is generously sized to fit the long 3-inch 410 shotgun shell. Since the 45 Colt case is only 32.6 mm in length, you can see the bullet would have to pole-vault over to the rifling to exit the barrel. Not good for accuracy, especially with cast lead bullets, as many have reported.

My next step was to use the .444 Marlin case, which is a respectable 56.5 mm long. Necking up the 444 to 45 creates a 45/444 wildcat round, sometimes called the 450 Mongo. Even though the accuracy of this combination was very much better than the 45 Colt, there was still a long gap between bullet and rifling because of my long 83mm chamber. Also, occasionally the rim of the .444 will get behind the ContenderÂ’s extractor, requiring some hassle to get it out of the barrel after firing. This is not much of a problem at the firing range (I use an unsharpened wooden lead pencil to push the brass out), but in the field where a quick second shot may be needed (gasp!), this procedure is not too appealing to say the least.

As the ultimate answer to shooting bullets accurately and reliably in the 45/410 Contender, I have concluded the old 9.3x74R case to be it. This brass is 74.7 mm long, thus allowing the bullet, especially heavy ones, to essentially extend to the rifling, which is always good for accuracy. This is especially true of cast bullets like I prefer, because cast bullets donÂ’t like Weatherby-type freeboring where the bullet accelerates in the rifling-free bore (chamber) and hits the rifling at high speed, thus causing the relatively soft lead bullets to strip in the bore. ItÂ’s much better to use jacketed bullets in such applications.

To adapt the 9.3x74R case for my cast lead bullets, I first annealed the necks in hot lead  to help the brass accommodate opening up from 37 caliber to 45. I then loaded the cases  with 200-grain cast lead bullets used in my .357. These bullets fit in the unaltered neck finger-tight, which was enough to develop the pressure needed for forming cases. I used 15 grains of Lil Gun to form the cases. The unaltered, new parent case fit into my ContenderÂ’s chamber perfectly. When fired, the case mouth opened up to almost the .45 size needed, and the front end of the brass was kind of wavy due to the parent caseÂ’s original shape. To open the mouth up to .45 for reloading, I put a little case lube on a long Craftsman 6mm socket with a quarter-inch drive, which has a shank which measures right at .45 inch. I used an arbor press to ease the socket in for sizing, and a pair of pliers to remove it. I then used the normal .45 reloading tool to bell the mouth to prevent damaging the base of the bullet or the case when reloading. I crimped the neck lightly after loading.

I use polyester filling, rolled up so that the length and breadth of the empty space in the case between powder and bullet are occupied, thus making the round insensitive to position when shooting.

I wonÂ’t cite my Lil Gun loads for what now is the metric equivalent of a 11.4 x 74R wildcat. I think this gun can be loaded to reliably kill anything on the North American continent. I use a 332-grain Lyman cast bullet, and I will say the gun and cartridge combination is awesome in every sense. With this cartridge, all of the freebore in the long Contender chamber is taken up with a cartridge the size of a cigar.

When you consider that the Contender 45/410 will also shoot full-length 3-inch 410 loads, a more versatile survival weapon does not exist.

As with any wildcatting experimentation, use extreme caution if you decide to create an 11.4x74R in the Contender. Like any wildcat development, you are blazing a new path which can be dangerous.

IÂ’ll be using my 11.4x74R to go after hogs and deer this year. If we had a bear season, IÂ’d use this gun for that too. If I get bored, I can screw in the 410 choke and kill a quail or squirrel for the pot. For such a compact gun in the field, it just doesnÂ’t get any better than that.

Offline EdK

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2005, 05:38:28 AM »
Mike,

All I have to say is thanks for all of the legwork thus far in your R&D of this round. I read this post with great interest as well as some of your comments in other threads (e.g. 450 Mongo).

I have a 14" barrel that I've used only for shotgun rounds thus far. I have another dedicated 45 Colt barrel for centerfire work but I certainly like the idea of using the one barrel effectively for both purposes.

Offline MikeP

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2005, 06:40:14 AM »
Ed, I'm still in the testing phase, having reloaded the cases only twice so far, fireforming and experimenting. I loaded the cases again last night with various powder loads, which I hope to shoot tomorrow. Things look promising relative to, at last, getting the accuracy potential from the rifled barrel in the 45/410. I believe the 9.3x74R brass may be the ideal size that I've been looking for in this chamber.

I was out squirrel hunting yesterday and four big ole hogs walked up on me. I was sitting motionlessly, and they never saw me, but when they got within five yards or so, one of them must have smelled me and "oinked" a couple of times. He moved out about 10 yards away and stood there for a minute,  trying to locate me. Their eyesight is pretty poor and they have a difficult time seeing you if you're not moving. I sure wished I'd had my 11.4x74R then, but with a bolt action .22 long rifle and target loads, they had the upper hand on me. A shot with the .22 LR could have provoked an attack. I let them walk off so I'd be able to do the same. Maybe I'll run into them again under more favorable circumstances, ie, the Contender with 332-grain Lymans and those long, long 74mm cases.

Offline spinafish

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2005, 03:44:21 PM »
very interesting, I am enjoying the .450 Mongo as I am loading it, with the light loads of 5744. I might have to follow you on this new adventure of yours..I like your thinking.  Just keep in mind that you need to remove that choke!, before touching off one of those hog loads!
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Offline MOOSE 4 GOD

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 04:01:37 PM »
Mike: i have just purchased a 45/410 super 16 and shot it today with 3in. #6 shot and love this thing. i have a post asking about the accuracy of the 45 and was wondering about the distance from the smooth to the rifling for the bullet. i do reload but this sounds very interesting and i'm no pro at wildcats. the only thing I've done is 30-30 brass to the 7-30 waters. Someone gave me this sight and like the others I would like to use this gun in one whitetale area that i hunt as a 50 yd. shot is as far as i can shoot. Please keep me informed on how this is going as I am very interested in this load. Thanks so much for your info na dhte best of luck. May god Bless
Benny :D

Offline Racepres

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45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2006, 01:38:45 PM »
How very informative!! And I been using the 303 brit blowed out! Mostly cause the boy has an old 2-3/4 chambered break-open.. Even if the 9.3x74 is quite  a bit more $$ it seems like an excellent choice... better than I have come up with!!   good job.. MV

Offline MikeP

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Re: 45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2006, 10:38:30 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I didn't have an opportunity to use those cigar-sized cases on game last year, but I probably will use them this year. Just too many things going on last year.

I checked my shooting log and found that I am still using the same set of 20 cases that I first fireformed. I have had no case failures yet, and each has been reloaded 16 times at this point. So, the cases are certainly holding up well.

The powders I have used thus far have been Blue Dot, Lil Gun and IMR4198. The bullets I've used are 250 and 300 gr. Hornady HPXTP jacketed, and cast lead using a 332 gr Lyman mould. All have shot very well, and any of my loads would get the job done on just about any big game in the US.

These are heavy-hitting suckers, on both sides of the gun. The powders ignite quite well, burn completely, and provide fine accuracy which is far superior to the shorter cases in this long, long, long chamber.

Although I didn't use the solid bullets on game yet, I did use the barrel with a reloaded brass shotshell and the choke last year. I killed a big ole fox squirrel which came by my stand about 30 yards away. As I've said before, this is a versatile weapon!

Offline MikeP

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Re: 45/410 Contender = 11.4x74R Wildcat
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2006, 12:39:58 PM »
This thread has pictures of my TC and cigar cartridges:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=2858