Graybeard Outdoors (GBO Reloaded)
Rifle and Optics Forums => CVA and Knight Rifles, Shotguns and Muzzle loaders => Topic started by: quickdtoo on February 05, 2007, 02:05:11 PM
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TGS has some in stock, including 2 models in 45 Colt!!
Tim
http://thegunsource.com/store/item.aspx?PID=62905
CORRECTION: This isn't a 45 Colt, it's a 45 cal muzzleloader! :-\
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I couldn't find them Quick.Mac want's some pictures posted,but the batteries or down on my camera and I've got them on charge.Well as most of you know,I posted that my 243 was shooting the 100 gr. Corlokts at a little less than 1/2" at 54 yds.with a not so steady rest.I tested the 80 gr.corlokts the next day and they were about the same.So I took the 25 yr. old Redfield off (that had been on my 300 Wby.for many,many shots)and replaced it with a 6X24X44 target scope and things really improved
Well I finally found my rear sand bag,and shot a 3 shot group with 70gr.bullets. They all went into the same hole.Then it was time for me to go hog hunting(3 pm.)so I stopped on a pipeline and set the target up for a little over 100 yd. shot(126 lazered yds.) it punched the paper exactly 2" high and the center was 1 1/2" left. The 2 shot group measured 1.2" but I also had a 15 to 20 gusty mile per hour crosswind.Both bullets hit the crossline on the target which would give about 1 to 2 tenths spread vertical and 1.2 horiizaonal spread. The load was a 70 gr. Speer and 46.3 grs of IMR 4350,which is 2 or 3 grs. above max in some books and .7 gr. below max in my old lyman book.The primer's showed no sign whatsoever of flatning and there was no sign's anywhere on the case. I also shot those 126 yd. shots of the hood of my Blazer.
Is there someone out there that can tell me why the factory loads and the hand loads are not flatning the primer's even a little bit.I've never seen this before. Mac seem's to think it's the tight chamber's.(Alright Fred M what's your opinion?)
Judgeing by the way the 70's shot with the rear bag in place (with and without the bag) The cheap factory Rem.corlokts are going to go well under 1" now.The scope on 24 pr. show'ed me exactly how much I was moving and the rear bag solved that problem.
Also there was very very little muzzle lift while shooting,it moved almost strait back to my shoulder.Very comfortable to shoot.I have about 100 rds. through it now and it's still very tight. After about 40 rds. I cleaned it with Hoppe's no. 9 ,letting it set for about 15 min.and after I got all the Hoppe's out (4 patch's ) the fifth came out perfectly clean. The bore has a very smooth finish and there's no need for Flitzing it.
I'll give it a run through the chron when and if I stop hunting with it long enough. (I'm about to give Mac a heart attack by not working up some 100 gr. partitions and Rel. 22) But I'm going to try a 200 yd. neck shot on a hog first.
Okay Bamasnyper its your turn. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Digger
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Ya have to choose Connecticut Valley Arms from the drop down....
http://thegunsource.com/store/item.aspx?PID=62905
http://thegunsource.com/store/item.aspx?PID=63312
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Here's some pics from the CVA website.
Tim
http://cva.com/products/rifle_optelite_center.htm
(http://cva.com/images/2006_rifles/rifle_collage/optima_elite_center.jpg)
(http://www.cva.com/images/2006_rifles/rifle_collage/optima_pro_209.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/quickdtoo/CVA/CVAOptimaElite.jpg)
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So I take it that all of their rifle barrels are equipped with open sights and drill and tapped?
These are looking better and better....
-Aaron
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It sure looks that way, I couldn't find a pic of one with a scope, although they have a pic of their scope base and rings in the catalog, looks just like a Warne Encore base and single screw rings.
Tim
http://cva.com/docs/cva_catalog_2007.pdf
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The base's are very thick looking and attach with 4 screws. The rings look like Warne's to me and are not quick detachable. Digger
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I had Sportsmans Warehouse check on prices, they charge shipping on special order guns which the Optima Elite is, they don't stock it at all, $405 shipped + tax for the 7mm-08!!! ::)
Tim
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$405 shipped for the 7mm-08!!!
I'd ask them if they were gonna kiss me first. ;D
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How different is the receiver from the Optima ? I have never seen an elite.
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$405 shipped for the 7mm-08!!!
I'd ask them if they were gonna kiss me first. ;D
I felt like telling him they could kiss a part of me!!! :o
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I don't know if it is the same you have been talking about. Whittaker Guns show a CVA Optima Elite 7mm-08 in the used gun section for 249.00.
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So I take it that all of their rifle barrels are equipped with open sights and drill and tapped?
These are looking better and better....
-Aaron
The complete rifles come with the open sites...and they are drilled and tapped for the bases...I found out...that the accessory barrels do not come with any sites or scope rails...You can order them from CVA though..The rings & base combo's cost $29.95...and the 1pc base cost $12.95...or $15.95 for the 2 camo types ...The rings separate are $16.95 blue or silver...and $26.95 for the 2 camo types... and... for an extra $11.95...you can make their stanard rings into the Quick Release type for blue or silver...or $13.95 for both camo types available...Nice options..and reasonable..http://www.durasight.com/z2_alloy/scope_rings.html (http://www.durasight.com/z2_alloy/scope_rings.html)
Mac
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So I take it that all of their rifle barrels are equipped with open sights and drill and tapped?
These are looking better and better....
-Aaron
The complete rifles come with the open sites...and they are drilled and tapped for the bases...I found out...that the accessory barrels do not come with any sites or scope rails.......
Mac
Interesting. I like the options being made here.
I did notice that your 308 barrel was clean, without sights. Looks good by the way.
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I went to Whittaker Guns this afternoon to see what was going to stir my interest for my next firearm. They had quite a few Elites in stock and I must say I came away impressed. I thought they shouldered really well and seemed very balanced. I thought the Real Tree camo looked really good but I equally liked the black fibergrip. They had three combos in stock along with a few centerfires. They probably had at least a dozen in stock including the muzzle loaders. I just might go with one when I go back next week.
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I went to Whittaker Guns this afternoon to see what was going to stir my interest for my next firearm. They had quite a few Elites in stock and I must say I came away impressed. I thought they shouldered really well and seemed very balanced. I thought the Real Tree camo looked really good but I equally liked the black fibergrip. They had three combos in stock along with a few centerfires. They probably had at least a dozen in stock including the muzzle loaders. I just might go with one when I go back next week.
I think you'll be well pleased with one of the combo's...I know I am pleased with mine...even though it wasn't a combo when I bought it...but with multiple barrels and the street price on them...they are going to be the ones to get..
Mac
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Quick after handling the Elite it is on my list of must have rilfes and sure will fit nicely with my other front stuffers. Plus a 300Win barrlel will sure make a nice elk rifle as well. I'll have one before the summer is ou. Where can I get the extra barrels? Jess
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I just bought a used 7mm-08 from Whittakers for $269 shipped, will be looking for a thumbhole stock for it most likely, but I'll give it a shot ;D with the syn "ugly" stock first to see if I can warm up to it!! :D
Tim
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You can get them from several places on line..Do an internet search for them...here's a few places
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_218 (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_218)
http://www.cva.com/products/rifle_barrels.htm (http://www.cva.com/products/rifle_barrels.htm)
http://consumer.gzanders.com/itemlist.php?classid=CVAOEB (http://consumer.gzanders.com/itemlist.php?classid=CVAOEB)
http://shop.shooterscatalog.com (http://shop.shooterscatalog.com)
Mac
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quick ...
I was holding that very rifle yesterday when I was at Whittakers. This is a nice family owned gunshop that does big business for this area. I almost traded for that rifle yesterday as I have a .300wsm model 70 that I just really have no use for anymore. I think you will be pleased with what you get as it looked pretty good to me. I am getting swayed here a little toward the Elites. I might go for a combo ... just not sure. Whittakers is about 65 miles from my house so I'll be going back next week to check it all out again.
They also have a pretty good selection of Handi's including a BC Classic and a Golden Buffalo BC in 45/70. The BC was only $321.00 and the Golden BC I think was $430.00. I was looking at lever actions, Tikkas, Handi's, and the Elites. They have a great inventory of handguns and knives also.
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Thanks bjm, that's great news!! ;) I had checked their new gun inventory before, but they didn't list any CVAs, after you mentioned being there yesterday, I checked last night and they had a used one and also a new one or 2 in the blackpowder listing including a .30-06, called this am, and bought the 7mm-08. ;D A new one here at the only source I've found for them so far is well over $400 for the same model. :-\
Tim
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Tim ...
Their website doesn't list a tenth of what they have. Someone told me a couple of weeks ago, their inventory was like 1.5 million. If you look at the date their website was last updated, it is usually months behind. I have another friend who has a much smaller gunshop but a very nice one. I usually buy from him but his prices do not compete very well with Whittakers. Whittakers would have all of my business if it wasn't for that but friendship runs deep in my world.
The best thing to do would be to call and just tell them what you are looking for. If you ever need me to go take a look for you, I'd be happy to.
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Did ya happen to notice if they have the Optima Elite barrels there?? If so, I'll give em another call and see if they have a .300Win Mag later when it comes out.
thx,
Tim
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I did not see any individual barrels for the Elite and I did not ask. The only barrels I saw were shotgun barrels though they had forearms for the Elites if someone needed one. I looked at the TC Pro Hunter and it is nice but not at that price. I like the thumbhole stock too. I got a late start yesterday for Whittakers or I would have had more time to look.
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Thanks! ;) I forgot to mention, was gonna, but ::)....Whittakers has a tremendously good reputation at RFC, that's where I first learned of them, almost bought my CZ452 American 17hmr from them about 3yrs ago, but just happened to find one locally, or I would have.
Tim
http://whittakerguns.com/
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BJM is right about Whittakers the place is for me is like a kid going into a candy store. The web site seems to be farley updaded on the used guns, but if you realey want to know what they have is to pick the phone up and call. I just talked to them today about a gun and here I am stuck in a wheel cheir for at least two more mo. maybe three.
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Tim ...
I bought that same CZ 17HMR (beautiful wood) for my son for Christmas a few years back. That is one fine rifle. I have the Marlin 17V and I like it okay but that CZ shoots circle around it.
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I have two Marlins, a 917V and a 917VS, both wearing 6-20x40 Bushnell Scopechiefs, Rifle Basics triggers and laminated stocks, they hold their own against the CZ452, but the action of the CZ is superb in comparison, wood is just nice, but I like the lams too. The CZ wears an AS adjustable sear and Busnell Elite 4200 4-16x40, and is pillar bedded.
Tim
(https://www.gboreloaded.com/mhp/images/quickdtoo/917v917cz452.jpg)
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Questions about the Elites ...
The Elites have a different forearm for the MZL and the centerfires?
Any Elite barrel (mzl, shotgun, or centerfire) will fit on an Elite receiver?
Are thumbhole stocks available in the combos? Or do you have to buy a MZL and then buy a centerfire barrel for it?
Sorry, but now my interest is peaking?
Tim ... you have some nice 17HMR's there? Wow!
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Thanks!! I like em!!! ;D
I think I know the answers to all those questions, but Mac knows more and he's talked to the folks that know all the specifics, so I'll leave it for him later when he gets home from work ;).
Tim
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Questions about the Elites ...
The Elites have a different forearm for the MZL and the centerfires?
Any Elite barrel (mzl, shotgun, or centerfire) will fit on an Elite receiver?
Are thumbhole stocks available in the combos? Or do you have to buy a MZL and then buy a centerfire barrel for it?
Sorry, but now my interest is peaking?
Tim ... you have some nice 17HMR's there? Wow!
To answer your questions...
Yes...the fore arms are different..the regular rifle fore arm..doesn't have the cut out for the ram rod and retainer inside..
Yes...the barrels for all Elites are fully interchangeable with the same super tight tolerances..MZ to center fire..blued to stainless..
Yes..the thumb hole stocks are available for all models and combo's...The laminate version is still being perfected...and will be available later on..
I fully understand your curiosity...I too was very curious...I took one apart in the store..and put it back together...Shouldered it..and felt the weight in between my hands as it should be...Heard the lock up...and I new right then and there I was going to own one...They are natural pointers...and I can't hardly wait till I have a 12ga & 20 ga to go hunting with ...plus all the other barrels that is available now..and those coming out very soon...
Mac
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Thanks Mac ...
I did everything you did in the gunshop except take one apart. That is pretty cool. I, too, feel that it's weight is just right and it balances perfect for me and I am talking about everyone I tried. I haven't owned a mzl for 25 years or since I bought one of those Hawken 50 cal kits and put it together. Tim's reference to "browning a barrel" in another forum here at GBO's brought back those memories. I do not know a thing about modern mzl but I still like the idea of a combo 50 cal mzl and a 7mm-08 in a thumbhole stock ... wow. If the rifles are capable of shooting sub-MOA, then I would be in heaven. I even liked the sling that came with them and for me that is not normal as I do not care for slings too much.
I have a .300wsm Win Model 70 Super Shadow that I am going to sale or trade. I'll then get an Elite setup. I was going to get my first 7mm-08 in a Tikka T3 but that can wait.
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I don't think your going to be very pleased with the Elites...Digger has been getting some pretty good groups with his 243 & 30-06 with a few hand loads thru his..and I've gotten a couple dynamite groups with my 243 with just firing 2 factory loads thru it...I do hope to get out when the wind isn't at near hurricane force and try some good hand loads...I shot 1/2 box of the 55 grain Winchester Supreme SBT's...they did ok...nothing to write home about...and certainly would have dropped any varmint I hit with it..but with the winds as high as it was..It really moved that bullet around...and my rifle just may not like them either...so..it will be worth a try for handloading them and see...The other factory load I shot was Remington's higher priced ammo...the Premier 95grain AccuTip..I got a couple excellent 3 shot groups...which isn't indicative of the overall performance of the barrel...but it sure does show the potential of it..when the conditions are favorable...and I will be shooting it again with a few different loads..
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Mac11700/CVAOptima243groupsandNEF270Ultragro.jpg)
So... I can honestly say they are worth the money.....since this is straight out of the box performance...and a scope I really don't care for the more I shoot it....The 50 cal barrel is simply awesome with the Barnes TMZ bullets...It's going to be fun working up loads again with out all the hassle of tuning the rifle...and I will be putting some good glass on it to shoot with...the thick cross hair of the Simmons Atec I had on the 243 barrel just don't cut it for me....and these rifles are capable of shooting great if you can do your part..even in the wind....These rifles begs for good optics on them...and I intend to oblige them by doing just that...
Mac
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I am convinced about the Elites. I thank all of you for your responses and pictures.
Mac ...
The .243 is one of my favorite calibers and the one I use for coyote hunting. I liked the consistency of your groups under any conditions ... especially windy ones. I use the 85gr Sierra BTHP in my Ruger M77 Mark II. I think I will go with the 7mm-08 for the Elite along with the 50cal mzl if I get the combo. I'll try the Barnes TMZ bullets first. I'll be asking more questions after the trade.
Thanks again...
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Nice groups and shooting Mac, ya can't ask for any better than that for out-of-the box accuracy for any rifle, and under those conditions, that's fantastic!! ;)
thx,
Tim
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Quick,
I know that you are a big handi fan, so which do you like better? CVA or Handi?
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I don't have a CVA yet, just bought a used one tho, won't have it for a week. From Mac's and Digger's experience, the CVA sounds like a good deal if you can get one for what they paid. The CVA dealer network is a bit spotty at this time, no one here sells the Optima Elite, but Handis are common, considering the diifference in price locally here at this time which is almost double the cost of a Handi, the Handi can be a pretty good buy usually, but may require some work to get the most out of it, but not always. I can mail order a new OE without a scope rail for about $320 w/ shipping and FFL, a Handi purchased locally is $220 which comes with a scope rail.
FWIW, I don't plan on selling any of my Handis if that counts for anything, I just made a deal on another SB2 Handi frame today, I have one centefire barrel without a home!! ;D I also plan on ordering a .444 Marlin Handi as soon as my dealer's supplier gets one in stock, that will make #28!! ;)
Tim
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Quick,
I know that you are a big handi fan, so which do you like better? CVA or Handi?
Oh boy, I see a TC Encore vs H&R Handi rifle like thread in the making :o
http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,74391.0.html
I won't get rid of my Handis but I really want to give these Elites a try. The barrels seem to be of top quality, and the fit and tolerances seem to be excellent from all I hear. I can't locate one around here to check out though :-[ :'( Hey Tim where are you finding that price at?
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On the OE? Bud's for $282 plus shipping and FFL.....
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_218
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I ordered a Durasight 1-pc base today, Grafs and Midway both have it for less than $11, but Grafs shipping is only $3.95, guess who I ordered it from!!
Tim
http://www.grafs.com/grafs/search/product/87702
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=571886
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On the OE? Bud's for $282 plus shipping and FFL.....
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/36_218
Sorry Tim, I got in a rush :P
$280 seems reasonable. I got to locate one around here some where...
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That's what I was hoping for, a local source, but it didn't happen. :-\
Tim
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From Mac's and Digger's experience, the CVA sounds like a good deal if you can get one for what they paid.
Trust me...it is a good deal for what I paid ;D ;D ;D
And it is a good deal even if your paying $300 for them...When folks start realizing that...look for the prices to start going up...The old Supply & Demand thing...my advice is to get one before they do go up in price...
Mac
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Oh boy, I see a TC Encore vs H&R Handi rifle like thread in the making :o
[/quote]
No fear there. I would never pay the price for a TC, when CVA and Handi are around. I really like the multi barrle thing and just wanted to see the difference. I the handi prices but I like CVA for not having to send the frame in for a barrel fit. Trying to get all the info I can before plopping down some money.
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Oh boy, I see a TC Encore vs H&R Handi rifle like thread in the making :o
No fear there. I would never pay the price for a TC, when CVA and Handi are around. I really like the multi barrle thing and just wanted to see the difference. I the handi prices but I like CVA for not having to send the frame in for a barrel fit. Trying to get all the info I can before plopping down some money.
[/quote]
J/K with ya ;D
I am kinda in the same boat as well. Though the quality work they put into the barrels seem to be what's really swaying me. I hope in time CVA can have a library of calibers as NEF/H&R does, or at least close.
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Well considering the elite is pretty new they are adding new ones pretty quickly. When I first saw it on the website last year, there was only 4 or 5 cal. They have grown in numbers!
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;)
I am kinda in the same boat as well. Though the quality work they put into the barrels seem to be what's really swaying me. I hope in time CVA can have a library of calibers as NEF/H&R does, or at least close.
In time provided sales stay steady...they will have what the Encores have for barrel selection... ;) They are new...with just 13,000 put out in the first year...Plus having to scraped all of those from the 1st shipment...even though they all were in SAMMI spec's...they weren't up to Ed Shilens specifications.That put them back a spell...and they are still playing catch up...The are are track for the new calibers coming out in a month or so...
Mac
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Been doing alot of reading. I might just have to get one. I wonder if they can shoot sub moa.
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Yup...they have great potential...and I am quite sure they will shoot as good if not better than most other single shots..http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,111017.msg1098349143.html#msg1098349143 (http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,111017.msg1098349143.html#msg1098349143)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Mac11700/CVAOptima243groupsandNEF270Ultragro.jpg)
Even the Muzzle loaders...not bad for a newbie ;)...http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,112267.0.html (http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/smf/index.php/topic,112267.0.html)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/Mac11700/CVAOptima.jpg)
Mac
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Has any one put a Bipod on one yet?
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Hmmm...not yet...but it should be easy enough to do...
Mac
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Interesting someone would bring the subject of a bipod up. I was thinking about that last night. What is everyone's preference, Harris in 6-9"?
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I am curious how well they shoot off Bi-Pods as well. If and when anyone tries it out, please post back your results.
Sense we are asking questions, can someone give me an idea of the general thickness of the Begera barrels from the muzzle? General comparison you know ;D
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The muzzle dia. on mine is .740" . I did try a bipod on mine but I had to use a wood screw in swivel stud,and it came loose after a few shots. The sling holder will not accept a bipod. When I find the proper nut and washer for the other kind of stud,I'm going to mount 2 of them. Digger
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Hey thanks for the info Digger. And congrats on the -06. Sounds like you have a shooter there. I look forward to hearing more about how the Bi-Pods work for you as well.
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If I ever get a CF forend for mine and make a trip to the range, I'll try a Harris, I tried to order the $23 forend from Bud's, shipping came to $16, so I didn't! :'(
Tim
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If I ever get a CF forend for mine and make a trip to the range, I'll try a Harris, I tried to order the $23 forend from Bud's, shipping came to $16, so I didn't! :'(
Tim
Hey Tim, dont know much about the bipods. Is the only way to mount them by using the same nut as the sling swivel? Not sure if I am fired up about that idea.
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They're made to mount on the sling stud, they have 2 claws the fit inside the stud, then as you tighten the bipod, it forces the claws to clamp on the stud. The Shooter's Ridge bipod that Walmart sells, and the Outers bipod available here and there, are both clones of the Harris and cost about half as much, they're a little shiney and the material is slightly lighter, but they work just fine, I have both. There are other mounting options shown on the Harris web site.
Tim
http://www.harrisbipods.com/
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I have the bi-pod from walmart. Damn thing fell apart on me last season ;D
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I have the bi-pod from walmart. Damn thing fell apart on me last season ;D
Maybe Chinese, maybe not.
I have 3 Harris Bipods, one since the 70's & no trouble.
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Yup, chinese.... ya get whatcha pay for, usually!! :D
Tim
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I assume if you are going to use it off a bench you need the shortest possible. Is that usually the 6-9" model. Tim, by using the same lug as the sling, does it interfere with the sling use at all? Is there pros and cons to different mountings?
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Follow-up question...sorry. Preference between a fixed bi-pod and one that swivels?
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All my bipods have a stud on them to attach a sling to. If you're shooting on uneven ground, the swivel is great, the legs don't need to be adjusted to eliminate cant, but for bench work, the fixed are better for me.
Tim
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I assume if you are going to use it off a bench you need the shortest possible. Is that usually the 6-9" model. Tim, by using the same lug as the sling, does it interfere with the sling use at all? Is there pros and cons to different mountings?
6-9" works good on the bench, but i prefer the 9-13" & you can change the ht. of the seat or bags, it's a non issue for this 3" diff.
In some areas of high grass, the next size up is nice & I have done that with success. But with playing with all of the heights & Var./Big Game hunting with the various heights, I have settled on the 9-13" mounted on the rifle & Stoney
Point shooting stiks on my hip, coupled with a good sling. All of my bases are covered with the 3. I have a poly filled bean bag that I use that I can pull out of my BDU type pocket when hunting out West. I use this under the Buttstock when the bipod is engaged. My groups are getting closer & closer to what I can do from the bench with this & you can too. When the grass is too tall which sometimes happens, I can set and use my shooting sticks & with some sling pressure to boot. This is a little better than using the sling alone, which can be dang good with practice.
I like the fixed with the leg notches & with practice you can work one leg back & forth quickly to make very slight adjustments. If & to me a big IF is the swivel can be the best of all IF you invest in a pod lock.
When my rifles only have one stud. I use the swivel std/hole provided on the Harris.
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Thanks for your the suggestion..the little longer length does make sense.